How Pakistan can become an economic force in the region?

[M. Sarmad]

It is amazing how Muslim sounding poster repeat Hindu propaganda as if it was some divine wahi.


Oh Bhai sahib

Do you ever, i mean ever ever stop to think for even a single second

That if Pakistan was created in the name of Islamism, then why ever forking Mullah worth the girth of his toand aka bear belly, Was forking AGAINST Pakistan?

Do you ever ask yourself why every forking Mullah worth more than 10 cents was part of Indian Congress?

Do you ever ask yourself why every forking Mullah worth something (Mullah Murdoodi as number 1) had all declared Jinnah as Kafir?


So would you pause and think?

would you?

would you?

please pretty please?

Because such things are not included in "Pak Studies" taught in our schools ..

They dont tell us that the Religious Conservatives were strongly opposed to the idea of creation of Pakistan ..

If Jinnah desired a "Islamic Constitution" , then why was a "Hindu" (Jogendra Nath Mandal) nominated as provisional president of the Pakistan Constituent Assembly to preside over its first session on Aug. 11 ??

Jogendra Nath Mandal is not mentioned even once .. He was one of the central and leading Founding Fathers of modern state of Pakistan, and legislator serving as country's first minister of law and labor, and also was second minister of commonwealth and Kashmir affairs


Only after the demise of Muhammad Ali Jinnah , Liaquat Ali Khan (The first PM) adopted conservative philosophy, principles, ideas, and traditions , and he did so to gain political support as there was no one(including himself) who could effectively replace Jinnah , as the leader of Pakistan

Jinnah had said : “You are free, you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any place of worship in this state of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed — that has nothing to do with the business of the state.”

Unfortunately Liaquat Ali was successful in authoring the Objectives Resolution and getting it passed from the state parliament, roughly declaring Islam as state religion .. The oppurtunists had their oppurtunity and they utilized it to their benefits ..



The People of Pakistan rejected this "Islamization" by electing "secular socialists" against the conservatives in 1954 elections in East Pakistan .. The united front secured 223 seats in the 309 -member assembly (with Awami League winning 143 seats)..
The West Pakistan provincial elections were described as "a farce, a mockery and a fraud upon the electorate" by electoral reform commission in 1956.

In 1956 , the conservatives gave the country her first constitution , The "Objectives Resolution" of Liaquat Ali Khan was included as the "preamble" and the country was named as "Islamic Republic of Pakistan" , (ofcourse without considering the will of the majority of people)

Earlier In 1951 Maj. Gen. Akbar Khan, the chief of general staff of the Pakistani army , along with some civilians including leading Pakistani poet Faiz Ahmed Faiz, who was notably active in left-wing politics and sympathetic to the Communist Party of Pakistan and Sajjad Zaheer ,had tried to overthrow the conservative govt. of Liquat Ali Khan .. But was unsuccessful ..


General Ayub Khan imposed the first Martial Law in country in 1958 . He omitted the word "Islamic" from the official name of state ; amid protests, Ayub Khan re added that word later as he seeked support of conservatives for his election as President of the state ..

When the martial law was finally lifted and the country had her first general elections in 1970 , The conservative parties produced a performed poor electoral performance . Only Pakistan Muslim League (PML) led by Nurul Amin had gained considerable votes from all over the country; the JeI faced with an embarrassing election result winning only 4 out of the 300 seats.


So the religious conservatives had never been popular among general public (neither in east Pakistan , nor in the west).. The leftist ideas dominated PPP gained much support from the public and won overwhelming majority in west Pakistan in 1970 general elections ... ZA Bhutto tried to make the Islamists happy by adding a few so called "Islamic Provisions" in the constitution of the country (His worst political mistake)..

A few years later Martial law was imposed by Gen. Zia ul Haq which marked the beginning of the era of "unlimited sufferings" of the Pakistani nation .. To this day we are paying the price of Zia`s Islamist policies ..

The "Islamisation" of Pakistan has always been a "political tool" of the illegitimate and power hungry leaders .. The so called "Islamic provisions" in our constitution practically provide a shelter to terrorism and Islamic extremism .. untill &unless we seperate religion from state business , there is no hope of any peace or progress in the country ....

 

[AhsanAmin]

The "Islamisation" of Pakistan has always been a "political tool" of the illegitimate and power hungry leaders .. The so called "Islamic provisions" in our constitution practically provide a shelter to terrorism and Islamic extremism .. untill &unless we seperate religion from state business , there is no hope of any peace or progress in the country

Thank you for the good historical background but A few points have to noted.

1. No Islamic party in our country wins more than a few seats.
2. Our Army promotes Islamic fundamentalists where it likes (Bombay misadventure) and kills them where it does not like them(KPK province).
3. Most of the nation is wary of extremism still fundamentalists continue to explode bombs in the cities and sectarian violence continues.

As I see state consistently, systematically and ideologically really does not promote/discourage Islam. However vested interests within the state and outside the state do continue to do what suits them.

I do not think many Islamic provisions hinder our progress, however, if they are unjustified on human grounds in some way, they should be removed, which is not an excuse to say that they hinder our prosperity.

Somebody else pointed towards blasphemy laws, they should be repealed as such. To curb sectarianism and blasphemy type problems, if there have to be any laws for the country, they should apply evenly to muslims and non-muslims. The idea of muslims making fun of hindus due to their religion and hindus getting punished by law when they make fun of Islamic figures, seems unjust and cruel to me. There could be some well-thought laws that study various aspects of the problem to curb sectarianism and blasphemy problems, that apply evenly to all religions and sects.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Thank you for the good historical background but A few points have to noted.

1. No Islamic party in our country wins more than a few seats.
2. Our Army promotes Islamic fundamentalists where it likes (Bombay misadventure) and kills them where it does not like them(KPK province).
3. Most of the nation is wary of extremism still fundamentalists continue to explode bombs in the cities and sectarian violence continues.

As I see state consistently, systematically and ideologically really does not promote/discourage Islam. However vested interests within the state and outside the state do continue to do what suits them.

I do not think many Islamic provisions hinder our progress, however, if they are unjustified on human grounds in some way, they should be removed, which is not an excuse to say that they hinder our prosperity.

Somebody else pointed towards blasphemy laws, they should be repealed as such. To curb sectarianism and blasphemy type problems, if there have to be any laws for the country, they should apply evenly to muslims and non-muslims. The idea of muslims making fun of hindus due to their religion and hindus getting punished by law when they make fun of Islamic figures, seems unjust and cruel to me. There could be some well-thought laws that study various aspects of the problem to curb sectarianism and blasphemy problems, that apply evenly to all religions and sects.

Pakistan was the first country in the world to add the Adjective "Islamic" to its republican status in 1956 .. Though the constitution itself remained largely secular untill 1973 , when Islam was declared to be the state religion ..

This was the first "step" in the "wrong direction" .. Initially the "name" of Islam was added to state by conservatives like Liquat Ali with a hope of strengthening their personal rules . It was a good political move as the conservatives had a "agenda" now and they tried to exploit the newly born nation of Pakistan by mixing the concept of "a country for better socio-economic chances for muslims of Indian sub-continent" with a totally different concept of "a country for propagation and protection of islamic religion" .....

Islam and "a democratic republic" are in fact contradicting philosophies and can not co-exist ... Over the course of time , "Islamic" part gained strength and "Republic" grew weaker and weaker.... And the result is in front of us now , The Islamists may not win seats in elections , but they are very influential and no "govt." can afford to make them angry ..


Have you ever wondered that when India made a Nuclear Bomb , No one called it a "Hindu Bomb" but when Pakistan did the same , it was labelled as "Islamic Bomb" ...
We were not the first one to have nukes in the world but the whole world saw our nukes as a "threat" .. That is what happens when you have "State Religions" in 21st century !!




Article 227(1) of our constitution states : All existing laws shall be brought in conformity with the Injunctions of Islam as laid down in the Holy Quran and Sunnah, in this Part referred to as the Injunctions of Islam, and no law shall be enacted which is repugnant to such Injunctions.

The Taliban claim that govt. has failed to implement the constitution properly and their fight is for the implementation of constitution



The Article 20 (b) states : Every religious denomination and every sect thereof shall have the right to establish, maintain and manage its religious institutions

The Article 22 (3) a : no religious community or denomination shall be prevented from providing religious instruction for pupils of that community or denomination in any educational institution maintained wholly by that community or denomination;


With all this in our constitution , we can not stop our Madrassahs from spreading sectarianism and producing terrorists

 

[Pandora]

We have nothing to go yahoo about Sharia. It is demanded by pro Islamic people in Pakistan. You have blasphemy law.

Again as i said earlier this has nothing to do with economy. One can go ten rounds on how good india is in terms of religious tolerance but unlike others i would rather like to clean my own house first.

 

[ghilzai]

The model has failed. It has not worked so only option left is secularism.



Absolutely false. Religion has nothing to do with culture. How do you perform marriages? Do you perform Arab type rituals? What movies do you see? Which language you speak and understand? Answer this. You will get your answer.




You see we do not need any certificate from you. In addition to WWE, it might have reminded so many things to you. Citizen of a country where it is taught that J for Jalim with a picture of Shikh and have blasphemy law may think like that. Not your fault duby. Good bye. This is my last post in response to your post on this thread. Have a good day.

Movies that I watch are Hollywood and pushto that language I speak is pushto and English so hopefully you would have got your answer.

Ref the marriages we have different types of ceremonies here but one going around the fire is non existant.

Problem with you is you think everyone is pakistan is the same abd they speak the same and look the same and since you have that mentality.

 

[funtoosh]

paksitan , will it become economic powerhourse? I don't konw

by following Islamic banking and implementing sharia, islam guarantees prosperity

 

[FaujHistorian]

Pakistan was the first country in the world to add the Adjective "Islamic" to its republican status in 1956 .. Though the constitution itself remained largely secular untill 1973 , when Islam was declared to be the state religion ..

This was the first "step" in the "wrong direction" .. Initially the "name" of Islam was added to state by conservatives like Liquat Ali with a hope of strengthening their personal rules . It was a good political move as the conservatives had a "agenda" now and they tried to exploit the newly born nation of Pakistan by mixing the concept of "a country for better socio-economic chances for muslims of Indian sub-continent" with a totally different concept of "a country for propagation and protection of islamic religion" .....

Islam and "a democratic republic" are in fact contradicting philosophies and can not co-exist ... Over the course of time , "Islamic" part gained strength and "Republic" grew weaker and weaker.... And the result is in front of us now , The Islamists may not win seats in elections , but they are very influential and no "govt." can afford to make them angry ..


Have you ever wondered that when India made a Nuclear Bomb , No one called it a "Hindu Bomb" but when Pakistan did the same , it was labelled as "Islamic Bomb" ...
We were not the first one to have nukes in the world but the whole world saw our nukes as a "threat" .. That is what happens when you have "State Religions" in 21st century !!




Article 227(1) of our constitution states : All existing laws shall be brought in conformity with the Injunctions of Islam as laid down in the Holy Quran and Sunnah, in this Part referred to as the Injunctions of Islam, and no law shall be enacted which is repugnant to such Injunctions.

The Taliban claim that govt. has failed to implement the constitution properly and their fight is for the implementation of constitution



The Article 20 (b) states : Every religious denomination and every sect thereof shall have the right to establish, maintain and manage its religious institutions

The Article 22 (3) a : no religious community or denomination shall be prevented from providing religious instruction for pupils of that community or denomination in any educational institution maintained wholly by that community or denomination;


With all this in our constitution , we can not stop our Madrassahs from spreading sectarianism and producing terrorists

Well stated.


1. Most of Pakistani educated elite have no forking idea what "republic" is.
-- Republic simply means no forking Mullah preaching divinity nor a forking king can make laws.
-- So anyone calling Islamic Republic is like throwing $hit on beautiful republican flower. Obviously you will never smell the beautiful flower of republic as long is it is coated with stinky smelly stuff.


2. Most of us copy paste European terms without ever trying to understand the basics and roots of these terms.

-- Republic is just one of those terms that we borrow copy steal but never try to spend even a minute to understand the damned concept.

-- "Rule of law" is another European concept, that strictly removes any kind of divine mumbo jumbo from the jurisprudence.
And yet so many Pakistanis continue mixing a refined European concept with pathetic tribalism.


So I urge you to follow along the quest of knowledge as shown by our eminent scholar, our bro @Azlan Haider instead repeating the religious mumbo jumbo aka ignorance and arrogance in Pakistan.

Thank you.

 

[RiazHaq]

Pl read some reliable news and Not Haq's musing as your posts become amusing.

Do you even know the difference between news and data? Data from credible sources like the World Bank?

http://www-wds.worldbank.org/extern...d/PDF/574280PUB0Pers1351B0Extop0ID0186890.pdf

 

[M. Sarmad]

So I urge you to follow along the quest of knowledge as shown by our eminent scholar, our bro @Azlan Haider instead repeating the religious mumbo jumbo aka ignorance and arrogance in Pakistan.
Thank you.

??

 

[Chronos]

Do u know in China, Germany Education is free.

Germany. I like their policies post world war 2.

In a survey, they are also the most well liked country in the world.

 

[Slayer786]

1) By dilinking itself from terror
2) practicing secularism
3) Improving relationship with India.
4) Self reliance.
5) Focusing on science and technology.
6) realigning itself with its cultural identity
7) By stop bagging from international community
8) Dropping China as strategic partner.

Except from the last part. I thought you were writing the things about India to do.
Funny.
Also, Pakistan do not beg. It takes loans and pays it with interest. thats not begging, thats just business. Otherwise why would World Bank and IMF and Asian Development Bank give free money. Use your common sense, if you have any please before writing.

 

[HariPrasad]

Also, Pakistan do not beg. It takes loans and pays it with interest. thats not begging, thats just business. Otherwise why would World Bank and IMF and Asian Development Bank give free money. Use your common sense, if you have any please before writing.

Some Pakistani members may perceive Answer to this post some what offensive. So I avoid further discussion.

 

[HariPrasad]

Do you even know the difference between news and data? Data from credible sources like the World Bank?

http://www-wds.worldbank.org/extern...d/PDF/574280PUB0Pers1351B0Extop0ID0186890.pdf

Idiots never grow up and post huge report which is very difficult to read in place of extract. Now look at page no 6 graph of poverty in rural and urban area. It clearly shows that it was reduced to around 20% in 2006 (i.e 7 years ago). It must have reduced a lot since than.

Pl see this also:

Figure 20
Fertility Is Declining, and Many Indian States Resemble More Developed Countries
births per women
Sources:
National Family Health Survey for India and Indian states; EUROSTAT 2008 for European countries; StatCan for Canada; AUSTATS f
or


And this on Page no 43:

Figure 1.1
Evolution of Poverty since the Early 1980s
Source:
Authors’ estimates using unit-record NSS Schedule 1.0 data.
Note:
Data based on uniform recall period consumption aggregates and offi cial Planning Commission poverty lines.


Now come come and discuss. At least make sure that your reference do not counter your argument.

 

[AhsanAmin]

ng the things about India to do.
Funny.
Also, Pakistan do not beg. It takes loans and pays it with interest. thats not begging, thats just business. Otherwise why would World Bank and IMF and Asian Development Bank give free money. Use your common sense, if you have any please before writing.

This is our simpleton point of view. The loans from IMF, world bank and ADB are rarely given without approval from the USA and its allies. And they impose very strict conditions that have to be followed in order to borrow from them. This is a way to affect our decision making and steering of economy in a way it suits those powers. Many many times, the conditions imposed are against the best path we have to follow in order to benefit our economy. World Bank's president is chosen by American president and IMF's head is chosen by Europeans. They do not give a loan to us until they get a nod of approval from US and Europeans. It is not just business, it is both international politics and some business that keeps a country continuing to beg more and more and never be determined to become self-reliant.

Getting a loan in the time of crisis may not be a foolish thing to do but continuing to borrow more and more with foreign political influence and foreign imposed conditions, is really harmful for interests of the country.

If it were true business, as you stated, Pakistan could borrow from international commercial banks who are never ready to lend us easily. Cheaper loans come at a cost that might not always be good for us.

 

[Slayer786]

It is pointless to compare economy of Pakistan with India as both have different population and resources. India is going to be in the top three by the end of the decade, while Pakistan will barely manage to improve on the previous years.
If we look at the economy from 2000 onwards in Human development Index measurement, we can see how it has gone down from Musharraf's era to the present.

Human Development Report 2013: The Rise of the South: As others rise, Pakistan parks the bus
By Maha Mussadaq
Published: March 28, 2013

ISLAMABAD:
As Pakistan goes through a political transition, the UNDP’s Human Development Report 2013 provides a scathing critique of the previous government’s five-year term.

According to the report, which was launched on Wednesday, the portrait of Pakistan, which stands 146 out of 186 countries measured using the Human Development Index (HDI), does not inspire much confidence regarding the living conditions of the average Pakistani.

According to the report’s HDI list, between 2000 and 2007, which roughly corresponds with General Pervez Musharraf’s regime, the Human Development Index rose 18.9 per cent — an annual average of 2.7 per cent.

From 2007 to 2012 it only went up by 3.4 per cent, just under 0.7 per cent per annum. Somehow, things got even worse in the last three years of that time frame, with HDI increases crashing down as low as 0.59% — a negligible average annual increase of under 0.20 per cent.

The 2013 Human Development Report “The Rise of the South: Human Progress in a Diverse World” is instrumental in the context of Pakistan, especially given the challenges faced today due to poor policy choices that have been confronted in the report.

Meeting a small group of journalists here, Marc André Franche, UNDP Pakistan’s Country Director launched the report and said it is important for what it says and there are lessons to be learnt from countries with preconditions similar to Pakistan.

UNDP officials believe that findings of the report will be an eye opener for policy makers that need to focus on key sectors such as health and education in order to move towards development. At the moment, Pakistan falls in the “low human development” category. Pakistan’s expenditure on social sectors is lower than some of the poorest African countries such as the Democratic Republic of Congo, which spends 1.2% of GDP on health and 6.2% on education, versus Pakistan’s 0.8% on health and 1.8% on education. Bangladesh, India and Sri Lanka also spend higher amounts on both sectors.

In fact, Pakistan is one of only four countries in the region that are ranked in the low HDI group, alongside, Bangladesh, Afghanistan and Nepal.

The report says that 49 per cent of Pakistan’s population lives in poverty. The HDI’s Multidimensional Poverty Index — an alternative to income-based poverty estimates — shows the proportion of the population living in multidimensional poverty is high throughout South Asia, with the highest rates in Bangladesh and India, at 58 and 54 per cent respectively, followed by Pakistan.

The report also states Pakistani politics are primarily dominated by a political elite consisting of roughly 100 families that can afford electioneering.

Source:Published in The Express Tribune, March 28th, 2013.