Hypothetical - Can IAF be wiped out in 10 hour or 12 hours by PLAAF?

[pothead]

Hello Mr. pothead

Thanks for the detailed counter and explanation.

 

[KAL-EL]

Thanks for the detailed counter and explanation.

Just being randomly friendly.

 

[Vanamali]

lol we have our own set of satellites which give 24 hours high resolution pictures .
how many do you have ?

Why do you put such stupid questions. Don't you know Pakistan's war is China's war. All China's resources are at Pak's disposal. Xi is restrained by PMIK, else China would have liberated Kashmir...

I have removed some posts. You cannot see them.

I am giving reminders because some members are not getting it.

Aadat say bajboor

Indian topics tend to degrade into trolling sessions really fast. And this is happening across the board.

Ensuring quality contributions is a collective responsibility of nationalities, not just one.

Sir... We come for timepass to escape lockdown frustration. Hands-on heart, when did you see the last conversation which is serious without of insults, trolling or out of Topic... If you want to improve the quality of website, be ruthless in moderation.. else enjoy the traffic of troll in short term and in long term only God has save PDF. I miss good old days when I used to learn new things. Now I come to troll because most of the threads are troll threads like current one .. Here we are discussing whether IAF can be decimated in 10 or 12 hrs and what is the supporting argument, Pak defeated India' in Feb 2019. If Moderator's are serious about quality, this thread should have been closed withi first few minutes and Op should have been handed over a warning.

But alas.... Everyone is frustrated and need a venting point, PDF is doing well...

 

[achhu]

Why do you put such stupid questions. Don't you know Pakistan's war is China's war. All China's resources are at Pak's disposal. Xi is restrained by PMIK, else China would have liberated Kashmir...


Sir... We come for timepass to escape lockdown frustration. Hands-on heart, when did you see the last conversation which is serious without of insults, trolling or out of Topic... If you want to improve the quality of website, be ruthless in moderation.. else enjoy the traffic of troll in short term and in long term only God has save PDF. I miss good old days when I used to learn new things. Now I come to troll because most of the threads are troll threads like current one .. Here we are discussing whether IAF can be decimated in 10 or 12 hrs and what is the supporting argument, Pak defeated India' in Feb 2019. If Moderator's are serious about quality, this thread should have been closed withi first few minutes and Op should have been handed over a warning.

But alas.... Everyone is frustrated and need a venting point, PDF is doing well...

very true , discussion on imaginary threads invites trolling . thread heading should have been changed if serious discussion was desired .

Friends, this Indian patriot and ex army artillery major who served in Galvan, articulates my points beautifully

please like and subscribe. As it is said in Urdu “dushman ko kabhi haqeer na sumjo”

KV

he is a great moral booster nowadays .

 

[Dustom999]

Thanks for the detailed counter and explanation.

Well, you presented 3 initial problems!
¹.China doesn't have enough air bases near border, India has more. So advantage india!
2. Chinese fighters can't takeoff with full weapons load because of elevation of their air fields.
3. China will not be able to support 3000 aircraft it has due to less number of forward bases.

Your whole imagination was based on these assumptions.
I solved your problems in one single post! No further discussion needed.
1. Not all attacking aircraft need to be present at forward airbase. They can come from elsewhere. Yes, Thousands of KM away if needed.
A tight flying wing can mimic a commercial long haul Boeing, military planes in 2020 can even electronically mimic civilian transponders and use civilian IFF modes (A,B,C,S) to satisfy civilian ATC towers, hiding their true identity.
Infact military mode 4 and civilian mode S has been already integrated officially.
2. As i already said, I am not sure who planted the idea that military aircraft will compromise on weapons load at elevated airfields. Its not so! Your problems are very old in nature.
3. 3000 aircrafts can make 10000-15000 raids per day, that's not needed. Even 15-20% of those sorties will do the job.
Well now, you say IAF won't sit idle, wont be sucking thumb or whatever, well I was just solving the problems on which your whole supremacy argument was based, all the problems you learned from TV debates and Retd.Airmen blogs and online forums are solvable and have been solved already. Not just by china by every air force worth its name.
IAF has plans, just that you aren't close to guessing them. I mean neither am I.

The advantages of more forward airbases were advantages in past, when fighters and interceptors has very limited combat radius.

 

[pothead]

Well, you presented 3 initial problems!
¹.China doesn't have enough air bases near border, India has more. So advantage india!
2. Chinese fighters can't takeoff with full weapons load because of elevation of their air fields.
3. China will not be able to support 3000 aircraft it has due to less number of forward bases.

Your whole imagination was based on these assumptions.
I solved your problems in one single post! No further discussion needed.
1. Not all attacking aircraft need to be present at forward airbase. They can come from elsewhere. Yes, Thousands of KM away if needed.
A tight flying wing can mimic a commercial long haul Boeing, military planes in 2020 can even electronically mimic civilian transponders and use civilian IFF modes (A,B,C,S) to satisfy civilian ATC towers, hiding their true identity.
Infact military mode 4 and civilian mode S has been already integrated officially.
2. As i already said, I am not sure who planted the idea that military aircraft will compromise on weapons load at elevated airfields. Its not so! Your problems are very old in nature.
3. 3000 aircrafts can make 10000-15000 raids per day, that's not needed. Even 15-20% of those sorties will do the job.
Well now, you say IAF won't sit idle, wont be sucking thumb or whatever, well I was just solving the problems on which your whole supremacy argument was based, all the problems you learned from TV debates and Retd.Airmen blogs and online forums are solvable and have been solved already. Not just by china by every air force worth its name.
IAF has plans, just that you aren't close to guessing them. I mean neither am I.

1. No one is saying they can't come from long distances, that's foolish especially with mid air refuellers in play. Only pointing at the logistical nightmare of achieving it. Everything needs a place to sit, the longer in flight, the longer risk.
The advantage would still be with India simply because they can do everything CHinese can do & still have advantage of fielding more planes at a shorter notice.
I am not even counting the air-defenses at this point.
2. Sorry, was talking about fuel anyway.
3. Makes no difference, Chinese would commit 3000+ air assets to India at a time? Unless India is finished with Air defenses and Air assets, China would not even commit a dozen crafts to attacking India.

No is saying India has supremacy over China.
If IAF attacks PLAAF, we would be skewered...

Just point to the fact that PLAAF would face similar challenges when they face Indian defenses on Indian soil.

Defense always has over-whelming advantage, unless the attacker is simply too powerful.
People keep talking about missiles and MBLR's from China as if India can't field something similar and god forbid launch attacks on Beijing or Shanghai...

China does not have the numbers to overwhelm India defenses with PLAAF, thats the bottom line.

 

[Dustom999]

OP couldn't be more funny -

Having said that, let's game this shall we?

So, China attacks India.
Let's get to the main thrust, PLAAF commits 3000+ air assets?
WAIT....from where are they committing so many air assets?
Has anyone checked how many Air bases PLAAF have near Indian border?
a total of 2..., one in Tibet and other in Xinjiang. Check how far Xinjiang is to Indian border. All other bases are so far that attacking from there would all be pointless.
So, from 2 air bases PLAAF is going to launch it's 3000+ air assets? Anyone else wanna game play this?

Frankly with current infrastructure, PLAAF cannot even dream of doing air incursions into India.
They would be slaughtered, simply because they would be the attackers, carrying half the payload & having to travel longer distances to attack India.

Since PLAAF can only commit a certain number of Air assets in attacks due to just having 2 air bases & India can pretty much activate half it's IAF + air defense...wanna guess who would be slaughtered?


Oh, just forgot, After PLAAF commits to attacking India, guess what India would do along with defending it's air?
Activate it's Navy along the straits...

When you game something, at least consider what both sides can bring,
the geography of the battle,
Logistics needed for the battle,
& the infrastructure to support the

Now you say, no-one is saying- It would be foolish to say they can't come from distant air bases. That's exactly what you were going on and on about previously

 

[pothead]

Now you say, no-one is saying- It would be foolish to say they can't come from distant air bases. That's exactly what you were going on and on about previously

Name one battle where a country flew thousands of planes, thousands of km's away and attacked?

 

[Dustom999]

Name one battle where a country flew thousands of planes, thousands of km's away and attacked?

Wow!
The whole sand castle falls to " It has not been done, so won't be done ever"

 

[pothead]

Wow!
The whole sand castle falls to " It has not been done, so won't be done ever"

So, it has never been done - right?
Once we confirm that,

can you name one source that says it can be done?
An article that games the scenario you are talking about...after all it's such a common strategy and an expected one from China, some one surely has gamed it and wrote something about it.

No one has done it.
no expert has gamed and said that it can be done
BUT
Still we MUST accept that it can be done...

 

[Dustom999]

So, it has never been done - right?
Once we confirm that,

can you name one source that says it can be done?
An article that games the scenario you are talking about...after all it's such a common strategy and an expected one from China, some one surely has gamed it and wrote something about it.

No one has done it.
no expert has gamed and said that it can be done
BUT
Still we MUST accept that it can be done...

There have been over 50 combat missions from different air forces in excess of 3000 km, there have been combat missions in excess of 7000km also.
But I see what are you doing now, shifting the goal post! Diverting away attention from exposé of your failed assumptions.
Now you want people to throw at you history and then whole new direction of debate emerges. Ofcourse then historical authenticity will be challenged and more goal post shifting.

Now you do one thing, if you want further knowledge. First admit that combat missions can be flown from high elevation with full weapons loadout. Secondly, advantages of more airbases near to border can be negated very well if one is up to the challenge of managing logistics of it.

 

[pothead]

There have been over 50 combat missions from different air forces in excess of 3000 km, there have been combat missions in excess of 7000km also.
But I see what are you doing now, shifting the goal post! Diverting away attention from exposé of your failed assumptions.
Now you want people to throw at you history and then whole new direction of debate emerges. Ofcourse then historical authenticity will be challenged and more goal post shifting.

Now you do one thing, if you want further knowledge. First admit that combat missions can be flown from high elevation with full weapons loadout. Secondly, advantages of more airbases near to border can be negated very well if one is up to the challenge of managing logistics of it.

Sure, show one with thousands of air assets with thousands km away.
recent major is the Iraq war in 2003, know which bases were used to attack it?

 

[LeGenD]

I have amended the title of the thread in accordance with its theme.

Please avoid one-line exchanges. This is not a chat session.

Classic 'I don't want to know what the other side is doing' mistake.

First, I can't believe you are comparing to civilian vs military here.

Second, as you mentioned, China would need planes to take off from far off bases, re-fuel in mid air (how will this happen, do they tankers placed in forward bases?) and then attack India after flying thousands of KM.
And
thousands of sorties by Chinese - again great.

All the while Indian air assets and defenses would be twiddling their thumbs, waiting in their bunkers for PLAAF to destroy them - Is that your game plan?

At least be coherent in your argument.

Indian bases are near to the border to China than most Chinese Air bases, it gives India huge advantage.
Like I said, India can have half of IAF in air for defense in no time.
China would need significant lead time to get even 100 fighters near India, since they have come form far off bases and like you said refuel.

You lot are seriously saying PLAAF is going to cross Indian border with hundreds of it's aircrafts at one time?

Hilarious and unrealistic.
They would fly into a massacre.

PLAAF have H-6N bomber(s) which can be equipped with ALBM to engage distant targets.

They have conducted such tests. ALBM can be used to attack military bases across India, if need be.

@Deino
@FairAndUnbiased
@IblinI
@Joe Shearer

This is also a dimension.

 

[pothead]

I have amended the title of the thread in accordance with its theme.

Please avoid one-line exchanges. This is not a chat session.


PLAAF have H-6N bomber(s) which can be equipped with ALBM to engage distant targets.

They have conducted such tests. ALBM can be used to attack military bases across India, if need be.

@Deino
@FairAndUnbiased
@IblinI
@Joe Shearer

This is also a dimension.

Lets game that then.

A H-6N bomber takes off & fires a ALBM at India.
India does not know whether it's conventional or nuclear,
India has to decide in next few minutes & decide to launch a potential nuclear missile at China as well.

Wondering how this will play out.

Any guesses?

China might not have fired a nuclear missile but since it is the first one firing a potential nuclear ALBM, would the world blame India for a nuclear retort?
MBLR's are one thing, still it does not cross the threshold of MAD,
a bomber with potential nuclear missiles - Good luck gaming India's response buddy.

 

[IblinI]

Lets game that then.

A H-6N bomber takes off & fires a ALBM at India.
India does not know whether it's conventional or nuclear,
India has to decide in next few minutes & decide to launch a potential nuclear missile at China as well.

Wondering how this will play out.

Any guesses?

China might not have fired a nuclear missile but since it is the first one firing a potential nuclear ALBM, would the world blame India for a nuclear retort?
MBLR's are one thing, still it does not cross the threshold of MAD,
a bomber with potential nuclear missiles - Good luck gaming India's response buddy.

Please write a specific report to China, USA, and Russia about how ALBM projects will not work because the other side might retaliate and asked them to all stopped the funding.