How much of Pakistan do the Taliban actually control

[Xeric]

This isn't true. We succeeded in kicking your minions across your border in 2001. I'm sorry that they ran faster than we could attack but they clearly knew where their safety was assured.

Ok, first sign of failure.

If that was the case, wtf was the plan about if you failed to foresee where those fast running dude would run, which kind of military planning was that.

A kiddo in the military knows it, you just don't bust someone from one side and keep the other open so that they can run faster before the bomb landed over their heads, i hope it was not pre-planned??

Kick them from the right, let them run towards the left and then follow them, again hit them while giving them space to breath, do this until the complete world is traversed by those AHs and the the mighty Stars and Stripes are flowing in the air across the globe!

A dumb strategy i must say.

Don't let me teach you tactics again!

And so it was. Where was your army? Do you not defend ALL of your borders at a time of national crisis-especially your western borders as it becomes certain that America is going to war?

No we dont defend our western borders all the time, that's what we call our stragetic depth, we always wanted to keep our western border friendly. So we dont man it as we do the eastern one.

And you knew it SIR!!

Don't make me copy that report that said that attacking al qeada in Afghanistan would instabilize Pakistan (for the obvious reasons already mentioned above) and nobody paid the heed to it.

Was your arm chair general smoking pot when he planned to take over afghanistan, didnt they knew where the hell they would flee and what would be the consequences???

We admit that our policy makers have been dumb and shortsighted, but you claim to be the sole superpower with big brains and strategies spreading over decades.
Why did you fail to see this, why didnt you gave that so called military aid at the time what you busted al qeada with Tomahawks??

Yes you are right about that the terrorist knew where to go and you also knew it!

So we know that we've kept an Afghan government not of your choosing in power for seven years. Since we'll be there another 15-20, that will likely continue. Kiss your strategic space away.

So atlast you confessed, thanks, that was the aim!

Perhaps you're satisfied with your army's performance. I don't know. I wouldn't know why though. Dying proudly for your country really isn't the objective unless it advances the greater good. Have your 1600 military martyrs done so for your country? I don't think your leadership have served their memory well at all, personally, but that's just me.

enigma 947, I could give a ratz azz if your army is trained for conventional war. I'd strongly encourage your peers and you to engage in some new operational horizons real damned quick. We're not calling a "time-out" while you get your tactical act together. You just might have to do a bit of OJT.


Makes a guy wonder how bad you wish to "win"?

Here's my suggestion-sit tight and DO NOT DEPLOY WEST FROM PUNJAB WITH YOUR ARMY.

No need. They'll be introducing themselves to Punjab anyday now.

Thanks.

Yes i am quite satisfied with my Army, they do more and rant less.

They have done that with their bare hands for what you would have required may be anothe billion $??

i know what your solier worths without his Kevlar and the satliites behind his arse,

i remember a US officer complaining of using helis, drones, satellites, carpet bombing to execute an Assault Across Water Obstacle in indo-Pak scenario, which we demonstrated to him, conducting the operation with bare infantry and artillery support!

Come on, it;s easy to launch something from a tent and to go out and fight there.

Screwing the place to burn like hell and then using humvees to reach there is something Kings do, and oh yes you are the Kings, sorry your highness
but we dont have the technological edge but we do have that thing which you lack!

I know if they were Indians you'd be charging with pitchforks, brooms, mudclods, bricks, anything you could lay your hands on without regard to "collaterral damage".

Not now.

Now i seriously doubt you mental ability to comprehend military doctrine and planning, well if you consider fighting across the border and withing the border the same then seriously you have waste the 12 years that you have spent in your military!

Oh yes for you probably it is the same, killing innocents whether they are in Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iraq, lets see what would you have done had these suckers been present in california!!

Please try to read your Field Manuals again, especially the one that tells you about COIN ops, Anti Terrorist operation and LIC.


No doubt you consider a conventional war and an un-conventional conflict within your own population the same thing, therefore i suppose you have never thought for a second before killing innocents, should i quote the success rate? You kill 100 which ortunately includs one bad guy, they remaing people with just plain bad luck. No boubt you have created more enemies then they were there before you started.

thanks to your understanding of COIN ops and operating withing civilians ops!!

 

[rubyjackass]

The map is generally fine and disputing such is quibbling. N. and S. Waziristan now very justifiably have a new name-the Islamic Emirate of Waziristan, and it is called such by these lads.

I suppose Khyber is not "controlled". It's disputed and I'm sure of that because we fight our convoys through. Some even make it.

Kurram isn't a problem at all, I believe. I'm sure that Abu Zolfiqir (a shia muslim from there) promises that they'd all be dead as they sure as hell aren't like the sikhs being run out of Orakzai.

Oh yeah, sorry. The government promises that they're going to take care of that. Sure they are...

Anybody wish to travel to Tank? How about Paradise? You know, SWAT? I think Chitral is prettier. Anybody up for a trip?

The west is gone and we didn't even mention Baluchistan.

Its not exactly a matter of control as in administration. If Taliban are able to do what they want then its a matter enough for concern.
I see that all the red marked areas except Lakki Marwat and Shangla have experienced Taliban activity a lot. Whether it is Afghan Taliban or Pakistani Taliban.
They have just begun in Buner. I thought Taliban were able to dictate what content should shops in Peshawar should have?


Plz comment

 

[Hasnain2009]

@ Nadia...J!!
YOu look so smart!!

 

[S-2]

"A dumb strategy i must say."

Perhaps you're unaware that our plan only envisioned a foothold over the fall and winter before a spring campaign in 2002 to retake the nation? Does anybody plan for a collapse of an army between 50,000-75,000 to about 10,000 in the space of two months?

Finally, as the national army of your country, do you not bear the final and ultimate responsibility to defend your borders or do you rely upon the good will of those attacking your minions to do so on your behalf?

If so, how, exactly do you actually earn your keep?

I do know this though. Your army displayed it's abilities to rapidly redeploy when it conducted that superb movement exercise between SWAT and Punjab last December. Excellent.

I know that in the fall of 2001 if you'd really, really wanted to be up on your western borders, you had all the time in the world between 9-11 and mid-November. Two months. Molasses can move that fast.

"Don't let me teach you tactics again!"

Try to denote the difference, young artillery officer, between tactics and strategy before beginning your lessons.

They constitute two different planning realms in the military art.

"No we dont defend our western borders all the time, that's what we call our stragetic depth, we always wanted to keep our western border friendly. So we dont man it as we do the eastern one."

I know that however I consider 9-11 and it's immediate implications to be extrordinary circumstance requiring an extrodinary response. Clearly with war on the western horizon and the legacy of the mujahideen among your taliban friends, you knew that they'd be retreating in your direction.

Then, with that two months preparation, was the time to crush the defeated taliban army of Afghanistan and their government.

Instead you welcomed our enemy into your lands and established them among the afghan refugee camps and in Quetta for Mullah Omar and his senior cronies.

You welcomed our enemies for all the aforementioned reasons of yours. And still do, young artillery officer.

My question was rhetorical to display the selective perspectives Pakistanis often offer on sovereignty.

"Don't make me copy that report that said that attacking al qeada in Afghanistan would instabilize Pakistan (for the obvious reasons already mentioned above) and nobody paid the heed to it."

Well after 3,000 dead citizens and residents in a space of one hour and a clear understanding as from where, you'd make you best plans, I'd like to believe because we are coming...

There wasn't a doubt in a single solitary American mind.

You should note that difference the next time some lonely F.C. outfit is left to fight and die on their own because nobody comes to their aid.

Tell you what, you give those fcuks a hug. We're killing them as there's not a damned thing to talk with A.Q. about and we aren't going to let them just smack us at will. Took awhile- WTC 94, Nairobi, Dar-es-salaam, USS Cole- but 9-11 was an indisputable wake-up call that none of my fellow citzens has yet forgotten.

"So atlast you confessed, thanks, that was the aim!"

Not necessarily. Our aim was to remove your dimwits for our dimwits and get as much of A.Q. as possible in the process. See...you'd proven immensely poor mentors and examples to your afghan cousins. In truth, you never gave an ounce of concern to any element of afghan society save the pashtu.

That just doesn't hack it so no more personal playground and strategic depth for you. Imagine this. Fifteen years from now there's a bad azzed afghan army in your west with a mutural defense pact with India.

Choke on that bone...

"They have done that with their bare hands for what you would have required may be anothe billion $??"

Cool. Let's drop that billion$ off your military aid bill and invest in some fingernail files.

"No doubt you consider a conventional war and an un-conventional conflict within your own population the same thing, therefore i suppose you have never thought for a second before killing innocents, should i quote the success rate?"

Now you're out of line. I'll spell it out for you. Those American soldiers are superbly conditioned, trained, and armed to find, fix, fight, and finish their enemies in an unconventional battlefield.

All of our company grade and field grade officers have multiple combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, most of our lieutenants, all of our senior NCOs and most of our troops.

They've fought from the Hindu Kush through Fallujah to the greenzones of the Tigris and Euphrates and up into Tal Afar. They've fought from Konar to Khost and know those hills better than your own regular forces at this point. We see F.C. and that's ALL we see.

No. We aren't "combat hardened" like Saddam's boys. I'm not bragging if I tell you that should you run into an American, Canadian, or British battalion in Afghanistan you are amidst the finest regular soldiers you'll ever likely meet.

They've traveled a long way to do this mission and virtually every soldier I know is EAGER for this mission like they weren't for Iraq. We are very emotionally invested here and we will stabilize Afghanistan to our designs. Those likely don't include you. More so with each passing day.

Thanks.

 

[Elmo]

@ Nadia...J!!
YOu look so smart!!

You are shameless Hasnain!!!

 

[pakomar]

To S-2
Afghanistan will be stable if western forces leave Afghanistan.
Attacking Afghanistan Iraq was not our idea it was US idea so deal with it do n t drag Pakistan into it. US screw both wars. how can u fight a another war before winning the pervious .now point fingers on Pakistani for losing the war in Afghanistan or may be they have other plains for Pakistan. Pakistan is doing its best and put more troop than US. Pakistan role was to provide root for supplying US troops and that it that all we suppose to do not to fight your war.
Well remember the time when US aid Afghanistan against Russia openly. Now its other way around Russian Indian and other intelligent agencies are messing with Pakistan too for helping Afghanistan in Russian Afghanistan war .Pakistan has already suffered the most then US and it’s not over. Thrice the time Pakistani lost life both military and civilians.
people die in 9/11 is far less than how many died in Pakistan suicide attacks and same in the case military wise US loses is less than Pakistani’s.

I strongly argue you to stop writing non sense about Pakistani, Pakistan army and Pakistan paramilitary.

 

[rubyjackass]

people die in 9/11 is far less than how many died in Pakistan suicide attacks and same in the case military wise US loses is less than Pakistani’s.

I strongly argue you to stop writing non sense about Pakistani, Pakistan army and Pakistan paramilitary.

Whats your point?
US cares about its citizens more than Pakistan cares for its own?
US govt and armed forces took care or acted in a way that the threat to their nation can be removed.
Should we expect similar actions from Pakistan's army?

 

[XYON]

"A dumb strategy i must say."

Perhaps you're unaware that our plan only envisioned a foothold over the fall and winter before a spring campaign in 2002 to retake the nation? Does anybody plan for a collapse of an army between 50,000-75,000 to about 10,000 in the space of two months?

Finally, as the national army of your country, do you not bear the final and ultimate responsibility to defend your borders or do you rely upon the good will of those attacking your minions to do so on your behalf?

If so, how, exactly do you actually earn your keep?

I do know this though. Your army displayed it's abilities to rapidly redeploy when it conducted that superb movement exercise between SWAT and Punjab last December. Excellent.

I know that in the fall of 2001 if you'd really, really wanted to be up on your western borders, you had all the time in the world between 9-11 and mid-November. Two months. Molasses can move that fast.

"Don't let me teach you tactics again!"

Try to denote the difference, young artillery officer, between tactics and strategy before beginning your lessons.

They constitute two different planning realms in the military art.

"No we dont defend our western borders all the time, that's what we call our stragetic depth, we always wanted to keep our western border friendly. So we dont man it as we do the eastern one."

I know that however I consider 9-11 and it's immediate implications to be extrordinary circumstance requiring an extrodinary response. Clearly with war on the western horizon and the legacy of the mujahideen among your taliban friends, you knew that they'd be retreating in your direction.

Then, with that two months preparation, was the time to crush the defeated taliban army of Afghanistan and their government.

Instead you welcomed our enemy into your lands and established them among the afghan refugee camps and in Quetta for Mullah Omar and his senior cronies.

You welcomed our enemies for all the aforementioned reasons of yours. And still do, young artillery officer.

My question was rhetorical to display the selective perspectives Pakistanis often offer on sovereignty.

"Don't make me copy that report that said that attacking al qeada in Afghanistan would instabilize Pakistan (for the obvious reasons already mentioned above) and nobody paid the heed to it."

Well after 3,000 dead citizens and residents in a space of one hour and a clear understanding as from where, you'd make you best plans, I'd like to believe because we are coming...

There wasn't a doubt in a single solitary American mind.

You should note that difference the next time some lonely F.C. outfit is left to fight and die on their own because nobody comes to their aid.

Tell you what, you give those fcuks a hug. We're killing them as there's not a damned thing to talk with A.Q. about and we aren't going to let them just smack us at will. Took awhile- WTC 94, Nairobi, Dar-es-salaam, USS Cole- but 9-11 was an indisputable wake-up call that none of my fellow citzens has yet forgotten.

"So atlast you confessed, thanks, that was the aim!"

Not necessarily. Our aim was to remove your dimwits for our dimwits and get as much of A.Q. as possible in the process. See...you'd proven immensely poor mentors and examples to your afghan cousins. In truth, you never gave an ounce of concern to any element of afghan society save the pashtu.

That just doesn't hack it so no more personal playground and strategic depth for you. Imagine this. Fifteen years from now there's a bad azzed afghan army in your west with a mutural defense pact with India.

Choke on that bone...

"They have done that with their bare hands for what you would have required may be anothe billion $??"

Cool. Let's drop that billion$ off your military aid bill and invest in some fingernail files.

"No doubt you consider a conventional war and an un-conventional conflict within your own population the same thing, therefore i suppose you have never thought for a second before killing innocents, should i quote the success rate?"

Now you're out of line. I'll spell it out for you. Those American soldiers are superbly conditioned, trained, and armed to find, fix, fight, and finish their enemies in an unconventional battlefield.

All of our company grade and field grade officers have multiple combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, most of our lieutenants, all of our senior NCOs and most of our troops.

They've fought from the Hindu Kush through Fallujah to the greenzones of the Tigris and Euphrates and up into Tal Afar. They've fought from Konar to Khost and know those hills better than your own regular forces at this point. We see F.C. and that's ALL we see.

No. We aren't "combat hardened" like Saddam's boys. I'm not bragging if I tell you that should you run into an American, Canadian, or British battalion in Afghanistan you are amidst the finest regular soldiers you'll ever likely meet.

They've traveled a long way to do this mission and virtually every soldier I know is EAGER for this mission like they weren't for Iraq. We are very emotionally invested here and we will stabilize Afghanistan to our designs. Those likely don't include you. More so with each passing day.

Thanks.

Famous last words coated with TOTAL IGNORANCE on how wars are fought and lost by EMPIRES such as yours in Afghanistan. Pray that your US still stands after and if you survive Afghanistan with your MIGHTY MOUSE CAPTAIN AMERICA ranting. Better ask the Russians and the British before you who were ranting in the same way before they ran like rats from Afghanistan not even waiting to collect their laundry!

 

[Xeric]

"A dumb strategy i must say."

Perhaps you're unaware that our plan only envisioned a foothold over the fall and winter before a spring campaign in 2002 to retake the nation? Does anybody plan for a collapse of an army between 50,000-75,000 to about 10,000 in the space of two months?

Finally, as the national army of your country, do you not bear the final and ultimate responsibility to defend your borders or do you rely upon the good will of those attacking your minions to do so on your behalf?

If so, how, exactly do you actually earn your keep?

I do know this though. Your army displayed it's abilities to rapidly redeploy when it conducted that superb movement exercise between SWAT and Punjab last December. Excellent.

I know that in the fall of 2001 if you'd really, really wanted to be up on your western borders, you had all the time in the world between 9-11 and mid-November. Two months. Molasses can move that fast.

"Don't let me teach you tactics again!"

Try to denote the difference, young artillery officer, between tactics and strategy before beginning your lessons.

They constitute two different planning realms in the military art.

"No we dont defend our western borders all the time, that's what we call our stragetic depth, we always wanted to keep our western border friendly. So we dont man it as we do the eastern one."

I know that however I consider 9-11 and it's immediate implications to be extrordinary circumstance requiring an extrodinary response. Clearly with war on the western horizon and the legacy of the mujahideen among your taliban friends, you knew that they'd be retreating in your direction.

Then, with that two months preparation, was the time to crush the defeated taliban army of Afghanistan and their government.

Instead you welcomed our enemy into your lands and established them among the afghan refugee camps and in Quetta for Mullah Omar and his senior cronies.

You welcomed our enemies for all the aforementioned reasons of yours. And still do, young artillery officer.

My question was rhetorical to display the selective perspectives Pakistanis often offer on sovereignty.

"Don't make me copy that report that said that attacking al qeada in Afghanistan would instabilize Pakistan (for the obvious reasons already mentioned above) and nobody paid the heed to it."

Well after 3,000 dead citizens and residents in a space of one hour and a clear understanding as from where, you'd make you best plans, I'd like to believe because we are coming...

There wasn't a doubt in a single solitary American mind.

You should note that difference the next time some lonely F.C. outfit is left to fight and die on their own because nobody comes to their aid.

Tell you what, you give those fcuks a hug. We're killing them as there's not a damned thing to talk with A.Q. about and we aren't going to let them just smack us at will. Took awhile- WTC 94, Nairobi, Dar-es-salaam, USS Cole- but 9-11 was an indisputable wake-up call that none of my fellow citzens has yet forgotten.

"So atlast you confessed, thanks, that was the aim!"

Not necessarily. Our aim was to remove your dimwits for our dimwits and get as much of A.Q. as possible in the process. See...you'd proven immensely poor mentors and examples to your afghan cousins. In truth, you never gave an ounce of concern to any element of afghan society save the pashtu.

That just doesn't hack it so no more personal playground and strategic depth for you. Imagine this. Fifteen years from now there's a bad azzed afghan army in your west with a mutural defense pact with India.

Choke on that bone...

"They have done that with their bare hands for what you would have required may be anothe billion $??"

Cool. Let's drop that billion$ off your military aid bill and invest in some fingernail files.

"No doubt you consider a conventional war and an un-conventional conflict within your own population the same thing, therefore i suppose you have never thought for a second before killing innocents, should i quote the success rate?"

Now you're out of line. I'll spell it out for you. Those American soldiers are superbly conditioned, trained, and armed to find, fix, fight, and finish their enemies in an unconventional battlefield.

All of our company grade and field grade officers have multiple combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, most of our lieutenants, all of our senior NCOs and most of our troops.

They've fought from the Hindu Kush through Fallujah to the greenzones of the Tigris and Euphrates and up into Tal Afar. They've fought from Konar to Khost and know those hills better than your own regular forces at this point. We see F.C. and that's ALL we see.

No. We aren't "combat hardened" like Saddam's boys. I'm not bragging if I tell you that should you run into an American, Canadian, or British battalion in Afghanistan you are amidst the finest regular soldiers you'll ever likely meet.

They've traveled a long way to do this mission and virtually every soldier I know is EAGER for this mission like they weren't for Iraq. We are very emotionally invested here and we will stabilize Afghanistan to our designs. Those likely don't include you. More so with each passing day.

Thanks.

First, i know all the sh!t about planning and execution, so please don't tell me about fall, winter and 2 months, i understand very clearly what you wanted and what you got.

Second, dude, if your artillery corps don't teach you tactical, operational, strategical and doctrinal level stuff, that's your fault, we know this sh!t very well, 12 years dont make you smart enough, believe me!

Moreover, i never knew captains in the US Army plan at the strategical level and also make policies regarding other countries, i wonder at what level your generals would be planning then?

Nice praises for you military, best of luck!

Already 8 years and billions of $, let's see how far you take it.

Probably you have forgotten that this was not a proxy war as from '79 to '89, and it has to end some day.

Lastly, you definitely have forgotten Nam!

 

[Xeric]

Whats your point?
US cares about its citizens more than Pakistan cares for its own?
US govt and armed forces took care or acted in a way that the threat to their nation can be removed.
Should we expect similar actions from Pakistan's army?

Hey jackass or smartass, whatever!

i think you worry about your front lines rather than telling us what to do, control your inside and then dictate, atleast the US first did this before it came out to lead!

And you want to suggest the the American mothers love their children more than indian or Pakistani mothers? Lovely approach, indeed.

 

[Hasnain2009]

You are shameless Hasnain!!!

U didnt get!!

I was saying that u have some knowledge!!
And ur response!!


U disappointed me!!

Now thanks!!
Dont need ur clearification!!

 

[Awesome]

Your map shows Buner, Chitral, Swabi as being under Taliban control. That's incorrect.

So are Charsadda, Peshawar, Mardan, Kohat and Karak misclassified.

Also as I posted earlier, not all tribal agencies in FATA are under the control of the Taliban.

It's again an exaggeration of the actual area under the Taliban.

I agree, I think if they lighten one shade from all the zones that would be an accurate representation. With the red zones mainly being the Northern districts.

They've marked Khyber red, yet Pakistan sends scores of logistical support through Khyber into Afghanistan on a daily basis. Shows how accurate this representation may be.

I would however prefer, a lot more green.

The truth is 72% of Afghanistan has been lost to the Taliban. That is what is spilling into Pakistan too. So Afghanistan must be pacified for Pakistan to prosper.

The map is generally fine and disputing such is quibbling. N. and S. Waziristan now very justifiably have a new name-the Islamic Emirate of Waziristan, and it is called such by these lads.

Governmental control is still pretty strong there. Pakistan will not let go of Waziristan easy as its suspected to be a hub of Indian activities.

The arrogance from some in the West is astounding - you can talk about ten billion and say that validates your 'good intentions' and claim critiquing your methods and polices amounts to 'conspiracy theories', while leveling all sorts of accusations at a nation fighting this war on its own soil, that has lost billions and thousands of soldiers and civilians.

Being from an economy of 1000th of a size of some of these western powers we still have the biggest army contributed to the Afghanistan war. I don't understand that after all the talk of an Afghanistan Surge all they could muster up was <20k soldiers? Why not send in like 100,000 of them to finish the job and not keep the whole matter on a nice simmer.

The US has that many forces. They shouldn't be left home as decoration pieces and be committed to the war.

 

[Xeric]

I agree, I think if they lighten one shade from all the zones that would be an accurate representation. With the red zones mainly being the Northern districts.

They've marked Khyber red, yet Pakistan sends scores of logistical support through Khyber into Afghanistan on a daily basis. Shows how accurate this representation may be.

I would however prefer, a lot more green.

The truth is 72% of Afghanistan has been lost to the Taliban. That is what is spilling into Pakistan too. So Afghanistan must be pacified for Pakistan to prosper.



Governmental control is still pretty strong there. Pakistan will not let go of Waziristan easy as its suspected to be a hub of Indian activities.



Being from an economy of 1000th of a size of some of these western powers we still have the biggest army contributed to the Afghanistan war. I don't understand that after all the talk of an Afghanistan Surge all they could muster up was <20k soldiers? Why not send in like 100,000 of them to finish the job and not keep the whole matter on a nice simmer.

The US has that many forces. They shouldn't be left home as decoration pieces and be committed to the war.

It would have been done long ago only if they had been serious, but the problem is they dont want to, why should they, a stable Afghanistan would bring life and prosperity to the Sub-Continent, but who will like that.

If there be peace how can the West exercise its hegemony, no show of force, no flexing of muscles, no permission for intervention in domestic affairs of other countries, so who wants peace to prevail.

And yes the billions that they are spending also needs to be recouped, so what other better option is there?

 

[rubyjackass]

Hey jackass or smartass, whatever!

i think you worry about your front lines rather than telling us what to do, control your inside and then dictate, atleast the US first did this before it came out to lead!

And you want to suggest the the American mothers love their children more than indian or Pakistani mothers? Lovely approach, indeed.

Did I ever tell anyone what to do?
I speak as an outsider about what happened.


I shouldn't have posted a reply to that stupid post in the first place. Thanx for that. Will be more careful in future

 

[Xeric]

Did I ever tell anyone what to do?
I speak as an outsider about what happened.


I shouldn't have posted a reply to that stupid post in the first place. Thanx for that. Will be more careful in future

Well lets keep the emotions out of it, if you want to be an outsider, you better be unbiased, though i know the nuclear deal has changed many brains in the largest democracy