Hypothetical - Can IAF be wiped out in 10 hour or 12 hours by PLAAF?

[LeGenD]

@Mangus Ortus Novem

Another beautiful contribution, my man.

This time with summation of actual clash, a hypothetical engagement scenario, the element of cost-benefit analysis and far-reaching effects in the flow. Appreciated.

 

[Khan vilatey]

Friends, this Indian patriot and ex army artillery major who served in Galvan, articulates my points beautifully

please like and subscribe. As it is said in Urdu “dushman ko kabhi haqeer na sumjo”

KV

 

[The Maverick]

India is a massive country.
Military infrastucture is spread all over the 3000km borders .
huge mountans valleys .

Over 50 fighter bases alone some 2000km apart.

Have you any idea the sort of ARMADA you would require to decimate IAF .

4th largest AIR POWER on the planet

China could not decimate Taiwan or Korea Or Japa EVEN in a week

India is another LEVEL

 

[pothead]

It takes my lid off as soon as I see people typing like this! (.....) (???!!!!???!!!?)
My eyes bleed and head starts spinning. It is such a bad reading experience.
Whats the deal with excessive dots and ?? And then that exclamation, multiple times.
Is that a fashion thing? Is it in these days? I am sorry i am totally out of sync.

Anyway. One does not need to compromise on weapons load while taking off from a elevated airfield. No-one does that. I don't know who planted that idea.
Professional air forces take off from high elevation with full weapon loads, but reduced fuel. They refuel again after being airborne.
Secondly, why would china need 3000 of the machines to come in?

My lid goes off when I see people false flags...

Regarding the weapons & fuel, you are right,
Still, does not answer the dozens of scenarios I catered for in my post.

Regarding the 3000 machines...well, read the first post in the thread, then read very carefully the first line in my post.

China needing 3000 machines is moot,
with just 2 bases near Indian border, their capacity to field Aircrafts are severely limited, unlike India's.
Coming to 'need', how many do YOU think they would need then?

 

[Khan vilatey]

India is a massive country.
Military infrastucture is spread all over the 3000km borders .
huge mountans valleys .

Over 50 fighter bases alone some 2000km apart.

Have you any idea the sort of ARMADA you would require to decimate IAF .

4th largest AIR POWER on the planet

China could not decimate Taiwan or Korea Or Japa EVEN in a week

India is another LEVEL

That is correct India is a big country with a large military but technically and numerically is equivalent to Iraq when compared to China. Before the first gulf war Iraq 5th or 6th largest but were completely decimated by the US aircraft due to significant technical and numerical superiority.

I have to reply to another poster but here is a trailer, China will not go on the offensive in India but will protect its vastly superior and technically advanced ground forces taking on say another 20-50 kms in India. The IAF will have to respond aggressively to defend their retreating army resulting in heavy losses.

as far as the Indian army is concerned it’s not going to be due to a lack of bravery or love for India that they will lose. I actually believe that they will fight to the last bullet. The Indian soldiers did not retreat when overwhelmed by the Chinese in Galvan or in 62 they instead fought and died. It’s just that the odds against them are overwhelming. They are fighting in a terrain where the enemy has all the higher peaks, has numerical superiority, has technical superiority and has good and effective supply lines.

Plus they can not move the bulk of their army as Pakistan will just lock up their forces on the LoC and the border. If they move significant forces we will exploit this.

in conclusion this is not the end, the Chinese have met all their objectives and will be back for more

Objectives
1) the Karakoram Highway and train link in Gilgit baltistan is now 100% secure

2) the chinese have moved up to the 1959 claim line

3) India now has to dismantle its defenses and move back from the 1959 claims line. This was defended by the Indian army for 27 years.

4) Supply lines to saichin and Kargil are affected, Pakistan may exploit this.


Look forward to your reply

KV

 

[Dustom999]

My lid goes off when I see people false flags...

Regarding the weapons & fuel, you are right,
Still, does not answer the dozens of scenarios I catered for in my post.

Regarding the 3000 machines...well, read the first post in the thread, then read very carefully the first line in my post.

China needing 3000 machines is moot,
with just 2 bases near Indian border, their capacity to field Aircrafts are severely limited, unlike India's.
Coming to 'need', how many do YOU think they would need then?

Delhi IGI sees nearly 1500 flights a day, where landing and takeoff protocols are much more complex than military ones. And its its not even the most busy ones of the world.
Do you realize that fighters need not be stationed at forward bases if you plan a surprise raid on enemy. They can takeoff from anywhere, refuel midair , conduct mission ,land at forward airbase for just rearming and fuel and go back to hot zone again. If the base can house enough munition and fuel.
Or the forward bases dispatch their 50 or so towards enemy, while those coming from distant locations land at forward bases meanwhile, topup and takeoff and go in as second wave towards enemy, while third wave follow the same routine. I mean this could be done over and over again.
2 air bases I say 1000 sorties easy if you have made preparation. I recon with element of surprise, about 8-10 sqn of fighters will be enough to completely stop air activity in hostile zone, then big bad bombers can do their job.
Ohh sorry my master, I forgot your dozen hypothetical ones. May be some other time I will please my master.
What was meant by False Flag? Are you

trying to accuse me of something?

 

[jk007]

That is correct India is a big country with a large military but technically and numerically is equivalent to Iraq when compared to China. Before the first gulf war Iraq 5th or 6th largest but were completely decimated by the US aircraft due to significant technical and numerical superiority.

I have to reply to another poster but here is a trailer, China will not go on the offensive in India but will protect its vastly superior and technically advanced ground forces taking on say another 20-50 kms in India. The IAF will have to respond aggressively to defend their retreating army resulting in heavy losses.

as far as the Indian army is concerned it’s not going to be due to a lack of bravery or love for India that they will lose. I actually believe that they will fight to the last bullet. The Indian soldiers did not retreat when overwhelmed by the Chinese in Galvan or in 62 they instead fought and died. It’s just that the odds against them are overwhelming. They are fighting in a terrain where the enemy has all the higher peaks, has numerical superiority, has technical superiority and has good and effective supply lines.

Plus they can not move the bulk of their army as Pakistan will just lock up their forces on the LoC and the border. If they move significant forces we will exploit this.

in conclusion this is not the end, the Chinese have met all their objectives and will be back for more

Objectives
1) the Karakoram Highway and train link in Gilgit baltistan is now 100% secure

2) the chinese have moved up to the 1959 claim line

3) India now has to dismantle its defenses and move back from the 1959 claims line. This was defended by the Indian army for 27 years.

4) Supply lines to saichin and Kargil are affected, Pakistan may exploit this.


Look forward to your reply

KV

a) Assume you entire post is correct (it is not so simple). Then, will you agree that China made a big mistake by not going for the kill? China actually woke India up from it's fantasy (about intentions of chinese).
b) Assuming your post is correct, India does not have a choice other than getting into USA + Europe + Japan camp

 

[Khan vilatey]

a) Assume you entire post is correct (it is not so simple). Then, will you agree that China made a big mistake by not going for the kill? China actually woke India up from it's fantasy (about intentions of chinese).
b) Assuming your post is correct, India does not have a choice other than getting into USA + Europe + Japan camp

a) Assume you entire post is correct (it is not so simple). Then, will you agree that China made a big mistake by not going for the kill? China actually woke India up from it's fantasy (about intentions of chinese).
b) Assuming your post is correct, India does not have a choice other than getting into USA + Europe + Japan camp

They had a choice but they chose to join the western analysis, we who hail from then sub content have a gora babu complex.

the Chinese wanted the world to see how India surrenders its territory which will reduce the position of India in the eyes of the west.

they are clearly not a bulwark against China.

If the Indians had any sense they would immediately sort their problems out with Pakistan, but that is a pipe dream of mine.

if the don’t unfortunately us and the Indians will both be chinese proxies. Them first and us with a lot more land later.

see without India our strategic position isn’t important . We would then become a Chinese Colony at they point. A lot like Ukraine was to Russia or purto Rico , Canada or Mexico for the us

KV



KV

 

[pothead]

Delhi IGI sees nearly 1500 flights a day, where landing and takeoff protocols are much more complex than military ones. And its its not even the most busy ones of the world.
Do you realize that fighters need not be stationed at forward bases if you plan a surprise raid on enemy. They can takeoff from anywhere, refuel midair , conduct mission ,land at forward airbase for just rearming and fuel and go back to hot zone again. If the base can house enough munition and fuel.
Or the forward bases dispatch their 50 or so towards enemy, while those coming from distant locations land at forward bases meanwhile, topup and takeoff and go in as second wave towards enemy, while third wave follow the same routine. I mean this could be done over and over again.
2 air bases I say 1000 sorties easy if you have made preparation. I recon with element of surprise, about 8-10 sqn of fighters will be enough to completely stop air activity in hostile zone, then big bad bombers can do their job.
Ohh sorry my master, I forgot your dozen hypothetical ones. May be some other time I will please my master.
What was meant by False Flag? Are you

trying to accuse me of something?

Classic 'I don't want to know what the other side is doing' mistake.

First, I can't believe you are comparing to civilian vs military here.

Second, as you mentioned, China would need planes to take off from far off bases, re-fuel in mid air (how will this happen, do they tankers placed in forward bases?) and then attack India after flying thousands of KM.
And
thousands of sorties by Chinese - again great.

All the while Indian air assets and defenses would be twiddling their thumbs, waiting in their bunkers for PLAAF to destroy them - Is that your game plan?

At least be coherent in your argument.

Indian bases are near to the border to China than most Chinese Air bases, it gives India huge advantage.
Like I said, India can have half of IAF in air for defense in no time.
China would need significant lead time to get even 100 fighters near India, since they have come form far off bases and like you said refuel.

You lot are seriously saying PLAAF is going to cross Indian border with hundreds of it's aircrafts at one time?

Hilarious and unrealistic.
They would fly into a massacre.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Classic 'I don't want to know what the other side is doing' mistake.

First, I can't believe you are comparing to civilian vs military here.

Second, as you mentioned, China would need planes to take off from far off bases, re-fuel in mid air (how will this happen, do they tankers placed in forward bases?) and then attack India after flying thousands of KM.
And
thousands of sorties by Chinese - again great.

All the while Indian air assets and defenses would be twiddling their thumbs, waiting in their bunkers for PLAAF to destroy them - Is that your game plan?

At least be coherent in your argument.

Indian bases are near to the border to China than most Chinese Air bases, it gives India huge advantage.
Like I said, India can have half of IAF in air for defense in no time.
China would need significant lead time to get even 100 fighters near India, since they have come form far off bases and like you said refuel.

You lot are seriously saying PLAAF is going to cross Indian border with hundreds of it's aircrafts at one time?

Hilarious and unrealistic.
They would fly into a massacre.

you have really head like pot their tankers have enough range to refuel their jets from south , and they don't need to cross border but launch massive amount to their long range MBRLS so Indian jets will unable to fly and intercept Chinese intruders

 

[Khan vilatey]

Classic 'I don't want to know what the other side is doing' mistake.

First, I can't believe you are comparing to civilian vs military here.

Second, as you mentioned, China would need planes to take off from far off bases, re-fuel in mid air (how will this happen, do they tankers placed in forward bases?) and then attack India after flying thousands of KM.
And
thousands of sorties by Chinese - again great.

All the while Indian air assets and defenses would be twiddling their thumbs, waiting in their bunkers for PLAAF to destroy them - Is that your game plan?

At least be coherent in your argument.

Indian bases are near to the border to China than most Chinese Air bases, it gives India huge advantage.
Like I said, India can have half of IAF in air for defense in no time.
China would need significant lead time to get even 100 fighters near India, since they have come form far off bases and like you said refuel.

You lot are seriously saying PLAAF is going to cross Indian border with hundreds of it's aircrafts at one time?

Hilarious and unrealistic.
They would fly into a massacre.

Missing the point here, India has more fixed bases and strategic depth but China can not use its vast (compared to India) tanker fleet to supplement its sorties?

China will not decimate Indian forward FOB with its much higher concentrations of cruise missiles on their purpose built strategic bombers,

it will also not use its two or more Airbases to ferry multiple divisions with its significantly larger transport fleet ?

Also, Another point for the group, the Chinese clearly had better battlefield awareness, will they restart the intrusions if the Indians try to reinforce their position? Take more land to get deals like No Firearms To Be Used By Troops Patrolling in their territory

kv

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Classic 'I don't want to know what the other side is doing' mistake.

First, I can't believe you are comparing to civilian vs military here.

Second, as you mentioned, China would need planes to take off from far off bases, re-fuel in mid air (how will this happen, do they tankers placed in forward bases?) and then attack India after flying thousands of KM.
And
thousands of sorties by Chinese - again great.

All the while Indian air assets and defenses would be twiddling their thumbs, waiting in their bunkers for PLAAF to destroy them - Is that your game plan?

At least be coherent in your argument.

Indian bases are near to the border to China than most Chinese Air bases, it gives India huge advantage.
Like I said, India can have half of IAF in air for defense in no time.
China would need significant lead time to get even 100 fighters near India, since they have come form far off bases and like you said refuel.

You lot are seriously saying PLAAF is going to cross Indian border with hundreds of it's aircrafts at one time?

Hilarious and unrealistic.
They would fly into a massacre.

I've already analyzed the geography on pg. 15. India doesn't have a major geographic advantage in Ladakh in terms of air power. Then it's inferiority in radar and electronics would get IAF destroyed.

 

[pothead]

you have really head like pot their tankers have enough range to refuel their jets from south , and they don't need to cross border but launch massive amount to their long range MBRLS so Indian jets will unable to fly and intercept Chinese intruders

Long range MBRL's?
Which Indian Airfields?
With in few hours they would be repaired and back on track...So, what is the game plan here?

Wait, India also has long range missiles, which it can use as well.

Do you even know what kind of escalation is MBRL's?
What's stopping India to blast Chinese Cargo ships flowing through the straits?
We will literally attack each and every Chinese vessels in IO.

Missing the point here, India has more fixed bases and strategic depth but China can not use its vast (compared to India) tanker fleet to supplement its sorties?

China will not decimate Indian forward FOB with its much higher concentrations of cruise missiles on their purpose built strategic bombers,

it will also not use its two or more Airbases to ferry multiple divisions with its significantly larger transport fleet ?

Also, Another point for the group, the Chinese clearly had better battlefield awareness, will they restart the intrusions if the Indians try to reinforce their position? Take more land to get deals like No Firearms To Be Used By Troops Patrolling in their territory

kv

Well, at least better than other posters, will give you that.
So, while China is doing all that, what do you think India's response would be?

You only say what Chinese will do
But
You are not even thinking about what India will do counter that.
Bombers in Indian Air space...hilarious,
unless it's a surprise attack, it would not even work.
Even if it works, it would take out one Airbase & may not even take out any aircraft.

next what?

Will repeat the surprise attack?

What;s stopping India doing similar attacks somewhere else against China, should I give you a hint?

I've already analyzed the geography on pg. 15. India doesn't have a major geographic advantage in Ladakh in terms of air power. Then it's inferiority in radar and electronics would get IAF destroyed.

well, the game here is you being the attackers.
At least get the premise right..

 

[IblinI]

This thread is going down fast, mr pothead and marviek sounds exactly like some of the young blood Chinese guy who is arguing restlessly and try to proved that a war within the first two island chain against the US is actually viable, "US has too many theatre, maximum 4–6 carriers can be used at a time, we have this, we have that, we are going to have..." blah blah blah.

 

[KAL-EL]

Long range MBRL's?
Which Indian Airfields?
With in few hours they would be repaired and back on track...So, what is the game plan here?

Wait, India also has long range missiles, which it can use as well.

Do you even know what kind of escalation is MBRL's?
What's stopping India to blast Chinese Cargo ships flowing through the straits?
We will literally attack each and every Chinese vessels in IO.



Well, at least better than other posters, will give you that.
So, while China is doing all that, what do you think India's response would be?

You only say what Chinese will do
But
You are not even thinking about what India will do counter that.
Bombers in Indian Air space...hilarious,
unless it's a surprise attack, it would not even work.
Even if it works, it would take out one Airbase & may not even take out any aircraft.

next what?

Will repeat the surprise attack?

What;s stopping India doing similar attacks somewhere else against China, should I give you a hint?



well, the game here is you being the attackers.
At least get the premise right..

Hello Mr. pothead