How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[DARKY]

Kindly stop repeating the same posted message again and again. No matter how many TRM's Phalcon has, it can still only look as far as 450km's and Erieye too can see as far as 450km's so what's the big deal here? The only big deal is that PAF jets have much smaller RCS then IAF Jets hence smaller chance of being picked up at range over 300km's.

There you go showing true colors.
No the phalcon looks beyond... tracks more targets both near/on ground or in the air.
Phalcons have the luxury to stay 100 miles inside the Indian border and know what is happening upto the Afghanistan border in Pakistan... same cannot be said the Ere-eye.

The Phalcon radar can pick up 1-2m^2 targets at 400km distance.
Other than MKI what other jets are you talking about ?... a Mig21bison has an RCS figure below 1m^2 in clean configuration.

 

[naseem shah]

We have 45 F-16 A/B’s being upgraded to blk-50 and 18 blk-52 and negociating for 14 more blk 52
Now USAF uses blk 52 and was able to defeat ur MKI at red flag 2008

 

[Mav3rick]

The detection range presented on the poster is the training mode figures... with the radar operating 1KW maximum.... or just the figures required for illumination of wave tube.. which had the ratings for about 4KW maximum... those have been replaced by wave tubes in the ratings between 7 to 10KW... over the time.

These figures describe the performance at peak power.

The AESA selected for Su30MKI wold have ratings in between 10-15 watt/Channel... equating for upto about 16 to 24KW peak power.

I have an idea, why don't you raise the power to 100KW and eliminate the need of an AWACS altogether? Or make MKI an AWACS air superiority fighter that can detect targets (on paper) up to 800 km's away?? In all reality I can digest that actual ranges would be classified but would that not hold true for PAF fighters too???

And while IAF continues to expand the MKI's detection "range", I am sure PAF would be more interested in acquisition of Jets that "cannot" be detected or locked by conventional radars!

 

[danger007]

We have 45 F-16 A/B’s being upgraded to blk-50 and 18 blk-52 and negociating for 14 more blk 52
Now USAF uses blk 52 and was able to defeat ur MKI at red flag 2008

That is new to me thanks for your information lieutenant ..

 

[Mav3rick]

There you go showing true colors.
No the phalcon looks beyond... tracks more targets both near/on ground or in the air.
Phalcons have the luxury to stay 100 miles inside the Indian border and know what is happening upto the Afghanistan border in Pakistan... same cannot be said the Ere-eye.

The Phalcon radar can pick up 1-2m^2 targets at 400km distance.
Other than MKI what other jets are you talking about ?... a Mig21bison has an RCS figure below 1m^2 in clean configuration.

I am not really sure what you mean by showing my true colors.

Anyway, Please prove that the Phalcon can pick up and track targets at 400km's with RCS of 1m^2 and that the Bison has an RCS < that in clean configuration (although I wonder what use the Bison would be in that case unless you want a Kamikazi style attack)!

At the same time, I also wonder how you know for a fact that the Phalcon looks and tracks farther then the Eri-Eye, I mean Phalcon maybe in a class of its own but since actual characteristics of atleast the Eri-Eye (PAF configured) are classified. And at the same time you are also discounting the characteristics of Chinese K series AWACS which are classified. To me, the boasts look too tall.

 

[DARKY]

I have an idea, why don't you raise the power to 100KW and eliminate the need of an AWACS altogether? Or make MKI an AWACS air superiority fighter that can detect targets (on paper) up to 800 km's away?? In all reality I can digest that actual ranges would be classified but would that not hold true for PAF fighters too???

And while IAF continues to expand the MKI's detection "range", I am sure PAF would be more interested in acquisition of Jets that "cannot" be detected or locked by conventional radars!

Not possible due to limitations in semiconductor industry... However you might see ratings of upto 25-50watt/channel on the radars used on later blocks of rafale aircraft... thanks to GaN transistors.

Sure they would... but IAF already knows that they have evaluated F-16block52 and even the block70... what they don't know is about JF-17 radar which has inferior performance with only 550Watt max. power I guess.

What Jet are you talking about IAF is already planning to induct the 5th Gen. PAK FA/FGFA in that regard.. and HAL are development partners in the project.

 

[DARKY]

I am not really sure what you mean by showing my true colors.

Anyway, Please prove that the Phalcon can pick up and track targets at 400km's with RCS of 1m^2 and that the Bison has an RCS < that in clean configuration (although I wonder what use the Bison would be in that case unless you want a Kamikazi style attack)!

At the same time, I also wonder how you know for a fact that the Phalcon looks and tracks farther then the Eri-Eye, I mean Phalcon maybe in a class of its own but since actual characteristics of atleast the Eri-Eye (PAF configured) are classified. And at the same time you are also discounting the characteristics of Chinese K series AWACS which are classified. To me, the boasts look too tall.

Denialism.

You are very quick to ask for proofs while haven't proved any of your previous claims most of which were proven wrong.
The figures I wrote is what I used to read in different books and journals... The official figures for Phalcon is 250miles for 2m^2 RCS targets... in normal mode.

Bison uses Radar absorbent paints to reduce its RCS from 3m^2 to 1m^2 or below... It was the Mig21 which downed the Atlantique aircraft of PN.. I am sure the Kamikazi style was other way round in that case.

Phalcons looks farther and tracks more targets... as It has more powerful generators to provide more power for a much bigger and powerful radar to radiate farther... and more TRMMs to track more targets... It can performs much faster processing thanks to more powerful computers and Supercomputers used with better programming codes.

I am talking on basis of class... If you classify a scooter it does not compare with a sports car.

The only AWACS close to Phalcon is the Chinese KJ-2000 which is based on earlier models of Phalcon radar watered down.

 

[Mav3rick]

Not possible due to limitations in semiconductor industry... However you might see ratings of upto 25-50watt/channel on the radars used on later blocks of rafale aircraft... thanks to GaN transistors.

Sure they would... but IAF already knows that they have evaluated F-16block52 and even the block70... what they don't know is about JF-17 radar which has inferior performance with only 550Watt max. power I guess.

What Jet are you talking about IAF is already planning to induct the 5th Gen. PAK FA/FGFA in that regard.. and HAL are development partners in the project.

O yaar tu sota nahi hai kia?? 550W Max power is what you know, you have no idea what JFT has and is being upgraded with.

By the way, don't let me think that you don't know what PAF is involved in for next gen Fighters.

 

[MilSpec]

O yaar tu sota nahi hai kia?? 550W Max power is what you know, you have no idea what JFT has and is being upgraded with.

By the way, don't let me think that you don't know what PAF is involved in for next gen Fighters.

whats the point of comparison then, your FC1 upgrades are super secret so are the details of your zdk awacs, saab erirye, and bvr missiles which were aparently highly upgraded by pakistan. In all there are no details available, except that "It surely trumps MKI and whatever IAF fields", right?

 

[GURU DUTT]

O yaar tu sota nahi hai kia?? 550W Max power is what you know, you have no idea what JFT has and is being upgraded with.

By the way, don't let me think that you don't know what PAF is involved in for next gen Fighters.

sirji with deu respect your now trying to deviate here well do you have any idea about what MKI already has and its real streanth not to mention what its going to get in couple of years from now

 

[Mav3rick]

Denialism.

You are very quick to ask for proofs while haven't proved any of your previous claims most of which were proven wrong.
The figures I wrote is what I used to read in different books and journals... The official figures for Phalcon is 250miles for 2m^2 RCS targets... in normal mode.

On the contrary, I am the only one who has accepted whenever proof has been provided or when logical posts are posted.

None of my claims have proved anything but fact, not a single one as unlike you I accept reality. By the way didn't you say something about 1m^2? at 400km's (and not 2m^2?). I still await proof of that.

Bison uses Radar absorbent paints to reduce its RCS from 3m^2 to 1m^2 or below... It was the Mig21 which downed the Atlantique aircraft of PN.. I am sure the Kamikazi style was other way round in that case.

It was a Mig-21 that downed the atlantique that's why it has 1m^2 RCS? And the Bison was able to achieve such unbelievable feats of reducing it's RCS 2 times just be RAM coatings??? I'd like proof of that too please. As well as it's RCS when loaded!

Phalcons looks farther and tracks more targets... as It has more powerful generators to provide more power for a much bigger and powerful radar to radiate farther... and more TRMMs to track more targets... It can performs much faster processing thanks to more powerful computers and Supercomputers used with better programming codes.

Now see, you are making claims but are unable to prove them. You keep saying that Phalcons can look farther & track more targets but you do not provide any evidence to back your claims. Most likely the Phalcon does see further and is able to track more targets and faster too. But you make it as if the Phalcon is 1 end of technological spectrum and the Eri-eye the other (high and low). I'd like you to prove that with evidence and not just hollow words.

I am talking on basis of class... If you classify a scooter it does not compare with a sports car.

What makes Phalcon a scooter?

The only AWACS close to Phalcon is the Chinese KJ-2000 which is based on earlier models of Phalcon radar watered down.

And what details do you have of the KJ-2000 or even 200? As far as I know, the Chinese never got anything that resembles the Phalcon except the hollow core then why is the KJ2K comparable to Phalcon's "watered down earlier model"??

 

[danger007]

O yaar tu sota nahi hai kia?? 550W Max power is what you know, you have no idea what JFT has and is being upgraded with.

By the way, don't let me think that you don't know what PAF is involved in for next gen Fighters.

Even you don't know about that.. am i right... you are just hoping ..

 

[datalibdaz]

You people have seriously no idea what you are talking about..Useless comparison, copied fake wrong stats and stupid meaningless
arguments,no knowledge about the topic but still this thread will continue beyond 100 pages...

 

[DARKY]

O yaar tu sota nahi hai kia?? 550W Max power is what you know, you have no idea what JFT has and is being upgraded with.

By the way, don't let me think that you don't know what PAF is involved in for next gen Fighters.

Go and read the JF17 information pool... and you'll find the maximum power ratings for KLJ-7 stands at 550W.

Which project are you talking about ?

 

[DARKY]

On the contrary, I am the only one who has accepted whenever proof has been provided or when logical posts are posted.

None of my claims have proved anything but fact, not a single one as unlike you I accept reality. By the way didn't you say something about 1m^2? at 400km's (and not 2m^2?). I still await proof of that.





It was a Mig-21 that downed the atlantique that's why it has 1m^2 RCS? And the Bison was able to achieve such unbelievable feats of reducing it's RCS 2 times just be RAM coatings??? I'd like proof of that too please. As well as it's RCS when loaded!





Now see, you are making claims but are unable to prove them. You keep saying that Phalcons can look farther & track more targets but you do not provide any evidence to back your claims. Most likely the Phalcon does see further and is able to track more targets and faster too. But you make it as if the Phalcon is 1 end of technological spectrum and the Eri-eye the other (high and low). I'd like you to prove that with evidence and not just hollow words.





What makes Phalcon a scooter?





And what details do you have of the KJ-2000 or even 200? As far as I know, the Chinese never got anything that resembles the Phalcon except the hollow core then why is the KJ2K comparable to Phalcon's "watered down earlier model"??

Your facts.. said that JF17 fires Aim120,
PAF ordered Aim120C5.
Singapore AF doesn't allow IAF pilots study their aircrafts.
And many more... which I forgot...

I said that I read about those figures in some books/journals years ago.
Even simple browsing through internet or a little understanding about radars would explain that to you.
If you can't browse or don't understand then its not my problem.

Thats was for the Kamikazi comment you made about Mig21 which by far is the most produced aircraft after the 2nd WW.
Go and read about the difference RAM had on F16 RCS clean[reduction from 5m^2 to 1.2m^2].. Bison had similar upgrade in this regard.. It RCS stands well below normal Mig21 and is around 1m^2 or less.

A normal Air-Air configuration would add about 2-3m^2.

No body can provide you with evidence... there are somethings which are understood however It was my mistake that I posted something your Brain cannot understand.

Your question is similar to asking proof as to why a truck carriers more load and a car cannot.
I don't have time for such elaborate explanation which would again go wasted thanks to your IQ and understanding abilities.

http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/FILES/5/37545.pdf

There you go... you can't even understand little examples...
Your Brain is worse than that of the dumbest person I've come across.

Chinese got a lot of help from Israel which included antenna design and some classified information which only the Israeli and Chinese engineers know... they were very close to sign the deal when the US govt. blocked it.

The information offered by Israel was for financial benefits and It was against their interests to provide their top information to Chinese which could help anti-Israeli groups in long run.

Besides there were newer version of the AWACS radar evolved with the EL/W-2090 being the latest... used in the Phalcon AWACS project.

EL/W-2090 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia