'I am an Indian Muslim, not a Pakistani' - BBC News

[Shorisrip]

No you don't. You come from East of South Asia, which is far away from Pakistan.

Secondly Muhajirs make a small percentage of Pakistani population.

Thirdly Pathans in Pakistan have more in common with Punjabis in Lahore than Pathans in Afghanistan.

We Pakistanis have nothing in common with Indians.

Alright dude, whatever you say, even your "Quaid e Azam" was a Gujarati, and your first prime minister was from Haryana. Pakistan was the Muslim version of India, for Indian Muslims originally.

Btw, I'm not saying that the loyalty of a Pakhtun belongs to Afghanistan or anything similar. But, anyway, I'm not going to argue with you, so don't quote me.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Who are these 20%? I'm well versed on genetics, and even Pashtuns fall between the South Asian spectrum, and believe it or not are closer genetically to Punjabis and Sindhis than they are to Persians from Iran. Your language does not define your genetics.

I've been all over Pakistan more than 30 times. I have been to Iran twice. Iran is a country we share a border with. A country we have had a history & connection with for at least 3000 years. I know the ground realities of both the Pakistani and Iranian races. We share more in common with the people next door to us than with a group of people more than 2500 kms away from us.

Calling someone south Asian doesn't make them the same race as everyone else classified as such. South Asian is a term used by rhe British to lump all "Brown" people together for their convenience.....

If we now start calling the Congolese South Asian then does that make them the same race as indians and bangladeshis?.....

Alright dude, whatever you say, even your "Quaid e Azam" was a Gujarati, and your first prime minister was from Haryana. Pakistan was the Muslim version of India, for Indian Muslims originally.

Btw, I'm not saying that the loyalty of a Pakhtun belongs to Afghanistan or anything similar. But, anyway, I'm not going to argue with you, so don't quote me.

So someone that belongs to a completely different race to the Pakistani people and is more than 2500 kms away from us is telling us about our heritage????...........

PS Benazir Bhutto was of Iranian/Persian origin. Is Pakistan now a part of the Persian empire?.........

 

[Shorisrip]

I've been all over Pakistan more than 30 times. I have been to Iran twice. Iran is a country we share a border with. A country we have had a history & connection with for at least 3000 years. I know the ground realities of both the Pakistani and Iranian races. We share more in common with the people next door to us than with a group of people more than 2500 kms away from us.

Calling someone south Asian doesn't make them the same race as everyone else classified as such. South Asian is a term used by rhe British to lump all "Brown" people together for their convenience.....

If we now start calling the Congolese South Asian then does that make them the same race as indians and bangladeshis?.....

Phenotype =/= Genotype. Dude, do you have any idea about genetics? If not, there's no point arguing with you. My people, the Bengalis for e.g. are genetically closer to Tamils, than to a Punjabi even though Punjabi and bengali are related languages. Anyway, it seems you have no background in genetics, so its a waste of time for me.

I've been all over Pakistan more than 30 times. I have been to Iran twice. Iran is a country we share a border with. A country we have had a history & connection with for at least 3000 years. I know the ground realities of both the Pakistani and Iranian races. We share more in common with the people next door to us than with a group of people more than 2500 kms away from us.

Calling someone south Asian doesn't make them the same race as everyone else classified as such. South Asian is a term used by rhe British to lump all "Brown" people together for their convenience.....

If we now start calling the Congolese South Asian then does that make them the same race as indians and bangladeshis?.....





So someone that belongs to a completely different race to the Pakistani people and is more than 2500 kms away from us is telling us about our heritage????...........

PS Benazir Bhutto was of Iranian/Persian origin. Is Pakistan now a part of the Persian empire?.........

Lol dude, in 71, Bengalis were the majority (at 55%) in Pakistan. Go live in your own bubble.

 

[SabzShaheen]

Lol......lol......lol.........
indian Punjabis are very different to Pakistani Punjabis. I know many Pushtuns from Pakistan and I hardly notice the difference between them and Pakistani Punjabis. I see them as Pakistani. That's all. I feel 0 connection to indian Punjabis and do not relate to them at all.

you're switching between indian and pakistani and muslim and non muslims. there's pretty much no difference between a pakistani punjabi muslim and indian punjabi muslim whereas pakistani punjabi muslims are relatively more different to pakistani pashtun muslims.

Whatever the reason for the creation of Pakistan

too many people say things along this line. "Whatever". We should just disregard Jinnah's vision of Pakistan and focus on a new one right? It's not like he knew what he was doing. We need to know what the reason for the creation of Pakistan was else we'll be stuck in a national identity crisis which is one of the main reasons why we're struggling today.

it's ultimate destiny has become as a safe space for a unique race of people, with a unique culture and way of life.
If Islam is a binding force then there should be 1 country stretching from Tunisia to Indonesia. There isn't and there is a reason for this.

Muslims are one nation as Jinnah said. There's a difference between nation and country. Pakistan was meant to be a regional safe space for Muslims of South Asia, but we Pakistanis are still part of the global Muslim nation. Jinnah argued that Muslims were separate nation, not separate ethnicities.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Wasn't Bangladesh part of Pakistan before? Or do you believe it was always a separate country? Your logic could be applied to any part of Pakistan now and the claim could be made that it is always a separate country. Bangladesh became separate because of ethnic nationalism which was used by India in the same way it is being used now in Balochistan and other places. If these places became independent would you claim they were also never part of Pakistan and we share very little with them?


You can argue with Jinnah's reasoning if you want. He's the one who said Muslims are one nation. Anyway, there is a difference between a nation and a country. One nation can have many countries.


I know that. So if Sindh became part of India would you argue that they were always different from us?


I'm no genetics expert but I bet every ethnicity in the region is very genetically similar when collectively compared to central asia for example. Also, our culture is similar so genetics is not the only thing.


So? Speaking wise they are pretty much the same and lots of people in India speak Urdu anyway


And I've told you already that that should be a good enough reason for us to identify as a single nation, according to Jinnah.

bangladesh is over 2500 kms away from Pakistan and they are a COMPLETELY different race to the Pakistani people. OF COURSE bangladesh had to be created. We have nothing in common with them. That is the same reason why Pakistan was created.

Phenotype =/= Genotype. Dude, do you have any idea about genetics? If not, there's no point arguing with you. My people, the Bengalis for e.g. are genetically closer to Tamils, than to a Punjabi even though Punjabi and bengali are related languages. Anyway, it seems you have no background in genetics, so its a waste of time for me.




Lol dude, in 71, Bengalis were the majority (at 55%) in Pakistan. Go live in your own bubble.

Okay so bring your genetic evidence that Pakistanis are racially/genetically the same as bengalis and indians. Post some irrefutable reliable evidence.

Prove the following wrong:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.th...yan-migration-debate/article19090301.ece/amp/

you're switching between indian and pakistani and muslim and non muslims. there's pretty much no difference between a pakistani punjabi muslim and indian punjabi muslim whereas pakistani punjabi muslims are relatively more different to pakistani pashtun muslims.


too many people say things along this line. "Whatever". We should just disregard Jinnah's vision of Pakistan and focus on a new one right? It's not like he knew what he was doing. We need to know what the reason for the creation of Pakistan was else we'll be stuck in a national identity crisis which is one of the main reasons why we're struggling today.


Muslims are one nation as Jinnah said. There's a difference between nation and country. Pakistan was meant to be a regional safe space for Muslims of South Asia, but we Pakistanis are still part of the global Muslim nation. Jinnah argued that Muslims were separate nation, not separate ethnicities.

Lol.....lol.....lol.... indian Punjabi Muslim.....
They are even a MUCH MUCH smaller minority then Pakistanis who have a Persian/Arabic or Turkish origin. So we should connect ourselves to india because 0.001% of their population have some sort of racial connection to Pakistan........

 

[SabzShaheen]

bangladesh is over 2500 kms away from Pakistan and they are a COMPLETELY different race to the Pakistani people. OF COURSE bangladesh had to be created. We have nothing in common with them. That is the same reason why Pakistan was created.

The modern concept of "race" is a social construct. "Pakistani" was never an identifiable race before the partition and its identity as a separate race is still vague. The traditional definition of race is synonymous with ethnicity hence it could be argued that each ethnic group in the regional countries like Pakistan is a separate race which according to your logic, warrants the need for a separate country. As you've accepted, very similar reasoning led to the formation of Bangladesh which objectively benefitted India and was detrimental to the Muslim nation. Also remember that Bengalis were one of the largest ethnic groups, if not the largest, of Pakistan before the partition, so it could be argued they were more Pakistani than any other ethnic group and had East Pakistan not separated, this social construct of an identifiable Pakistani race would be very different today

 

[Shorisrip]

bangladesh is over 2500 kms away from Pakistan and they are a COMPLETELY different race to the Pakistani people. OF COURSE bangladesh had to be created. We have nothing in common with them. That is the same reason why Pakistan was created.






Okay so bring your genetic evidence that Pakistanis are racially/genetically the same as bengalis and indians. Post some irrefutable reliable evidence.

Prove the following wrong:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.th...yan-migration-debate/article19090301.ece/amp/

I've never even said that. I've said that Pashtuns are closer to other Pashtuns (whether from Afg/Pak), than they are to Punjabis who are closer to Punjabis (East/West), but they are still both closer to each other genetically than to Iranians (who the Pashtun has linguistic affinities with), or to a person from UP (despite Punjabi/Urdu falling under the same roof).

And, no, I've seen that paper way back ago on anthrogenica. I'm not even sure how anything said in that paper is related to what I've said.

I'll leave this PCA plot here to visualise this better.

Anyway, I'm not in for an argument where I may potentially lose brain cells, so lets "agree to disagree".

 

[SabzShaheen]

Lol.....lol.....lol.... indian Punjabi Muslim.....
They are even a MUCH MUCH smaller minority then Pakistanis who have a Persian/Arabic or Turkish origin. So we should connect ourselves to india because 0.001% of their population have some sort of racial connection to Pakistan........

Pakistani punjabi muslims share more with northern indian muslims than they do with pakistani balochi, pakistani pashtun muslims etc

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

The modern concept of "race" is a social construct. "Pakistani" was never an identifiable race before the partition and its identity as a separate race is still vague. The traditional definition of race is synonymous with ethnicity hence it could be argued that each ethnic group in the regional countries like Pakistan is a separate race which according to your logic, warrants the need for a separate country. As you've accepted, very similar reasoning led to the formation of Bangladesh which objectively benefitted India and was detrimental to the Muslim nation.

LOL......LOL.......LOL.......
Race is a social construct??????...... So Aboriginies are the same as Blue-eyed Blonde Germans from Munich.............

 

[El Sidd]

Pakistani punjabi muslims share more with northern indian muslims than they do with pakistani balochi, pakistani pashtun muslims etc

Tum uske ek hath me soraj rakh do or ek hath me chand. Wo phir bhi nahi manega bhai.

Usko gora chaiye. Gora. Kanchi ankhon wala daadhi ho to behtar hai per zarori nahi.

Khair hai. Har mulk me hote hain. Apne to apna personal jihad bana liya.

Jaan diyyo miyaan saab.

 

[SabzShaheen]

LOL......LOL.......LOL.......
Race is a social construct??????...... So Aboriginies are the same as Blue-eyed Blonde Germans from Munich.............

Do you even read my posts before replying bhai? I said that the traditional definition of race is synonymous with ethnicity whilst you are defining something that is a social construct.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I've never even said that. I've said that Pashtuns are closer to other Pashtuns (whether from Afg/Pak), than they are to Punjabis who are closer to Punjabis (East/West), but they are still both closer to each other genetically than to Iranians (who the Pashtun has linguistic affinities with), or to a person from UP (despite Punjabi/Urdu falling under the same roof).

And, no, I've seen that paper way back ago on anthrogenica. I'm not even sure how anything said in that paper is related to what I've said.

I'll leave this PCA plot here to visualise this better.

Anyway, I'm not in for an argument where I may potentially lose brain cells, so lets "agree to disagree".

So Iran who is next door to Pakistan who shares a common province with us in Balouchistan, has no racial connection to us even though we have been interacting and intermarrying with one another for over 3000 years??????...........and someone who is 2500 kms away from us who has 0 connection to both Pakistan and Iran is suppose to know all of this????????............

 

[SabzShaheen]

Tum uske ek hath me soraj rakh do or ek hath me chand. Wo phir bhi nahi manega bhai.

Usko gora chaiye. Gora. Kanchi ankhon wala daadhi ho to behtar hai per zarori nahi.

Khair hai. Har mulk me hote hain. Apne to apna personal jihad bana liya.

Jaan diyyo miyaan saab.

maaf karrain leikin mujhe poori samaj nahi aaye (meri urdu bhot burri hai). ye sochain jo hazrat ke paas hain mujhe khatarnak lagti hain humare mulk ke liye

I've never even said that. I've said that Pashtuns are closer to other Pashtuns (whether from Afg/Pak), than they are to Punjabis who are closer to Punjabis (East/West), but they are still both closer to each other genetically than to Iranians (who the Pashtun has linguistic affinities with), or to a person from UP (despite Punjabi/Urdu falling under the same roof).

And, no, I've seen that paper way back ago on anthrogenica. I'm not even sure how anything said in that paper is related to what I've said.

I'll leave this PCA plot here to visualise this better.

Anyway, I'm not in for an argument where I may potentially lose brain cells, so lets "agree to disagree".

Very good map bro thanks for that. It evidences what we're tryna say very nicely

 

[Shorisrip]

So Iran who is next door to Pakistan who shares a common province with us in Balouchistan, has no racial connection to us even though we have been interacting and intermarrying with one another for over 3000 years??????...........and someone who is 2500 kms away from us who has 0 connection to Pakistan and Iran is suppose to know all of this????????............

Pakistanis have ASI in low quantities, that pull them southwards down the cline. I've never mentioned Balochis actually who are closer to other Balochis in Pakistan (obviously). But, majority of Persians live in the Northwest of Iran, and the bordering area between Pakistan and Iran are sparsely populated by deserts. They are mostly a neolithic derived population (i.e. Near eastern farmer). Anyway, this is the last time for real I'm going to reply to you. It just hurts me when people on the internet say stuff so ignorant.

 

[takeiteasy]

Hindus are made agitated by the RSS ideologists (extremists) and Hindus are told, that all their failures be it caste system or lack of unity are all because of some 300 years ago Mughals ruled them, or 7 decades back British ruled them. So, like monkeys tied on knots made to dance, the RSS rulers made them go through primitiveness and creates polarization. Otherwise, Muslims and Christians had not much problem until Nov 2014 when the Guj 2002 heroes were throned to power. India's Muslims are not Pakistani apologists in general. They are more patriotic than British shoelickers and continuous mafinaama writer like V D Savarkar, whose teachings are destroying India's religious tolerance and peaceful existence. http://stopfundinghate.org/resources/rssprimer.htm

Pakistan is a non-issue for most Muslims in India. Pakistan is a threat that is used by radical Hindus to question Muslim's patriotism towards his country. Another issue is, a Hindu see every Muslim as follower of Allah and Islamic prophet Muhammad. In RSS classes they teaches an offstage history of Islam and in that view, all Muslims are stereotyped as temperament similar to Bedouines and they (Hindutva) holds NO respect or tolerance to Islam. This has became very clear after the rightwing came into power. Same goes to Christianity, Buddhism - first being taught as a prostelyzing religion converting Hindus en masse and second one was blamed for eating out Hinduism centuries back preventing the dream of achieving Hindu Ummah which RSS dearly sees - the geographic region from Gandhar to Combodia under Akhand Bharat. Like extremist Muslims, these radicals also are no different, perhaps more aggressive. The rightwing Hindu view of Islam can be condensed in the contents of "Voice of India" - a book which got banned in the 80's.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Calcutta_Quran_Petition