How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[mylovepakistan]

The Shaheen-2 would be blown up in atmosphere if it takes that much time to reach East India. But let me assure you that after this act , the barrage of Prithvi and Agni would do in-comparable damage within 11 minutes.

its not that plane and simple..
do you think PA considering you have an ABM system,will launch (which is not gonna happen) only a single nuke which you think to blow up in atmosphere?
definately not my boy...
how will your ABM system prevent shaheen IIs from striking against indian land that are coming in a large number?

 

[kaykay]

Since we would be discussing only 'What we are told" then I think the mentioned radar coverage of SU-30 at a flex on Aero India leads to the following calculations.

BVR, Head-to-Head:

The Frontal RCS of F-16C: 1.2m2

The Frontal RCS of Su-27/30: 10m2 (Thank the God for not making it 20m2)


Maximum effective detective Range:

AN/APG-68 V5 (F-16 MLUs): 70~80 km for RCS = 5m2 target

AN/APG-68 V9 (F-16 Block 52s) : 90~105 km for RCS = 5m2 target

AN/APG-80: 130km for RCS = 5m2 target



N-001 (Su-27S): 80~100 km for RCS = 3m2 target

N-001 VEP (Su-30MKK2): 90~110 km for RCS = 3m2 target

N-001 V (Su-27SM): 135~150 km for RCS = 3m2 target

(AIR INTERNATIONAL, 2004, Jan)

NO11M Bars (SU-30MKI): "140~160 km for an F-16 target"
(The Su-30MKI Info Page - Vayu Sena)


Theoretically,

# The maximum effective detective range for AN/APG-68 V5 to detect Su-27/30 is about 85~95 km.

# The maximum effective detective range for AN/APG-68 V9 to detect Su-27/30 is about 110~125 km.

# The maximum effective detective range for AN/APG-80 to detect Su-27/30 is about 155 km.



@ The maximum effective detective range for N-001 (Su-27S) to detect F-16C is about 64~80 km.

@ The maximum effective detective range for N-001 VEP (Su-30MKK2) to detect F-16C is about 70~88 km.

@ The maximum effective detective range for N-001 V (Su-27 SM) to detect F-16C is about 105~120 km.

@ The maximum effective detective range for NO11M Bars (SU-30MKI) to detect F-16C is about 140~160 km.

BTW its pretty even. No?

And iam still assuming the RCS of MKI to be 10 since the F-15s RCS is 11 and these two birds are pretty similar in design and size.

well if you consider F16 block52s then more or less they will detect each other at same time(mki will detect f16 slightly earlier though)...but when it comes to JF17 then the latter fades far away in that.

 

[Skull and Bones]

This global security site cites MKI RCS at around 4 sq m.

Radar Cross Section (RCS)

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

its not that plane and simple..
do you think PA considering you have an ABM system,will launch (which is not gonna happen) only a single nuke which you think to blow up in atmosphere?
definately not my boy...
how will your ABM system prevent shaheen IIs from striking against indian land that are coming in a large number?

Notwithstanding the number of shaheens launched by pakistan, we will have a higher number of ABM missiles. Simple.

 

[Ammyy]

its not that plane and simple..
do you think PA considering you have an ABM system,will launch (which is not gonna happen) only a single nuke which you think to blow up in atmosphere?
definately not my boy...
how will your ABM system prevent shaheen IIs from striking against indian land that are coming in a large number?

What makes you think that if Pakistan preparing to fire large number of nuke tipped missiles our intelligence will not find that??

India can face worse Pakistani attack because of large size but your country can't.

 

[abdulbarijan]

What makes you think that if Pakistan preparing to fire large number of nuke tipped missiles our intelligence will not find that??

India can face worse Pakistani attack because of large size but your country can't.

I cant seem to understand one thing maybe you as a senior member can shed light on it...

When there is talk about how much area IAF has to defend while engaging in conflict from one side (supposedly Pakistan), It also has to defend the Chinese and Bangladeshi border, the former deploying the likes of 4+ generation fighters and about to produce 5th generation jets indigenously with a huge numerical advantage over IAF,you cant just leave things open for a potential adversary who has already got a history of war with you ..... If any of the members bring in this factor suddenly most of our esteemed Indian friends try and discount that factor through various different reasoning .... but when it comes to missiles etc, the depth of India starts mattering very much .... Why so?

 

[Skull and Bones]

its not that plane and simple..
do you think PA considering you have an ABM system,will launch (which is not gonna happen) only a single nuke which you think to blow up in atmosphere?
definately not my boy...
how will your ABM system prevent shaheen IIs from striking against indian land that are coming in a large number?

I don't know from where Pakistan gets so many missiles and rockets? It defies all the logical boundaries of science for such a small nation.

When we talk about Iron Dome, they'll launch thousands of artillery projectiles to defy it, and hundreds of ballistic missiles costing millions each to defy our ABM.

Maybe they should do a reality check with their military officials, the facts might baffle them.

 

[airomerix]

well if you consider F16 block52s then more or less they will detect each other at same time(mki will detect f16 slightly earlier though)...but when it comes to JF17 then the latter fades far away in that.

Even if the Block 52s and MKI detect each other at almost equal ranges then the weapons system of Block 52 leaves Su-30 in a dilemma. R-27 and R-77 are no match to the AMRAAM and iam sure i dont surprise you.

 

[PoKeMon]

I cant seem to understand one thing maybe you as a senior member can shed light on it...

When there is talk about how much area IAF has to defend while engaging in conflict from one side (supposedly Pakistan), It also has to defend the Chinese and Bangladeshi border, the former deploying the likes of 4+ generation fighters and about to produce 5th generation jets indigenously with a huge numerical advantage over IAF,you cant just leave things open for a potential adversary who has already got a history of war with you ..... If any of the members bring in this factor suddenly most of our esteemed Indian friends try and discount that factor through various different reasoning .... but when it comes to missiles etc, the depth of India starts mattering very much .... Why so?

I dont know why you guys take chinese support for granted. Have they support you directly ever in the past??

Also India need to maintain defensive only at eastern sector. The terrain doesn't allowed any of the country to mobilise quickly at sino-indian border and also enables defensive forces to hold their grounds even when outnumbered by a factor of 3.

Even if the Block 52s and MKI detect each other at almost equal ranges then the weapons system of Block 52 leaves Su-30 in a dilemma. R-27 and R-77 are no match to the AMRAAM and iam sure i dont surprise you.

Actually you are missing the Jammers and EW suite here completely. Its not the one who sees first win scenario. MKI EW suites is far better than F-16 and JF17.

Also MKI will have advantage of few seconds over F-16 and secondly it can carry more missiles to use. 2 BVR missiles coming at F-16 are always better than AMRAAM waiting to get fired.

 

[airomerix]

I dont know why you guys take chinese support for granted. Have they support you directly ever in the past??

Also India need to maintain defensive only at eastern sector. The terrain doesn't allowed any of the country to mobilise quickly at sino-indian border and also enables defensive forces to hold their grounds even when outnumbered by a factor of 3.



Actually you are missing the Jammers and EW suite here completely. Its not the one who sees first win scenario. MKI EW suites is far better than F-16 and JF17.

Also MKI will have advantage of few seconds over F-16 and secondly it can carry more missiles to use. 2 BVR missiles coming at F-16 are always better than AMRAAM waiting to get fired.

I do remember some Indian Generals worrying over the mobilization of Chinese troops in your North Eastern sector. Just saying

 

[PoKeMon]

I do remember some Indian Generals worrying over the mobilization of Chinese troops in your North Eastern sector. Just saying

When you are a general you need to look at the worse possible scenario. But does our general's skepticism ensure you the chinese direct millitary support?

 

[airomerix]

When you are a general you need to look at the worse possible scenario. But does our general's skepticism ensure you the chinese direct millitary support?

Your General's slepticism did force him to divert 2 Armoured and 3 Infantry divisions away from your western border. Thanks to China?

 

[abdulbarijan]

I dont know why you guys take chinese support for granted. Have they support you directly ever in the past??

Also India need to maintain defensive only at eastern sector. The terrain doesn't allowed any of the country to mobilise quickly at sino-indian border and also enables defensive forces to hold their grounds even when outnumbered by a factor of 3.

First off the question was not regarding Pakistan at all.... It was regarding other borders (bangladesh and China) ... specifically taking air defense in to account, and you have pretty much answered it yourself, even if you are in a defensive mode, you will require some defense and that in turn means the division of forces (be it land or air) for other borders ...
Which in turn means that IAF cannot afford to play at full strength ...

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

Even if the Block 52s and MKI detect each other at almost equal ranges then the weapons system of Block 52 leaves Su-30 in a dilemma. R-27 and R-77 are no match to the AMRAAM and iam sure i dont surprise you.

One word again. Jammers

 

[kaykay]

Your General's slepticism did force him to divert 2 Armoured and 3 Infantry divisions away from your western border. Thanks to China?

you are wrong here!! We didn't divert our divisions away from western borders...but rather these divisions are newly formed specially for north eastern borders!!! About 1 lakh soldiers to be raised in 3 mountain divisions for chinese borders along with 2 armoured divisions.