How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[Skull and Bones]

We honestly do not wish to discuss the ABM evading capabilities of our newer missiles that are stealthy enough to hide from radars for most of their path and can continuously change their path to avoid ABM systems and path correction even in scramjet terminal speeds. We also do not wish to discuss the tactics such as use of MIRV warheads and Dummy warheads in a single Missile that can overwhelm even the most smartest and sophisticated ABM systems.

May be in the terminal endo-atmospheric phase, but no ballistic missile can maneuver in the exo-atmospheric phase.

 

[Mav3rick]

The only reason the IAF have not ordered more MIRAGE fighters is because they are about to sign for 126 rafales

The french fighter came top on a 2 years competition including 6 months flight trials beating off ALL THE WORLDS TOP 4th generation fighters .

INCIDENTALLY THE F16/60 came BOTTOM IN INDIAN MMRCA competition.

And TO PROVE THE INDIANS arent deciding on politics but purely capability since the F16/60 AND F18/SH lost MMRCA india has ordered $20 bilion of USA military hardware

CV17 GLOBEMASTERS C130 TRANSPORTS P8S POSEDION MARITIME APACHE GUN SHPS & ENGINES FOR TEJAS ...

Surprise surprise.....there are still more orders for F-16's and F-15's then any Rafael! India is the only country in the world which is set to order the Jet, no other country in the world has seen the Jet fit enough or better enough to order it instead of the outdated F's.

 

[majesticpankaj]

Surprise surprise.....there are still more orders for F-16's and F-15's then any Rafael! India is the only country in the world which is set to order the Jet, no other country in the world has seen the Jet fit enough or better enough to order it instead of the outdated F's.

It is because it is costly... u know the outcome of swiss's deal ?

we have the choice after proper evalualtion unlike pakistan..

even china is continuing to have russian origin jets rather than going for jointly developed "thunder"

enough said..

 

[Skull and Bones]

Surprise surprise.....there are still more orders for F-16's and F-15's then any Rafael! India is the only country in the world which is set to order the Jet, no other country in the world has seen the Jet fit enough or better enough to order it instead of the outdated F's.

Would you like to see the Swiss evaluation report?

 

[Mav3rick]

It is because it is costly... u know the outcome of swiss's deal ?

we have the choice after proper evalualtion unlike pakistan..

even china is continuing to have russian origin jets rather than going for jointly developed "thunder"

enough said..

You mean costly enough that India can buy it but not the Arabs despite pleading by the French?? Thunder was jointly developed for Pakistan and for export to other countries after orders of PAF are fulfilled.

Would you like to see the Swiss evaluation report?

Yes, please.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

J10 B is sufficient to fulfil the requirements for Pakistani Airforce for forseable future best part is that its fully integrated with Chinese AWACs and these platforms will go under continued enhancement

F16 + j10B + JF17 Thunders more then enough

J10 B is more agile bird then Sukhoi
F16 is fast and agile nuclear enabled
JF17 thunders are carrying BVR and Nuclear enabled

We have absolutely no need to induct more planes

As Pakistani I would prefer some improvement of Cities and Infrastructure and Police System

 

[Bratva]

It is because it is costly... u know the outcome of swiss's deal ?

we have the choice after proper evalualtion unlike pakistan..

even china is continuing to have russian origin jets rather than going for jointly developed "thunder"

enough said..

It's a stupid logic. When they have Flanker And J-10 Series, why they need a light class fighter? It's like when India can build LCA, why they are still purchasing Rafael and SU-30?

 

[Skull and Bones]

Yes, please.

 

[Skull and Bones]

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

China promised 50 Jets on an emergency basis, is there any doubt on that? Of delivery, I am not sure and quite certainly neither is anyone else. And 2 squadrons were raised in 2011.....what were the factories doing in 2012? I can only logically conclude that we should have over 5 squadrons. However, there is no word beyond the 2 squadrons.





Not sure which BVR missile they use, most likely AIM-120C & SD-10 have been integrated as those are the BVR Missiles that we hold in inventory.





Increase in Radar range is applicable on even the first JFT and so is the introduction of IRST without hard modifications (soft mods). They do not make a new Block, the newer blocks are supposed to carry western radars and avionics, use composites and RAM coatings, be powered by a more powerful engine (perhaps even TVC engine) etc., which upgrade to be part of which block is yet to be ascertained.

My claim was not of IAF kill probability but the kill probability of Russian BVR's in use of IAF, '0' Russian BVR's have engaged a target successfully in combat after over a dozen engagements.





If you believe that an MKI can take on an F-15 such as an F-15SE....well, I won't even waste my time there.



But simultaneously, a loaded MKI will be an even bigger RCS signal which could be traced even farther away. And PAF will enjoy the jammers/ecm's and ew suites that will be available within Pakistani airspace such as AWACS and EW/ECM/ECCM assets on the ground plus SAM sites.

MOD EDIT

So you are using AIM120C with Mirages? Care to tell me when did you order them? No such order was placed for AIM120 missiles.

Please provide a source of your claim that '0' Russian BVR's have engaged a target successfully in combat after over a dozen engagements.

Yes, I am saying that Su30 MKI can take on F15, and beat it, whether you accept it or not doesn't affect me in any way.

 

[majesticpankaj]

You mean costly enough that India can buy it but not the Arabs despite pleading by the French?? Thunder was jointly developed for Pakistan and for export to other countries after orders of PAF are fulfilled.



Yes, please.

UAE is not buying rafale because of price not because of it's performance.

It's a stupid logic. When they have Flanker And J-10 Series, why they need a light class fighter? It's like when India can build LCA, why they are still purchasing Rafael and SU-30?

china still continuing with mig -21 and other planes... why they don't go for a better and cheap substitute.. ??

 

[INDIAISM]

You mean costly enough that India can buy it but not the Arabs despite pleading by the French?? Thunder was jointly developed for Pakistan and for export to other countries after orders of PAF are fulfilled.



Yes, please.

Do you think Arabs can deny Uncle Sam's order...
All of us know arm twisting ways of Uncle Sam to get orders for their defence equipments....

 

[Mav3rick]

MOD EDIT

So you are using AIM120C with Mirages? Care to tell me when did you order them? No such order was placed for AIM120 missiles.

Please provide a source of your claim that '0' Russian BVR's have engaged a target successfully in combat after over a dozen engagements.

Yes, I am saying that Su30 MKI can take on F15, and beat it, whether you accept it or not doesn't affect me in any way.

This is what I wrote "Not sure which BVR missile they use, most likely AIM-120C & SD-10 have been integrated as those are the BVR Missiles that we hold in inventory". It shouldn't have been this hard to understand!

Google is your friend for Russian BVR engagements.

You believe an MKI can take on an F-15 and beat it too, I do not. We may leave it at that.

 

[Mav3rick]

UAE is not buying rafale because of price not because of it's performance.

After flying the F's for so long, UAE considered the performance of Rafale to be sub par and wanted it to be heavily upgraded before it could meet the standards set by the F's. France was not willing to invest so heavily in the jet any more as it had no other clients and wanted UAE to bear the expenses.......UAE realized that it was not a sound purchase and opted for better alternative. That's the whole story or in short the Jet could not perform up to expectations.

china still continuing with mig -21 and other planes... why they don't go for a better and cheap substitute.. ??

PLAAF had 1k+ of the earlier migs and it takes a lot of time to replace them with Chinese manufactures/developed Jets.

 

[Bratva]

UAE is not buying rafale because of price not because of it's performance.




china still continuing with mig -21 and other planes... why they don't go for a better and cheap substitute.. ??

Please point out the 2010-2012 facts which shows china is still producing Mig-21 (F-7 series) derivatives for it's AF.