How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[Bratva]

SO PAF TACTICS of overcoming the MKI is to sit on the defensive in their own back yard under cover of their AWACS & GCC & sam COVER...

Seems to me your paf has HANDED THE IAF the intiative to conduct the war at their desired location/targets and their desired speed & intensity.

YOUR PAF retaliation tactic of cruise missle strrikes is very flawed and very HIT & MISS.

NO ONE EVER ACHIEVD AIR SUPERIORITY USING BALLISTIC MISSLES ONLY .

bit like saddam hussains tactics with his SCUDS proved to be rubbish doctrine

Sometimes i like to hit my head in wall... COmpare how Guidance systems of BM has evolved now since Saddam Era and how in Libyan Conflict, US used tomahawk to destroy the Air defenses of Libyan forces. If cruise missiles were flawed or hit or miss we would have seen it in Libyan or Gulf War 2 conflicts. Instead of just generalizing, try to bring concrete data to support your BS claim that cruise missiles are flawed or very hit and miss in south asian scenario. Plus with the emergence of ALCM and Upgraded Ballistic Missile Shaheen 1 A. All indian airbases are very much unsecured.!

The development of cruise missiles were major game changer. It allowed PA and PAF to conduct precision strikes without sending larke strike packages of PAF and thus obtaining the offensive edge and allowed them to remain concentrated in defensive posture at home

 

[danger007]

In this thread and remaining IAF or MKI related threads i only learned some points...
1. mav3rick said PAF do have ground EW assets and Awacs to Jam the IAF awacs.. and some other member said IAF don't have EW assets to Jam the PAF awacs..
2. and some other members (Pakistani) said PAF role will be purely defensive, so it hold the home advantage (AWACS+SAM's +Radars+others)... so you guys think IAF will be aggressor... In that case IAF primary aim is to destroy your ground assets, that is why Super su-30mki and brahmos Integration.
3. F-16 will give upper hand for PAF. how many F-16 blk 52 is with PAF? how many will stay in reserve command?
4. some other member said we have large area to defend... where as pakistan do have small area to defend.. we got problem with 2 countries... and we do have strategic bases for them. we are happy to say that we surrounded three sides with ocean.... you don't have long legs to attack us deep inside our territory...

Final conclusion is India will be aggressor so MKI is not useful against PAF because PAF have sam's,awacs, ew ,F-16,JF-17 holds advantage because of it's RCS is lower than MKI...
@sancho, @Storm Force, and other Indian members.. please guys how many days you will argue like this.. come to one conclusion...

 

[Storm Force]

Tommahawk

Cruise missles are guided by GPS satalites.

Stop comparing a multi billion dollar tommahawk cruise missle with FIRE AND FORGET programme costing a few million dollars.

If indian bases are unsecured I SUGGEST PAF BASES are comparitvely NAKED . The reason PAF bases are NAKED you people have invested virtually zero on long range sam cover. YOUR RELYING ON man pads with ranges of 4km .

I mean common on man a few terrirsts blew your AWACS up in your own city airfield...

 

[Bratva]

Tommahawk

Cruise missles are guided by GPS satalites.

Stop comparing a multi billion dollar tommahawk cruise missle with FIRE AND FORGET programme costing a few million dollars.

If indian bases are unsecured I SUGGEST PAF BASES are comparitvely NAKED . The reason PAF bases are NAKED you people have invested virtually zero on long range sam cover. YOUR RELYING ON man pads with ranges of 4km .

I mean common on man a few terrirsts blew your AWACS up in your own city airfield...

The bolded part showed your desperataion and how little you knew about babur F&F capability and how little you knew about it's linkup to Beidou navigation system Plus GPS is needed if you want CEP of less than <5 M. All the navigation systems in Babur CM i.e INS, DSMAC and TERCOM are their for a purpose Smarty pants and in 2012 test, babur CEP was calculated 2 meter, go read up BABUR info thread to really lighten your brain. If CM were to be guided by GPS. than INS would have been sufficient. You really need to update yourself about the things going around you

Rest of your post is purely a hysterical rants not worth responding because you were owned in previous post and instead of admitting your mistake, you are trying to desperately divert the discussion

 

[Bratva]

In this thread and remaining IAF or MKI related threads i only learned some points...
1. mav3rick said PAF do have ground EW assets and Awacs to Jam the IAF awacs.. and some other member said IAF don't have EW assets to Jam the PAF awacs..
2. and some other members (Pakistani) said PAF role will be purely defensive, so it hold the home advantage (AWACS+SAM's +Radars+others)... so you guys think IAF will be aggressor... In that case IAF primary aim is to destroy your ground assets, that is why Super su-30mki and brahmos Integration.
3. F-16 will give upper hand for PAF. how many F-16 blk 52 is with PAF? how many will stay in reserve command?
4. some other member said we have large area to defend... where as pakistan do have small area to defend.. we got problem with 2 countries... and we do have strategic bases for them. we are happy to say that we surrounded three sides with ocean.... you don't have long legs to attack us deep inside our territory...

Final conclusion is India will be aggressor so MKI is not useful against PAF because PAF have sam's,awacs, ew ,F-16,JF-17 holds advantage because of it's RCS is lower than MKI...
@sancho, @Storm Force, and other Indian members.. please guys how many days you will argue like this.. come to one conclusion...

Land Attack Cruise Missiles and Air Launch Cruise Missiles in PA and PAF inventory are their for a reason, to give them the limited offensive capability to strike your Airbases. So keep dreaming that IAF will have an advantage of being an aggressor.

SO PAF TACTICS of overcoming the MKI is to sit on the defensive in their own back yard under cover of their AWACS & GCC & sam COVER...

Seems to me your paf has HANDED THE IAF the intiative to conduct the war at their desired location/targets and their desired speed & intensity.

YOUR PAF retaliation tactic of cruise missle strrikes is very flawed and very HIT & MISS.

NO ONE EVER ACHIEVD AIR SUPERIORITY USING BALLISTIC MISSLES ONLY .

bit like saddam hussains tactics with his SCUDS proved to be rubbish doctrine

As if we are living in a an era where pakistan has no advance Cruise missiles and Ballistic missiles to hit your Military And Airbase installations!

 

[GURU DUTT]

Land Attack Cruise Missiles and Air Launch Cruise Missiles in PA and PAF inventory are their for a reason, to give them the limited offensive capability to strike your Airbases. So keep dreaming that IAF will have an advantage of being an aggressor.



As if we are living in a an era where pakistan has no advance Cruise missiles and Ballistic missiles to hit your Military And Airbase installations!

well sir with all deu respects do you have any idea about indian AA batteries and the ground support both interms of electronik servivelence and human resources well im not a very technikal person but sir when u harp about sabotaging tactiks we can onli laugh as IA is not PA and there is hell lot of differnce in protection and assets of the both and as for your super dubar babur and Raad well sir do you have any idea about the BM's in indian inventory to do the same to you and also take in account the diff and time they both take vice versa and not to mention the multi layerd radar and AA combo capabilitiers what IAF & IA have over the PA & PAF well you could denai it but cant ignoare it and about gudence and cpabilities of cruise missiles well sir dont forget about owr AAD ,PAD,Akash , SPYDER & some russian and French stuff + the backing of SATS & greenpines + PHalcons he he he he now bring some thing new as this thread suggests

Re: How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...hould-counter-su-30-mki-95.html#ixzz2H4ivzMjd

 

[Mav3rick]

well sir with all deu respects do you have any idea about indian AA batteries and the ground support both interms of electronik servivelence and human resources well im not a very technikal person but sir when u harp about sabotaging tactiks we can onli laugh as IA is not PA and there is hell lot of differnce in protection and assets of the both and as for your super dubar babur and Raad well sir do you have any idea about the BM's in indian inventory to do the same to you and also take in account the diff and time they both take vice versa and not to mention the multi layerd radar and AA combo capabilitiers what IAF & IA have over the PA & PAF well you could denai it but cant ignoare it and about gudence and cpabilities of cruise missiles well sir dont forget about owr AAD ,PAD,Akash , SPYDER & some russian and French stuff + the backing of SATS & greenpines + PHalcons he he he he now bring some thing new as this thread suggests

Re: How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...hould-counter-su-30-mki-95.html#ixzz2H4ivzMjd

You are expanding the topic of this discussion from countering the MKI within PAF Air Space to overall suppression of enemy air defense tactics and air superiority over IAF by PAF which the PAF was never raised for! PAF would only venture deep into IAF territory when it is quite certain that it will be able to deliver a package and return safely which will only happen when IAF air superiority fighters are eliminated (which is quite unlikely).

 

[Armstrong]

@GURU DUTT : Yeh eik Tharkii Brigade ki member ka kiyaa kaam haiii aisiii threads parrr ?

P.S All the things you mentioned in your post...we've got them too perhaps not pound for pound but eve still; which means even at a conventional level the deterrence probably holds.

 

[Mav3rick]

Tommahawk

Cruise missles are guided by GPS satalites.

Stop comparing a multi billion dollar tommahawk cruise missle with FIRE AND FORGET programme costing a few million dollars.

If indian bases are unsecured I SUGGEST PAF BASES are comparitvely NAKED . The reason PAF bases are NAKED you people have invested virtually zero on long range sam cover. YOUR RELYING ON man pads with ranges of 4km .

I mean common on man a few terrirsts blew your AWACS up in your own city airfield...

You do realize that you are speaking of 2 totally different scenarios, 1 where the attack happens during peace time but still by a bunch of highly trained, highly skilled commandos that were equipped with highly sophisticated night time fighting ability that even PAF operators lacked on their base? And the other is an attack by IAF.

Personally, I believe the airforce was caught with its pants down and severely wanting as they should have had some contingency plans for such situations. However, the sophistication of the attack and the help and support provided by insiders was extremely helpful to the terrorists.

By the way, study the history of Pakistan Military and try to find out how many times they have disclosed their true capabilities unless there is a specific reason to do so. Many of my esteemed co members of the forum have disclosed secrets that offer insight of what PAF operated to defend itself against IAF Fighters, many times it has been disclosed what kind of assets PAF operates especially the long range SAM systems.

We are of the opinion that Indians boast about weapons systems that they may 'yet acquire' and start figuring and counting it as part of an integrated system. However PakMil does not disclose most of her acquisitions and assets are only revealed when the time is right, be it JFT/Ra'ad/Babur etc., although these may be floated by pdf members through rumors earlier, these things are never disclosed by the military until they absolutely have to, for some reason.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

Read post 1372 and 1370. R Darter has been in PAF service for quite some time now.

Only a very very thin source present about that. It has been reported only once in 2010. Doesn't exactly fit the definition of a reliable source.

Listen kid I told you before this tactic has been employed successfully by the Israeli's, the US, the Swedes and the Japanese.
As a matter of fact an Indian Air Force Mirage pilot and squadron leader made the same suggestion for a AWACS busting mission. The only difference between what I suggested and what he proposed is the armament since the IAF Mirage does not have anti-radiation missile he proposed the use of BVR missiles and since the Mirage does not have short take off capability he proposed following low flying fighters on a ground strike mission popping up to take a BVR shot once beyond the slant range of the airborne radar.

Can you give me a link of what IAF squadron leader said?

How does anybody know whether the Mirages were armed with BVR or not? I mean why upgrade them with a BVR capable radar if they were never going to use a BVR? But why the fuss, the Mirages can use a BVR today right?

They can't use BVRs till they have BVRs.

 

[GURU DUTT]

@GURU DUTT : Yeh eik Tharkii Brigade ki member ka kiyaa kaam haiii aisiii threads parrr ?

P.S All the things you mentioned in your post...we've got them too perhaps not pound for pound but eve still; which means even at a conventional level the deterrence probably holds.

Sirji tharki lg bhee insan hi hote hain na aur muhib ul watan bhee

baki baat palle nahi pari jara aam bhasha me samjhaosirji

 

[Armstrong]

Sirji tharki lg bhee insan hi hote hain na aur muhi ul watan bhee

baki baat palle nahi pari jara aam bhasha me samjhaosirji

I miss @cheekybird & the old gang !

Meraa matlaab thaa keh aap kee paaas bhii baraa kuch hai aur hamareii passs bhii bohat kuch haiii eikk dosreiii kii bohat casualties karniii ke liyee even in a purely non-nuclear conventional war isss wasteiii junnng hoii giii hiii nahin because both High Commands would weigh up the probable costs of even a conventional war & digress.

Abbb ziyadaaa seh ziyadaa koiii isolated skirmish yaa phir stand-offs hon gain !

 

[GURU DUTT]

I miss @cheekybird & the old gang !

Meraa matlaab thaa keh aap kee paaas bhii baraa kuch hai aur hamareii passs bhii bohat kuch haiii eikk dosreiii kii bohat casualties karniii ke liyee even in a purely non-nuclear conventional war isss wasteiii junnng hoii giii hiii nahin because both High Commands would weigh up the probable costs of even a conventional war & digress.

Abbb ziyadaaa seh ziyadaa koiii isolated skirmish yaa phir stand-offs hon gain !

Sirji uska naam leke to apne mere ko imotional ker diya hai

well sir i was saying the samethatpaskitani and indian commands both cant do any thing to each other as we already have too much on owr hands to handle but i guess this thread is good and im Lovin it

 

[DARKY]

Yes I agree there will be counter measured such as jamming or creating dummy EM noise. I found a pic showing the specifications of the MKI radar in the presence of natural / organised counter measures. Still its detection range is 135 km air to air. Which is more than enough to fire a volley of long range BVR's to the enemy formations.

https://e68a5715-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites...GIg0Sfop5M-9nfYjEMuv6YtaaicASw&attredirects=1

The detection range presented on the poster is the training mode figures... with the radar operating 1KW maximum.... or just the figures required for illumination of wave tube.. which had the ratings for about 4KW maximum... those have been replaced by wave tubes in the ratings between 7 to 10KW... over the time.

These figures describe the performance at peak power.

The AESA selected for Su30MKI wold have ratings in between 10-15 watt/Channel... equating for upto about 16 to 24KW peak power.

 

[Mav3rick]

They can't use BVRs till they have BVRs.

But that's my point, some speculate that PAF had undisclosed BVR capability, others claim otherwise. I guess we will never know. Even AIM-120C5 were disclosed because they were part of a package deal and I guess because the US announces its deals with PAF. SD-10 was disclosed because it is expected to arm the JFT which Pakistan & China wish to export to other countries. Otherwise these would have remained a secret.