I, Maha Sapta Sindhu

[PureAryan]

This is where you're wrong. Just because major historical remains are largely in your side doesnt mean that you have ownership rights to it. The Indic culture wasnt limited to the parts now in Pakistan. Claiming it to be exclusively Pakistani and then associating with it the later "Two nation Theory" just because major sites excavated uptill now have been in Pakistan is a huge folly. What it alludes to is a deep sense of insecurity.

You guys are a separate nation and nobody is trying to gobble you up, inspite of what your history books tell you. Just dont try and gain exclusive rights to things that are the heritage of the entire sub-continent.

I live in Australia, almost every reseach on history in south/central asian is being done on Pakistan not on bharat, Pakistan has a 9000 year old recorded history. West historians dont look at pakistan as part of sub continent, the americans have put together pakistan in greator middle east , pakistani histroians try to put pakistan in central asia so there is no sub-continent/ south asian thing

 

[GUNNER]

Brother Gunner, indians lose all sense of perspective when it comes to our history, because bharat does not have similar riches in artefacts and greatness, they become extremely eager to co-opt ours.

I don't agree Rafi. Pakistanis and Indians have a common history upto a certain point in time. To say this and this is theirs and this and this is not, is to me absolutely childish.

 

[Nalwa]

I live in Australia, almost every reseach on history in south/central asian is being done on Pakistan not on bharat, Pakistan has a 9000 year old recorded history. West historians dont look at pakistan as part of sub continent, the americans have put together pakistan in greator middle east , pakistani histroians try to put pakistan in central asia so there is no sub-continent/ south asian thing

Name a few? Your assertions have no meaning as I don't know you to be a well-known historian. From what I know, most of Pakistan is a part of South-Asia. KP and Balochistan are may be more West Asian or Central Asian but then again, thats debatable.

 

[PureAryan]

Name a few? Your assertions have no meaning as I don't know you to be a well-known historian. From what I know, most of Pakistan is a part of South-Asia. KP and Balochistan are may be more West Asian or Central Asian but then again, thats debatable.

Pakistani Mehrgarh civilization which lasted from 7000 BC to c. 2500 BC, followed by pakistani indus valley civilizaion 2500BC to 1500BC, followed by vedic aryans 1500BC to 600BC, after that there were several independent kingdom, point being is from 7000BC to 1200AD pakistan and bharat were united for only 100 years of mauryan empire out of 8800 years

 

[Nalwa]

Pakistani Mehrgarh civilization which lasted from 7000 BC to c. 2500 BC, followed by pakistani indus valley civilizaion 2500BC to 1500BC, followed by vedic aryans 1500BC to 600BC, after that there were several independent kingdom, point being is from 7000BC to 1200AD pakistan and bharat were united for only 100 years of mauryan empire out of 8800 years

Indus valley and Aryan remains have been uncovered on our side of the Punjab and Gujarat as well. Google the Lothal and Ropar sites. Maybe not as big as the Harappa sites but they are the same civilization.

Now Aryan besides the Mauryan kingdoms, there were Guptas and the Kushana kingdoms in ancient history. And you forgot about the Mughal times too. Pakistan and most of India was under the same rule in all of the above mentioned times.

 

[Rafi]

Just the land belongs to you. Not the cultural traits. And like it or not, only the deluded in your country like to believe these theories. Everybody else in the world doesn't believe it. So feel free to delude yourself.

The only people deluding themselves are indians, everything on our land belongs to us - that is the reality. Sada Pakistan, Sada Punjab, Sada Sindh, Sada Pukhtoon-kwa, Sada Kashmir, Sada Baluchistan.

Show what a Pakistani feels.

 

[Nalwa]

The only people deluding themselves are indians, everything on our land belongs to us - that is the reality. Sada Pakistan, Sada Punjab, Sada Sindh, Sada Pukhtoon-kwa, Sada Kashmir, Sada Baluchistan.

Show what a Pakistani feels.

YouTube - Sohna Pakistan - Jassi Lailpuria

Seen that video countless times. Are music videos being used to settle debates now? Give me a break.

 

[Rafi]

Seen that video countless times. Are music videos being used to settle debates now? Give me a break.

Good isn't it, it just shows that Pakistani Nationalism is present, even in our minorities.

The reality is that Pakistanis are, and have been largely separate from bharat for the vast majority of the 9,000 years of civilization.

 

[amigo]

i am fed up of such kind of debates. every one knows that a large mass of land known as indian subcontinent has more or less same cultural heritage. calling it indian culture or pakistani culture is act of foolishness.

 

[PureAryan]

Indus valley and Aryan remains have been uncovered on our side of the Punjab and Gujarat as well. Google the Lothal and Ropar sites. Maybe not as big as the Harappa sites but they are the same civilization.

Now Aryan besides the Mauryan kingdoms, there were Guptas and the Kushana kingdoms in ancient history. And you forgot about the Mughal times too. Pakistan and most of India was under the same rule in all of the above mentioned times.

Gupta and pala have never extended into pakistan, pakistani historians have rejected any gangan valley originated empire ruling pakistan, Kushans and indus valley were only partly extended in Bharat, their capitals were in mainland pakistan. Indus valley also extended in turkmenistan, iran, afghanistan but the bulk of its area was in pakistan.
Kushan empire also extended in tajiistan, afghanistan, iran, uzbekistan but the bulk of its area was in pakistan.
When the mughals came pakistan was part of central asia not bharat

 

[UnitedPak]

Just the land belongs to you. Not the cultural traits. And like it or not, only the deluded in your country like to believe these theories. Everybody else in the world doesn't believe it. So feel free to delude yourself.

What on earth would you classify Pakistani culture as? Arab? Where did Pakistani cultures (Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashtun, Baloch) come from? Thin air perhaps? You seem to have a big problem with Islams influence on our cultures but no issue with Sikh influence on Punjabi culture.

There is no rational way you can go about this. The only word to describe the mass migration theories and imaginary Iranic/Indic border is delusion. The Indus region itself is a mixture of cultures and identities and has a lot more shared history than a "united subcontinent". Hence we can and will refer to it as ancient Pakistan.

Indians claiming Indus history is just as absurd as Pakistanis claiming Tamil history.

 

[amigo]

What on earth would you classify Pakistani culture as? Arab? Where did Pakistani cultures (Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashtun, Baloch) come from? Thin air perhaps? You seem to have a big problem with Islams influence on our cultures but no issue with Sikh influence on Punjabi culture.

There is no rational way you can go about this. The only word to describe the mass migration theories and imaginary Iranic/Indic border is delusion. The Indus region itself is a mixture of cultures and identities and has a lot more shared history than a "united subcontinent". Hence we can and will refer to it as ancient Pakistan.

Indians claiming Indus history is just as absurd as Pakistanis claiming Tamil history.

for ur kind information indus valley civilization was streched from indian punjab to pak punjab to sind till gujrat. so that makes it common heritage.

 

[Joe Shearer]

There was no strategy or design or message in posting this article Joe. It was nothing but another opinion on what you call the 'origin myth' to me. I may not agree to all the writer says, but he has the right to say what he thinks. As you say, the ground reality or the broader history will not change.

I do understand that, far more than you think. I've gone on record on PTH with an almost identical analysis, except that at that time this Indus Man theme hadn't become such a monotonous top-of-the-pops.

Hitting the messenger now..are we? Least expected, i must say, from you. I hope you explain if i'am the fanboy beacuse i feel offended.

You must be joking, because you're one of the last persons I would accuse of fanboy behaviour. If you want to figure out whom I'm referring to, look at the other threads; they aren't too far below that comment of yours I'm replying, btw.

I have gone through the threads you mentioned and i ve devoted time to your answers. You do not need to answer anew with full facts and figures as I do not require full and complete satisfaction.

You could 've simply ignored it to show your disagreement.

Do you not see what this is leading to? Do I have to spell it out?

 

[gubbi]

It is the search of identity that motivates such "historians"..
An identity that would have been forged properly had Jinnah lived long enough..
unfortunately.. it is only half complete.

Quote for truth.

People have gotten so delusional that they are now claiming a 9000 yr history for Pakistan! Being clubbed with "Greater Middle East" is not a matter of pride, but more like a easy political classification considering the cause of most conflicts around the areas.

What is unfortunate, is this particular lack of a mature identity, serves as fodder for certain people with a sinister power lust to divert that want and misdirect it as a collective hatred of India &/or Non-Muslims.

 

[SQ8]

Quote for truth.

People have gotten so delusional that they are now claiming a 9000 yr history for Pakistan! Being clubbed with "Greater Middle East" is not a matter of pride, but more like a easy political classification considering the cause of most conflicts around the areas.

What is unfortunate, is this particular lack of a mature identity, serves as fodder for certain people with a sinister power lust to divert that want and misdirect it as a collective hatred of India &/or Non-Muslims.

But.. then again..for all possible purposes..Why has India not honored a Muslim ruler in its history..(leave the misguided Mughals aside)..
The rulers of Mysore deserve their attention..
All of those do who stood up to the British..
My bone of contention with all of those who imply India embraces all History..is why is the MahaBharta the only source for inspiration?
True..it is a historical piece solely attributed to the hINDUS(the people..).. Yet.. it a part of history..and the history of the Sub-continent is far richer than that..
The Sikh religion originated at a latter stage in India's history..yet it gets more attention than the Muslims..
My point here is not religious ..but that India(congress/BJP) too is not completely free of blame in alienating an identity for Muslims within its society...
The Muslim that Drinks, Fornicates,Parties or is a criminal is widely shown..
Not one that embraces both his religion..and culture.
There is the INS Khurkri and Kirpan..
but nothing that a Muslim can relate to..
Something that he can say was his contribution to India.
On the contrary..
Most Pakistani systems are named on Islamic history.. possibly a sense of forced identity.. yet at least it gives one to a section..
But is Jahangir only a Pakistani legacy??
Should there not be an INS jahangir?..
By ignoring the Muslim History of India.. Indian leadership is partly to blame for enforcing the two nation identity here.