What's new

How Much is Iran’s Economy Recovering?

You mean there is a lot of manipulation in that figures?
If yes then what would be their real GDP according to your calculations? :D


My dear Sir Nair,

If you see my earlier posts, I do not like discussing GDP, PPP, etc. these numbers are so much fudged that they are worse than similar named parties of Pakistan.

For me, what matters is yearly budget and its trends.

As I said earlier,

When you go shopping, the shopkeeper will not accept what your earning potential is. What he will be interested in is what you actually earn, month to month, year to year (and your debt repayment history).


Peace
 
Last edited:
.
You mean there is a lot of manipulation in that figures?
If yes then what would be their real GDP according to your calculations? :D
this is the quality post of a think tank of PDF :lol:

first he asks you to google the numbers , then when you destroy him by the numbers that follow up , he cries that the numbers are manipulated :lol:

so why ask to google in the first place ? and those numbers are given by IMF (international monetary fund) so his claims that those numbers are fake equals saying that he knows more about iranian economy than the IMF experts which travel here to measure those numbers :)

POSTING SHIT as always :)
 
. .
this is the quality post of a think tank of PDF :lol:

first he asks you to google the numbers , then when you destroy him by the numbers that follow up , he cries that the numbers are manipulated :lol:

so why ask to google in the first place ? and those numbers are given by IMF (international monetary fund) so his claims that those numbers are fake equals saying that he knows more about iranian economy than the IMF experts which travel here to measure those numbers :)

POSTING SHIT as always :)

Agha Jaan

Why do you assume by googling he is destroying me?

Knowledge is power.

He learned something new and I simply said to not take such numbers on face value (for any country and not just Iran).


Oh and if you care, GDP and budget numbers clearly show, Iranian economy is spiraling downwards.

This is what happens when religious people, mosque people, Mullahs and ayatullahs are asked to run a country.

it goes to dog $hite.

We did it in Pakistan, and the same results.
 
.
.
Good work bro.

However I'd urge you to look and compare with at least few other larger size countries in the region that also export oil.

Just see how Iran fares against war ravaged Iraq and a monarchy KSA.


Report for KSA vs. Iran vs. Iraq
oh cut the shyte .

you claimed that iran's economy is shrinking and your own countryman DEBUNKED you , but now comparing iran to others ?

thats all you got ?
 
.
Good work bro.

However I'd urge you to look and compare with at least few other larger size countries in the region that also export oil.

Just see how Iran fares against war ravaged Iraq and a monarchy KSA.


Report for KSA vs. Iran vs. Iraq

I have said this in the past aswell,iran has alot of potential but the leadership doesn't know that with hardly 70million population they can't challenge the whole world,you would be surprised to know that iran with this much stability still has a 12-13Billion dollars of non oil export,they don't even have the power crisis as we have in pakistan otherwise our export growth would have been atleast in double digit for this decade.

As per yet another source,iran GDP in 1995-98 was 7-8 times of Pakistan,today it is reduced to less than 4 times and i expect it to be reduced to 3times when our base year will be changed next year.

Anyway i am seriously waiting for the change in base year onwards 2015-16FY and i expect a minimum of 25% and max 40% of increase in our GDP
 
.
oh cut the shyte .

you claimed that iran's economy is shrinking and your own countryman DEBUNKED you , but now comparing iran to others ?

thats all you got ?


Agha Jaan

debunking. hahahah.



A black hole filled with oil
Iran’s economy is so inefficient, corrupt and bloated that it was heading for a fall even before sanctions. Almost all Iranians receive cash transfers meant for the poor. Last year the state spent $100 billion on subsidies, a quarter of GDP.

The economy: Melons for everyone | The Economist
The economy
Melons for everyone

A mixture of Western sanctions and bad economic management has hit prosperity

Nov 1st 2014 | From the print edition

ECONOMIC CONSIDERATIONS USED to play a vanishingly small role in Iranian politics. As Ayatollah Khomeini, who led the 1979 revolution, famously said: “We did not rise up to get cheaper melons.” For decades conservative ideologues chased Utopian visions, whatever the cost, while liberals hungered for political reforms.

That has changed in recent years. Debate in last year’s election focused on boosting the economy. Mr Rohani won because he was seen as the candidate most likely to achieve that. Conservatives used to be anti-trade, in keeping with the autarkic and socialist sentiment of the revolution. Now even the supreme leader endorses globalised capitalism. Asked why, a senior official laughs and says, “My son is in grade two and was recently standing for election as class president. I had high hopes. He is a popular guy and articulate, too, and yet he lost. I couldn’t believe it. I asked him, ‘what did you campaign for?’ ‘Justice and dignity’, he said. ‘And your opponent?’ ‘He promised the class better lunch and longer breaks between lessons.’ ”

Iranians today live much more comfortably than they did a generation ago, but the past three years have been tough. Businesses and consumers are suffering from the effects of much tighter sanctions imposed in 2011. “You literally see fewer people with shopping bags on the streets,” says a banker in Tehran. “My normally busy plumber tells me he often doesn’t get his first client until mid-week.” The merchants in the bazaar in Qazvin report a drop in revenues of between 50% and 75%. A tomato-seller reckons these are the worst times he has seen in 25 years. Merchants open later or stack and restack shelves. “The bazaar is ruined,” says one shopper. “And I feel ashamed that I can no longer afford the same food. I cannot invite anyone to my home.”

Iran’s economy is the third-biggest and most mature in the Middle East. It has a large industrial base, an educated workforce and a service sector which in 2012 accounted for 52% of the economy. That year, though, GDP fell by 5.8%, according to the central bank, and last year it dropped by another 2%. Unofficial figures are even worse.

“The bazaar is ruined,” says one shopper. “And I feel ashamed that I can no longer afford the same food. I cannot invite anyone to my home”
Over the previous decade the economy had been growing at an average rate of 5.1% a year. When it keeled over, inflation at one point shot up to over 50%, and salaries failed to keep pace. In real terms, private pay dropped by 35-40%, and government employees lost up to 50%. At least half the population suffered a dramatic loss of income. In one week in October 2012 the currency plunged by 40% against the dollar in the black market, creating panic. At its lowest point the rial was down 75%. Unemployment has rocketed. Car production, which used to account for 10% of GDP and employ 1m people, fell by about 70%, according to industry sources. A Mercedes factory in Tabriz that a few years ago was making 80 engines a day now produces just two.

All this has caused a surge of popular discontent. As former revolutionaries, the country’s leaders are aware of the dangers, yet they struggle to respond because the state has no money. In the past, thanks to free-flowing oil revenues, governments had always been able to create jobs, feed the poor, rescue banks, subsidise industry and buy off critics. But now, for the first time in a decade, the coffers are empty and the budget is in deficit. According to American government estimates, the Iranian economy is 25% smaller today than its pre-2012 growth trajectory indicated.

The proximate cause of this dramatic plunge was the launch by Western governments of one of the most stringent sanctions regimes ever, designed to force an end to Iran’s nuclear-weapons programme (see article). Iran’s main oil customers in Europe stopped buying almost overnight. America’s government banned the clearing of dollar payments, most of which go through the American financial system, by Iran’s central bank and anyone dealing with it. Iran’s government assets abroad were frozen and hundreds of state-linked firms targeted directly. Oil exports, which in 2011 had been running at about 2.5m barrels a day, declined by at least half. Imported industrial components became impossible to get hold of, fuelling unemployment and inflation.

Some non-Western states ignore the sanctions and continue to trade with Iran. The Iranian government tries to pay them in gold and turns a blind eye to smuggling, profits from which have set off a construction boom. It is hard to know how much trade still gets through, but sanctions have certainly made a serious impact.

The debate on their effectiveness has created some strange bedfellows. Western and Iranian hardliners both argue that the country’s falling living standards are solely due to sanctions—the Westerners to claim a political victory, the Iranians to blame their enemies for an ill that is partly self-inflicted.

A black hole filled with oil

Iran’s economy is so inefficient, corrupt and bloated that it was heading for a fall even before sanctions. Almost all Iranians receive cash transfers meant for the poor. Last year the state spent $100 billion on subsidies, a quarter of GDP. Until recently diesel cost the equivalent of two American cents per litre. Turkey, which has a population much the same size as Iran’s and is more industrialised, consumes about 60% less fuel. Iranian government offices are vastly overstaffed. The oil ministry has expanded from 100,000 employees in 2005 to 260,000 today. Many abuse their position. Transparency International, a Berlin-based lobby, classes Iran as “highly corrupt”. Officials routinely use public funds to invest in foreign property deals. According to one well-placed observer, “politics is a distraction from making money.” Parliamentary investigators have given warning that if the full extent of political corruption were revealed, it could cause “social shock”. Imports of luxury cars increased fivefold between 2011 and 2013, whereas sales of modest Iranian-made cars halved.

The misallocation of funds on a gargantuan scale has hurt the private sector. It accounts for only about a quarter of corporate revenues, and many firms are teetering on the verge of bankruptcy. The official figure for non-performing loans, at 18%, may be far too low. “The lack of investment capital is the country’s biggest problem. We’re $300-400 billion short every year,” says Mr Laylaz, the economist. Since 2006 investment in industry has fallen by 10-15% a year.

The banking sector is dysfunctional. Banks lend almost exclusively to state-affiliated firms. Small and medium-sized enterprises cannot get loans. The dearth of finance has spawned some ingenious solutions. For example, private landlords use apartments as collateral to borrow from tenants in lieu of rent.

Management of the Iranian economy had been poor since the revolution, but under Mr Rohani’s predecessor, Mr Ahmadinejad, it got even worse. During his eight-year tenure oil revenues more than tripled, thanks to steep price increases, and more money flooded into government coffers than in the preceding century, $800 billion in total. He spent all of it, shovelling vast sums into construction projects. Provincial towns are littered with unnecessary bridges and bypasses. His prestigious Mehr housing project created 200,000 apartments throughout the country without access to water, gas or sewerage, most of which now stand empty.

In theory some of Mr Ahmadinejad’s policies were sound. He tried to boost the private sector by selling state assets. Nine of the ten biggest companies on the Tehran stock exchange were listed in the past decade. Boards and shareholders are no longer toothless. Directors increasingly demand proper accounts, and annual general meetings can be contentious. The boss of the Asia Insurance Company was recently told by a shareholder: “A donkey could run this company better.”

But the privatisation programme still leaves much to be desired. Majority stakes were regularly sold to entities close to the state, including public pension funds, which in some cases received their stakes in lieu of money owed to them by the government. Although asset sales were open to anyone, private investors at home lacked the capital to buy large stakes and foreigners were put off by sanctions. Analysts speak of the rise of a semi-private sector.

Devaluations have made some parts of the economy more competitive. For years, Iranian goods were expensive in Iraq because of Iran’s overvalued currency. When sanctions caused the currency to slide, Iranian products almost overnight became cheaper than those from neighbouring industrial countries such as Turkey. At home, sanctions have also kept foreign competitors out; Iranian boutiques and supermarkets are full of domestic products for the first time in a decade.

The charms of self-sufficiency

Bad economic management apart, Iran’s government also inadvertently boosted the effectiveness of sanctions in two other ways. First, it had been keeping taxes too low for decades, allowing the country to become too dependent on oil revenues. Now it has to cut spending and raise taxes at the same time. Second, when Mr Ahmadinejad came to power a decade ago he abandoned the country’s long-standing policy of economic autarky. At the time Iran was almost self-sufficient. Seeing an opportunity to boost growth, the new president brought down tariffs and struck up new trade relations. The policy was a great success, but it made Iran much more vulnerable when sanctions hit home.

The government might have foreseen this. As Mr Zarif, the country’s foreign minister, wrote in an article in a Western policy journal a few months ago, “The ongoing process of globalisation, however conceived and defined, whether lauded or despised, has brought inescapable weight to bear on the foreign policies of all states, whether large or small, developed or developing…Today most nation states, regardless of their size, power, influence or other attributes, have come to realise that isolationism, whether voluntary or imposed, is neither a virtue nor an advantage.” It is the source of the article rather than the sentiment expressed in it that is remarkable. Iran has realised it has been hit by a triple whammy of oil dependency, sanctions and inefficiencies covered up by years of reckless state spending.

In his first year in office Mr Rohani has managed to stabilise the economy. The currency has levelled out and the trade surplus has gone up. Inflation is down from 45% to 15%. The president’s team of capable technocrats expects the economy to start growing again this year, perhaps by 1.5%. Cuts in subsidies have improved government finances, though they pushed up fuel prices by 75% overnight.

Yet there is a long way to go. Most energy prices continue to be subsidised by the state; petrol still costs only 28 cents a litre. Unemployment remains stubbornly high. Further reforms are needed to accelerate growth. Experts say these should include reducing cash transfers to the poor, reining in the generous welfare state, cutting industrial subsidies and firing hundreds of thousands of government employees.

Iranians have endured greater hardships in the past. American sanctions in the 1980s caused fuel and food shortages. For now, Iranians are not going hungry and the economy is nowhere near collapse. But in the longer run something will have to give. Reforms will become inevitable, but if Mr Rohani can cut a deal with the West to ease sanctions, they could be introduced more gradually and less painfully.
 
.
Agha Jaan

This is all well. But I respectfully disagree with your analysis.

Here is why?


There are two groups of countries in the world.

1. Small group with "hard currency". (US, UK, EU)
2. The rest who have "soft currency".


Group #1 will always set rules of the play.

Group #2 has to follow those rules. And if they do not, they are labeled as "axis of evil" and then Group#2 masses suffer.

Why? Because Group #2 needs hard currency to by milk, sugar, petrol, tea, wheat, in order to make gahwa and bake bread.

No hard currency, no gahwa and no bread.

Bureaucrats like you Agha, crunch numbers to keep the leaders comfy and ordinary masses in the dark.

Sadly.
Thanks brother.. you are right... But what if an economy produces most of what its people need inside from local sources... Milk from local sources... sugar, petrol, tea wheat and etc... it is the case in net importer nations... I give you examples, I know many friends in villages in Iran , they rarely come to city to buy anything..let hard currency imported stuff aside..
the core of what I said was that with smaller amount of Dollars one can buy triple amount of goods and services in Iran... This is exactly why a relatively big country and economy like Iran has what it needs by only $50 billion dollars of imported goods... It is a well known fact among economists that Economy Volume must be counted as HARDCORE existing goods and services... When you want to compare your wealth to my wealth..we should measure how many kilos of bread, meat, fruits we have with the same relative quality... do any of us have personal cars... do we own our house... how much goods and services of same quality we can afford to buy..this is the principal rule of measuring one country's economy... so , I have a very simple question here... let,s get back to 2012

The exchange rate was 1000 Iranian Tomans = 1 USD ... the Exchange rate GDP was $570 billion and PPP GDP was around 1 trilion...ok? so we have 570 billion today ( we are in 2012) let,s say in Avril 2012. Suddenly and due to political and economical sanctions unleashed, TOMORROW, the exchange rate tripled to 3500 Tomans for 1 USD... so, in this case...
can we say that any services or goods that used to produce YESTERDAY has disappeared? If not disappeared then all the goods and services still existent today are countable... do their VALUE in international market (USA) declined by three and half times since yesterday? No... This is exactly why,.... GDP by exchange rate is no credible source to measure ones economy strength... This is why despite all the sanctions and negative growth in last two years, IMF estimates the value of Iranian economy as rising up to 1.2 trillions.

Your points are absolutely right my kind brother only if we talk about a normal performing economy under no sanctions or fluctuating exchange rate. last year we had a study in our economic studies frame... We studied 12000 cases carefully selected from different visible and hidden elements of Iranian economy. We studied how much REAL adjusted purchasing power Iranians have. We came into estimations that amazed us... lower %7 had a PPP equivalent of $5000 - 8000 , next %14 = $8000 - 14000 , next %44 = $14000 - 20000, next %17 = $20000 - 30000, next %13 were of $30000 - 50000 and %5 > 100000 per year

Although Iran still has a long way catching up Europe by per capital but considering all the devastating incidents happend to Iranians from 1979 Revolution to full scale sanctions to eight years of Iran-Iraq war that shrank Iranian economy and latest central bank, oil, exports and everything sanctions, I would consider Iranian economy of in GOOD situation.

what is my forecast: well, considering the all newly diversified industries and services Iran had witnessed in last 10 years and counting into account all the infrastructure Iranian economy provided in last 20 years. I will give Iran a chance of having a constant %5 growth in next 20 years if there will be no WARS or further Sanctions... In case of continuing sanctions I would predict a relatively constant %3.5 or 4 percent growth. But I see Iran having no choice but to rely on its already talented and educated human power and minds instead of oil. Iran will dominate gas exports in 10 years and probably get out of OPEC as there is no use of it.

I give you all my brothers the right to have different ideas and all I said was my personal idea and perception of current and future Iranian economy. Maybe I,m %100 wrong..but this is what I get...
PS: I,m not a pro-government citizen... I,m with whatever is fair... from Mullahs or from Israeli
 
.
@FaujHistorian

Dude, have some shame and cut the shit, please.

Obviously, you are trying to fool PDF members, here.no one cares, though.:lol:
According to you, Iranian economy was a shrinking one.your countrymen then debunked you and afterwards you came up with new words that Iranian economy need a faster growth:lol:
 
.
@FaujHistorian

Dude, have some shame and cut the shit, please.

Obviously, you are trying to fool PDF members, here.no one cares, though.:lol:
According to you, Iranian economy was a shrinking one.your countrymen then debunked you and afterwards you came up with new words that Iranian economy need a faster growth:lol:
i'm so forgetful .

i promised myself not to debate with the guy , but then again after 3 weeks .....
 
.
@FaujHistorian

Dude, have some shame and cut the shit, please.

Obviously, you are trying to fool PDF members, here.no one cares, though.:lol:
According to you, Iranian economy was a shrinking one.your countrymen then debunked you and afterwards you came up with new words that Iranian economy need a faster growth:lol:

Agha Jaan

Calm down please. don't take it personal.

shukriya
 
.
Thanks brother.. you are right... But what if an economy produces most of what its people need inside from local sources... Milk from local sources... sugar, petrol, tea wheat and etc... it is the case in net importer nations... I give you examples, I know many friends in villages in Iran , they rarely come to city to buy anything..let hard currency imported stuff aside.. ...i

Agha Jaan


please read #38 especially this


As Mr Zarif, the country’s foreign minister, wrote in an article in a Western policy journal a few months ago, “The ongoing process of globalisation, however conceived and defined, whether lauded or despised, has brought inescapable weight to bear on the foreign policies of all states, whether large or small, developed or developing…Today most nation states, regardless of their size, power, influence or other attributes, have come to realise that isolationism, whether voluntary or imposed, is neither a virtue nor an advantage.”



May be this is what is now a reflection of many intellectuals in Iran.
 
.
i'm so forgetful .

i promised myself not to debate with the guy , but then again after 3 weeks .....
Of course, there is no positive point in having conversation with such a person.no one buys his words.
Have this in mind that our country is facing the most severe sanctions ever and we are on our own feet yet.

Be proud of your Nation!
 
.
I
I have said this in the past aswell,iran has alot of potential but the leadership doesn't know that with hardly 70million population they can't challenge the whole world,you would be surprised to know that iran with this much stability still has a 12-13Billion dollars of non oil export,they don't even have the power crisis as we have in pakistan otherwise our export growth would have been atleast in double digit for this decade.

As per yet another source,iran GDP in 1995-98 was 7-8 times of Pakistan,today it is reduced to less than 4 times and i expect it to be reduced to 3times when our base year will be changed next year.

Anyway i am seriously waiting for the change in base year onwards 2015-16FY and i expect a minimum of 25% and max 40% of increase in our GDP
I wish the best for our pakistani brothers..nothing can bother me more than seeing a capable country with huge potential not having all it deserves... I,m pretty optimistic for future Pakistani economy... but that 12-13 billion is not correct... Iranian non-crude oil exports stands at around $45 billions at the moment... yes, the petrochemicial high value products are also listed as industrial non-crude oil exports... Iran is JUST started... all the education and infrastructure being built in last 20 years now gets its fruits...

I see 2050 ranking of biggest economies as follow (maybe I,m wrong..but this is my perception)

1- China
2- India
3- USA
4- Russia
5- Brasil
6- Indonesia
7- Germany
8- South Korea
9- Turkey
10- France or UK
11- Iran
12- Canada or Australia
13- Pakistan
14- Nigeria
15- Saudi Arabia
 
.

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom