How to Overtake the Indian Armour ?

[Areesh]

well i hope you ever visited Pakistan till now , you must be agree in pakistan very large number of peoples are against pakistan army and leaders but they cant do any thing

Yeah right lol.

 

[GOD OF WAR]

Extremely Extremely unlikely.
Pakistan may engage India in case a war with China is on.. But China would be very hesitant to step in in case of an India/Pakistan conflict.

It will provide material and diplomatic support.
But that it it.

first off, this is a question, not an argument. I'm well aware of your prowess and take this opportunity to learn from you Having said that,

If your above assertion stands true, then how do you explain Chinese troops buildup in Gilgit/Chiltral/Kashmir region about which India was so belligerently howling about?

Pakistan, and its existence is a first line of Defence of sorts for China, if Pakistan is compromised, then China will loose a chief and imminent ally. China's long term strategic goals are highly dependent on Pakistan's security. This includes but is not limited to China's foothold in CIS, Gulf and energy corridors that would propel China to global dominance. If Gwadar, Karachi and Pasni is compromised, then Hambantoto is suffer the same fate, thus putting a brazzen end to Chinese presence in Indian Ocean. Surely the Chinese will not sit back and watch in the event where Pakistan is being battered (for the sake of argument)?

While China will exert diplomatic pressures via UN, it is not unlikely that if Pakistan is unable to surmount an Indian attack, it will indulge in military action against India. This is why China has gone on to say that 'Pakistan is our Israel'.

Would appreciate your comment on these 2 points of mine. Thought provoking posts of this thread by you. Bravo!

 

[Black Widow]

1.Consider the situation as of today. PA still has superior quality, although IA has much more in numbers. But with the insurgencies raising within and non-friendly borders all around how much of this huge asset can IA push into Pakistan? Even take into consideration air superiority and missiles.

PA had superior quality in 1965 (Gibraltor), Kargil, 1971, and 1945. PA had AIr superiority in 1965 (India was wrecked by Chinese aggression) Still they couldn't win. On Missile, I doubt. Indian Missile programs are more superior than Pak-(Korean-Chiniese).

2. Now envisage the scenario in Pakistan where IA armor has entered. For the argument let us assume Pak AirDef and A/Tk defenses have been mauled. But what about the hundreds of thousands of common man Pakistanis who will throw molotov cocktails and lay IEDs? Don't you see these people everyday dubbed by the Western media as Taliban/ Terrorist/AQ/Jihadists, etc, etc? No armor has been built to withstand a molotov cocktail discharged by a patriot.

Molotov cocktail is useful if India will Invade for ruling Pakistan(Long term agenda). Much before that One party will put there weapon and come to table for agreement. (India or Pakistan).

 

[OrionHunter]

Tell this to fellow Indian members too. They have already created a whole time table to implement cold start.

Here's the timetable:
Day one - On your marks
Day two - Get set
Day three - GO! (D-Day)
Day four - Lunch at Islamabad, Multan and Hyderabad
Day five - breakfast in Peshawar, Quetta and Nok Kundli.

End of story! Next.....

Cheers!

 

[Ganga]

Just don't send terrorists to India to kill innocents like you guys did in 26/11.That will be the best way to prevent India from sending armored divisions to pierce through Pakistani defenses.

 

[sputnik]

involvement of China in Indo-Pak conflict is highly exaggerated from Pak. side. China is heavly assertive towards Taiwan. but till date we havn't seen any Boot on ground situation. If attacking on someone is as easy as saying on this forum then Pakistan and the US come up with such things on weekly basis. ( We know how harsh words are shared between two on diplomatic level).

Any conventional war between Indo - Pak is also not possible in near term coz of heavy US and NATO presence in this region.Anymis happening between us is not good for them.

Once US leave then also theater will be Afghanistan not Rajasthan or Kashmir.

So, friends we will discuss how to and what to USE when it actually happen.

For Indians : We are already enjoying the show.who cares where the hell they end up.

 

[Black Widow]

involvement of China in Indo-Pak conflict is highly exaggerated from Pak. side. China is heavly assertive towards Taiwan. but till date we havn't seen any Boot on ground situation. If attacking on someone is as easy as saying on this forum then Pakistan and the US come up with such things on weekly basis. ( We know how harsh words are shared between two on diplomatic level).

Any conventional war between Indo - Pak is also not possible in near term coz of heavy US and NATO presence in this region.Anymis happening between us is not good for them.

Once US leave then also theater will be Afghanistan not Rajasthan or Kashmir.

So, friends we will discuss how to and what to USE when it actually happen.

For Indians : We are already enjoying the show.who cares where the hell they end up.

You can't trust Pakistan. Pakistan awam is peaceful, But there are element in PA who are Anti Hindu-India. Musharraf was one of those. Whithout consulting he drafted war like kargil. It is said that ISI/PA designed 26/11. Who knows some psycho will do the same again. And trust me India will not keep quite...

Who knows how many such generals are hidden in PA???
So we can't say that We won't attack pakistan. We can retaliate is provoked. (As we did in 1965,kargil and many other time)

 

[GURU DUTT]

hello guys im new but about this thread

1) india is not going to be a agressor in the first place

2)there will be no COLD START policy

3)yes if (god forbid)theres a INDO-PAK WAR be restassured that there is going to be no help from any power for INDIA or PAKISTAN from CHINA ,USA ,RUSSIA to either party

so guys JUST CHILL!

 

[SQ8]

first off, this is a question, not an argument. I'm well aware of your prowess and take this opportunity to learn from you Having said that,

If your above assertion stands true, then how do you explain Chinese troops buildup in Gilgit/Chiltral/Kashmir region about which India was so belligerently howling about?

Pakistan, and its existence is a first line of Defence of sorts for China, if Pakistan is compromised, then China will loose a chief and imminent ally. China's long term strategic goals are highly dependent on Pakistan's security. This includes but is not limited to China's foothold in CIS, Gulf and energy corridors that would propel China to global dominance. If Gwadar, Karachi and Pasni is compromised, then Hambantoto is suffer the same fate, thus putting a brazzen end to Chinese presence in Indian Ocean. Surely the Chinese will not sit back and watch in the event where Pakistan is being battered (for the sake of argument)?

While China will exert diplomatic pressures via UN, it is not unlikely that if Pakistan is unable to surmount an Indian attack, it will indulge in military action against India. This is why China has gone on to say that 'Pakistan is our Israel'.

Would appreciate your comment on these 2 points of mine. Thought provoking posts of this thread by you. Bravo!

Chinese presence does not imply that the Chinese will engage India in case Pakistan is attacked.
Those troops are mostly eng corps there to assist in a project, and in case of rising tension will most likely be recalled.

Gwadar isnt as preferred by the Chinese as some would think. They like the Prospect of being able to port in Sri Lanka better.

"Pakistan is our Israel"..
How many times had the US stepped in to actually fight alongside Israel.
it provides weapons.. cash, diplomatic support.. but the US had never engaged anyone on Israel's behalf.
Moreover.. I think its a bad example... Israel has backstabbed the US many times.. firing on US ships, spying on the US..
We haven't stooped so low yet

 

[Dash]

India doesnt posses precision guided arty,ucav,IFV... also abt other things... we also posses them n in almost equal numbers... how do u lan to ovr run them all ? by a miracle... i guess.

Which UCAVS you have?? and what is the IFV that you have..?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Which artillery system of Pakistan Army is precision guided ??

SH-1,A-100,KRL-122 .... ring any bells?

And as far as my limited knowledge goes only USN & USAF has a UCAV which they are testing currently all the other countries have just started the project and there has been a common memorandum that the UCAV won't be sold to a 2nd country or proliferated one of reasons why most of the countries are having their own programs.... Now from when did PAF started having a UCAV ??

CH-3
Burraq

and dozens of types of UAVs.

Indian Army has about 5000 tanks while Pakistan Army has 2640...i.e. almost double according to me.

220-240 arjuns and lets say 1000 T-90s + obsolete vjayatas+t-55s n nght blind t-72 320 T-84.. 600 AK.... 600+ AZ and 1300+ AK-II+Type 85II.. n other mbts.

Total Tank Strength by Country
With about 75 191 land based weapons.... i.e. second only to Russia.
Total Land-Based Weapons by Country

Considering indias obsolete weapons?

Name your indigenous artillery gun ??

Read:
Pakistan Produces Indigenous 125 Millimetre Tank Gun For Al-Khalid Tank ~ ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

We also produce Pantars n A-100s.

150 FC-20
64 F-16 blk 52+
250-300 JF-17 blk-IIIs


i.e. almost 500 combat aircraft which would account for an increase of about 30 squadrons which means an investment of atleast 100 billion USD on equipment and pilot training alone not to mention staff, weapon systems, basing and storage facilities.....

Thts PAFs headache... u also forgot Mirage ROSE,J-7Ps.

and more importantly the time i.e. even if we go by 25 aircraft per year delivered then it would take 15-20 years for total deliveries by that time

With KAMRA producing 15+ jets per year n CATIC production .. i dnt think so... we already have 2 active sqds of JF-17.. another 50 will arrive this year.... same goes for FC-20... 52-54 are already on order to be delivered by 2014... more will follow.. infact we may produce them inhouse.

those planes would be old and ineffective against the 5th generation fighters being fielded by the IAF

They would arrive before ur MRCA thts for sure... n to counter iafs 5th gen fighter we sure have options like J-20,JXX or even F-35..

.... BTW what is JF-17 block III ??

Do u thnk after blk-II JF-17 wont evolve further?

As usual your BS has been Busted.... Again....

Yeah right.

 

[GOD OF WAR]

Looks like Pakistanis can carry their nuclear warheads in their pant's pockets!!

You better believe it, its in every Pakistanis pants!

 

[mymeaningislion]

Here's the timetable:
Day one - On your marks
Day two - Get set
Day three - GO! (D-Day)
Day four - Lunch at Islamabad, Multan and Hyderabad
Day five - breakfast in Peshawar, Quetta and Nok Kundli.

End of story! Next.....

Cheers!

last time your armoured divisions took 2 days to deploy so amend your dream a little further will benefit you.and your fellows. remember War is not how you plan it is what you do. and you weren't good last time. so now cheers

 

[Mosamania]

A digged in PA will completely destroy IA invasion that is certain and both sides know it. The trick here and this is what Indians are trying to do with their cold start doctrine is how to catch the PA off guard. Catching a force off guard is very difficult now s days more difficult than let's say as in early as the 90s. India trying to deploy large number of troops even makes it harder.

However the trick here for Pakistan is to mobilize faster than IA to gain victory. This could include disruptive missile shots as well as a "great wall" type of pre ordained armor and infantry ready to deply in large numbers in even shorter notice.

This all makes India fighting INSIDE Pakistan territory and actually gaining victory so hard it will be close to impossible. Of cours the battles in the air also will play a major role. Pakistan air force has shown it is superior to Indian air force before but from the looks of it India is doing it's best to shift this shortcoming.

And finally war should never be seeked by any side. War that will gain you nothing will only destroy you as a nation. Such a war will destroy Indian GDP growth rate since investors only like to work in stable countries also the same can go for pakistan.

 

[HariSeldon]

How to Annihilate the invading Indian Armour ?​

Introduction

Been thinking about it ever since my close friend in the east has been developing its so called "cold start doctrine" which was envisioned to "punish" Pakistan without sparking a full scale nuclear war.
India is currently giving final touches to this doctrine through mass exercises like "Operation Vijayee Bhava" involving some 50,000 troops , battle tanks , APCs and air support.

Introduction to Cold Start

* Feedback would be appreciated.

Interesting analysis. Just wondering why you left out Navy in all this.

BTW, how you will locate the IBG? To hit them you need there precise location while they are "supposed" to be agile? China can help you with sats, but as of now you are not integrated with them for real-time feed.

Next Q, who controls the trigger in PK? If I am not wrong, PA has the control. If IN does not cross border and uses its Navy and AF only, for whatever they achieve or not, how will PA will respond? If IA fights a defensive war, what PA will do?

I guess you are aware that it will take atleast 12-hr before PK can launch any Nuclear missile. I am not sure even Nasr the Nuclear Warhead mated with missile. Not that PK cann't do that. Maintenance and Security will be headache.

Now lets assume PK uses its Nuke card. Well you can not fire all your warhead like 1-2-3. I am novice, but I on't think your first wave will be of more than 10 warhead. Lets assume you are successful in that. What that means?

Hitting IN armed forces at 10 points will not give you anything. And if you hit civilian target than you are still left with military might of IN to deal with. After this IN has to make play. What if IN does not uses its Nukes? And uses all its conventional firepower against PK.Do you think even your all weather friend CN will come to to your rescue in that case. Well IN can take time to do whatever with PK with its own leisure time. After being the victim of PK nukes, whatever we do using conventional means will not be contested. Atleast for sometime which is all we wil need.

PS: I read this somewhere
"Amateur talks strategy, professional talk logistics."

Its so true. There is a thread in about PK Rail Loco problems.
Look what IN is buying in last decade. Compare the amnt IN is spending on logistics enhancement v/s fighting platform