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How should Pakistan tackle S400 acquisition by India? The Drone Swarm Technology....

These can fly for hours and with time they will become more smart. Its time for us to invest on Drone and AI....

Swarm drones have a role to play as do decoys. But, one sure way to defeat S-400 or any future development is through hypersonic weapons. Not sure if Pakistan will have such a system within the next decade but China has an impressive program in place.
 
Most of us know about latest S400 acquisition by India is certainly a game changer and our Army strategist must be planning to counter this. This hugely effect our attack capability in enemy deep land through Air.

The Answer which i came out is "Drone Swarm Technology" Already USA is working on it.

This is like killing Elephant with Ababeel and like Ibrahim A.S killed Namrood Big Army with swarm of Mosquitoes.

S400 downing one F16 or JF17 can be a big loss but S400 Missile downing a Drone is nothing.

So what you guys think about it??
Dont wory bro....we got ababeel just for ..s400....

The indian will be shitting in there pants till domes day....
S400... cant tackle ababeel...
 
Dont wory bro....we got ababeel just for ..s400....

The indian will be shitting in there pants till domes day....
S400... cant tackle ababeel...

It's not only about ballistic missiles. This system hinders quick retaliatory strikes against Indian targets by creating resistance against our aircrafts and cruise missiles. We cannot be in a position where our only response is a ballistic missile.
 
And you believe your "other networks" will or able to stope Ghaznavi Missile attack , Kudos tp your intelligence , , , And you also missed the point , does not matter how you stop them or what method (system) you use what matter is if you stop them you will lose (run out) of SAM missiles and if not you will still lose them.
Indian will not use S-400 against drones , they will use them against PAF or Missiles which posses great threat to them or system , , , for this reason I said to build Guznavi missiles in numbers with multi tube launcher ….


You live in your fantasy.. basically you are saying S 400 can be taken out but not that so called missile.. great .. lol

These can fly for hours and with time they will become more smart. Its time for us to invest on Drone and AI....


On what basis you are saying hours ? Unless you have unlimited power supply...
 
You live in your fantasy.. basically you are saying S 400 can be taken out but not that so called missile.. great .. lol




On what basis you are saying hours ? Unless you have unlimited power supply...
Most drones are flying for hours in many Armies specially Drone for surveillance purpose they are also attaching solar panel on wings.
 
Best aircraft to fly against S-400 is not F-22, its USN's F/A-18 Growler which can track F-22 too and in training they shoot down F-22 successfully.

To tackle Indian air defense environment a multi point approach will be needed which should also be not very expensive to pursue.
That was possible in close-range aerial engagements in which Growler's IR-assisted strike options came into play.

F-22 will make short work of any other Jet in a high-stakes engagement scenario.

S-400 is a lethal system and lethal enough even for F-22. F-22 is not immune to S-400 but it reduces S-400 detection range. S-400 will take out F-22 at 150km range so any manned system is useless and if you fire stand off weapons the system is designed to take them down.

The best counter for S-400 is to look at Russia it self. In the recent video which was published by Russia when Putin delivered his speech they provided new weapon system to counter air defences.

Another option is Iran. In the recent Syrian war an irani operated drone was shot down by Israel over occupied Golan heights, if Pakistan get those drones then we can defeat S-400.
Nobody can tell at what range S-400 can see F-22 in a reliable way but it would be too late for the system on the ground by then.

But why we discussing these options? PAF does not have these.
 
Russian systems such as the S-400 are potent no doubt, but too often overadvertised. The way Israel is making mincemeat out of Arab S-300 & Pantsir-S weapons in Syria makes it clear that these systems are over-exaggerated. Israel has neutralized Syrian S-300 & Pantsir through standoff cruise missiles and electronic jammings. Pakistan should draw lessons from the Israeli experience.

I remember when Indians on this forum and elsewhere used to oversell the S-300 and making the same claims they now make of the S-400. With proper preparations and trainings, Pakistan can remove them out of the equation early on in any conflict. This is made easier when China deploys the same weapons and can afford Pakistan the opportunity to train over and over again till tactics are perfected.
Interesting insight but is S-400 not the bees knees of these type of platforms? As things appear Pakistan is pretty well stuck between a rock and hard place. But your right about Chinese having them. It would offer a opportunity to see if the system has cracks which can be exploited.
 
We should get help from China on AI and Nano Robotics. Imagine a mosquito drones loaded with deadly poison, hiding in control room of S400 waiting for signal to kill operators
:rolleyes:Why not let's say, we spray sarin gas on each other. You ever wondered what's agreement on using chemical weapons. (Which is never use chemical weapons)
 
:rolleyes:Why not let's say, we spray sarin gas on each other. You ever wondered what's agreement on using chemical weapons. (Which is never use chemical weapons)

No chemical weapon, we will load pure poison from deadly scorpions which you would be able to confirm in your lab tests.
 
It's not only about ballistic missiles. This system hinders quick retaliatory strikes against Indian targets by creating resistance against our aircrafts and cruise missiles. We cannot be in a position where our only response is a ballistic missile.


In March 2017, General David Perkins of the U.S army bragged in a military symposiumabout the success which one of the “close U.S ally” had in shooting down a $200 dollar, purportedly hostile, quadcopter with the U.S made PATRIOT missile defense system. He did not name the particular country nor went into further specifics of the incident. But the mention itself, that a $200 worth toy grade drone was shot with a $3 million missile, was enough to raise a key question about the economic exchange disparity, which apparently provided a solution to penetrate through the highly-sophisticated Anti-Ballistic Missile Defense Systems such as the PATRIOT PAC-3 itself.

Terminal High Altitude Air Defense System (THAAD), PATRIOT PAC-3 and Aegis Naval System are the high-tech sophisticated systems which have a great success rate of intercepting a short-to-intermediate range projectile while on the other hand, Russia has S-400 and S-500 systems, as competitive as the U.S ones. The balance in South Asia was disturbed when India announced last month that it was going ahead to buy S-400 defense system in a deal worth $5 billion USD, despite the threat of U.S sanctions.

The development was particularly worrisome for Pakistan, a country which always has to follow the lead toward aggressive military ambitions of its foe India. Consequently, the opportunity cost is the economic and social growth of its people. Pakistan has never had the hostile or aggressive military policy to instigate the arms race with India for one simple reason; it cannot afford to do so by any means..


Why is Indian S-400 such a big deal?
Russian made S-400 system like any other ballistic missile defense system consists of a tracking, guidance and interception mechanism. A radar, which is the part of the assembly, tracks the incoming object which could either be a missile or an enemy aircraft within a range of 400 km and an altitude of 36 km, making it an endothermic defense module. After the flight path is analyzed, it fires its own missile which works on kinetic kill mechanism and neutralizes the incoming threat by colliding with it.



When Indian procurement of S-400 is juxtaposed with the 4++ generation Rafale jets it has ordered from France, it gives the country absolute air superiority over Pakistan. But Pakistan seems to have developed an economical response to India’s air cover which is most likely to make its impermeable airspace more penetrable even with such a high-end protective system.


MIRV – Pakistan’s Counter
The key technology which both USA and Russia were able to attain during the Cold War that ultimately forced them to sign an Anti-Ballistic Missile treaty was Multiple Independently Targetable Re-entry Vehicle or MIRV system. MIRV is basically a missile which has multiple missiles encapsulated in its pointed tip and upon re-entering the Earth’s atmosphere during its flight course, each missile leaves the body of the main frame and approaches its own target independently.


The ABM defense systems detect the incoming missile, which carries more missiles in its body, as a single target and launches a single interceptor to destroy it in the terminal phase of flight. With the ability to launch multiple warhead projectiles, MIRV drastically reduces the effectiveness of an Anti-Ballistic Missile Defense system. In January 2017, Pakistan became the first country to successfully test a Multiple Independently Targetable Re-entry Vehicle system, ABABEEL, in South Asia. A feat which was confirmed by the Defense Intelligence Agency of the U.S military makes Pakistan the only state in South Asia so far to have this technology.

An ABM radar assembly can detect the income hostile object violating the airspace of the country, but it cannot simply tell the type and nature of the incoming threat. To reduce the risk of interception for the actual warhead, ABABEEL can successfully be used as a decoy to engage as many missiles S-400 shoots as possible. The exact statistics to depict the cost of each missile are not available, but a unit is expected to be around $0.8-1 million dollars. In this way, Pakistan can use its low yielding, low-cost conventional missiles to devour expensive S-400 interceptor missiles.


Pakistan is relying heavily on the tactical nuclear weapons which have a limited yield to respond to the “Cold Start Doctrine”, The Indian Army’s New Limited War Doctrine. But the use of tactical nuclear weapons is hindered in practicality by one of the crucial clauses of India’s Nuclear Doctrine which advocates “massive, broad scale and terrible” nuclear response in case of a nuclear attack. So far the possession of nuclear weapons has been a major deterrent to a large spectrum conflict between two countries but the induction of S-400 system has initiated yet another race to achieve ultimate superiority which could be used for coercion.

The Doctrine of Mutual Annihilation”, which prevented a nuclear escalation for decades during the cold war, could serve as the illustration for both India and Pakistan leading to 1972 like American-Soviet ABM treaty. However, it is only possible if Pakistan inducts an Anti-Ballistic Missile Defense System of its own which could match the sophistication of S-400, or else India will always have, at least, the psychological superiority of imperviousness.
 
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I need her name for my research project my professor gave to me.
 
In March 2017, General David Perkins of the U.S army bragged in a military symposiumabout the success which one of the “close U.S ally” had in shooting down a $200 dollar, purportedly hostile, quadcopter with the U.S made PATRIOT missile defense system. He did not name the particular country nor went into further specifics of the incident. But the mention itself, that a $200 worth toy grade drone was shot with a $3 million missile, was enough to raise a key question about the economic exchange disparity, which apparently provided a solution to penetrate through the highly-sophisticated Anti-Ballistic Missile Defense Systems such as the PATRIOT PAC-3 itself.

Terminal High Altitude Air Defense System (THAAD), PATRIOT PAC-3 and Aegis Naval System are the high-tech sophisticated systems which have a great success rate of intercepting a short-to-intermediate range projectile while on the other hand, Russia has S-400 and S-500 systems, as competitive as the U.S ones. The balance in South Asia was disturbed when India announced last month that it was going ahead to buy S-400 defense system in a deal worth $5 billion USD, despite the threat of U.S sanctions.

The development was particularly worrisome for Pakistan, a country which always has to follow the lead toward aggressive military ambitions of its foe India. Consequently, the opportunity cost is the economic and social growth of its people. Pakistan has never had the hostile or aggressive military policy to instigate the arms race with India for one simple reason; it cannot afford to do so by any means..


Why is Indian S-400 such a big deal?
Russian made S-400 system like any other ballistic missile defense system consists of a tracking, guidance and interception mechanism. A radar, which is the part of the assembly, tracks the incoming object which could either be a missile or an enemy aircraft within a range of 400 km and an altitude of 36 km, making it an endothermic defense module. After the flight path is analyzed, it fires its own missile which works on kinetic kill mechanism and neutralizes the incoming threat by colliding with it.



When Indian procurement of S-400 is juxtaposed with the 4++ generation Rafale jets it has ordered from France, it gives the country absolute air superiority over Pakistan. But Pakistan seems to have developed an economical response to India’s air cover which is most likely to make its impermeable airspace more penetrable even with such a high-end protective system.


MIRV – Pakistan’s Counter
The key technology which both USA and Russia were able to attain during the Cold War that ultimately forced them to sign an Anti-Ballistic Missile treaty was Multiple Independently Targetable Re-entry Vehicle or MIRV system. MIRV is basically a missile which has multiple missiles encapsulated in its pointed tip and upon re-entering the Earth’s atmosphere during its flight course, each missile leaves the body of the main frame and approaches its own target independently.


The ABM defense systems detect the incoming missile, which carries more missiles in its body, as a single target and launches a single interceptor to destroy it in the terminal phase of flight. With the ability to launch multiple warhead projectiles, MIRV drastically reduces the effectiveness of an Anti-Ballistic Missile Defense system. In January 2017, Pakistan became the first country to successfully test a Multiple Independently Targetable Re-entry Vehicle system, ABABEEL, in South Asia. A feat which was confirmed by the Defense Intelligence Agency of the U.S military makes Pakistan the only state in South Asia so far to have this technology.

An ABM radar assembly can detect the income hostile object violating the airspace of the country, but it cannot simply tell the type and nature of the incoming threat. To reduce the risk of interception for the actual warhead, ABABEEL can successfully be used as a decoy to engage as many missiles S-400 shoots as possible. The exact statistics to depict the cost of each missile are not available, but a unit is expected to be around $0.8-1 million dollars. In this way, Pakistan can use its low yielding, low-cost conventional missiles to devour expensive S-400 interceptor missiles.


Pakistan is relying heavily on the tactical nuclear weapons which have a limited yield to respond to the “Cold Start Doctrine”, The Indian Army’s New Limited War Doctrine. But the use of tactical nuclear weapons is hindered in practicality by one of the crucial clauses of India’s Nuclear Doctrine which advocates “massive, broad scale and terrible” nuclear response in case of a nuclear attack. So far the possession of nuclear weapons has been a major deterrent to a large spectrum conflict between two countries but the induction of S-400 system has initiated yet another race to achieve ultimate superiority which could be used for coercion.

The Doctrine of Mutual Annihilation”, which prevented a nuclear escalation for decades during the cold war, could serve as the illustration for both India and Pakistan leading to 1972 like American-Soviet ABM treaty. However, it is only possible if Pakistan inducts an Anti-Ballistic Missile Defense System of its own which could match the sophistication of S-400, or else India will always have, at least, the psychological superiority of imperviousness.

This article adds nothing new to the discussion. Key facts:

1. Indian air defence is multi-layered. Low cost solutions such as anti-aircraft guns and small range missiles for low value targets, high cost solutions for high value targets.

2. In a cold start scenario, time will be of essence. In the absence of equally respectable air defence, PAF will be tied up countering the S-400 while Indian stand-off weapons wreak havoc on Pakistani high value targets.

3. And finally, what I already said earlier: Ababeel is a solution of last resort. Once a ballistic missile is fired, all bets are off. India retains the full right to retaliate with massive nuclear strike in response to any incoming ballistic missile.

4. In the light of 1 - 3 above, it becomes easy for India to call Pakistan's nuclear bluff. That is NOT a situation we want to be in. Or, if we want to be in that situation, we need a Chief Marshal Law Administrator such as Zia ul Haq. Even Musharraf was a Western puppet. Do we have the balls to do the needful when the time comes? I don't think so.
 
Or
There is only one option . Raptor F-22. But USA will.not sell it to anyone.
Or j31 stealth jet which Chinese are gonna sell and they already have s400 so know it's weak points ;)

This article adds nothing new to the discussion. Key facts:

1. Indian air defence is multi-layered. Low cost solutions such as anti-aircraft guns and small range missiles for low value targets, high cost solutions for high value targets.

2. In a cold start scenario, time will be of essence. In the absence of equally respectable air defence, PAF will be tied up countering the S-400 while Indian stand-off weapons wreak havoc on Pakistani high value targets.

3. And finally, what I already said earlier: Ababeel is a solution of last resort. Once a ballistic missile is fired, all bets are off. India retains the full right to retaliate with massive nuclear strike in response to any incoming ballistic missile.

4. In the light of 1 - 3 above, it becomes easy for India to call Pakistan's nuclear bluff. That is NOT a situation we want to be in. Or, if we want to be in that situation, we need a Chief Marshal Law Administrator such as Zia ul Haq. Even Musharraf was a Western puppet. Do we have the balls to do the needful when the time comes? I don't think so.
The radar can tell the speed and size of India intruder not it's value we can fire low cost solid rocket power drones with right angulation on surface there would generate a much bigger radar signature then their actual size drone swarm is a real problem for air defense it's just that for past several years since drone tech evolved there was no conflict between near peers
 
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