How Islamicised is the Pakistan army?

[Kasrkin]

See Agno, you are now in a position where all who seek to dismiss experience (reality) in favor of ideology (utopia) end up -- all because are unwilling not unable, to live with the results (see above) of testing of ideology (freedom of expression, as an absolute)

My friend this is a dilemma that not only AM, but governments at large confronting terrorism have to face. Its always going to be a tough balance, but that doesn't mean its not worth the effort. I, like before, would like to point out that AM does the best job he can, managing the conflicting polarities that allow for these illuminating discussions. Obviously and inevitably sometimes the lines will be crossed, and action will need to be taken.

i have not supported terrorism as i understand it. I believe PA soldiers by america in their bunkers was terrorism, so is indiscriminate predator bombing. Do u agree?

Muse was wrong about you, you don't have credible or coherent arguments. You have no material to substantiate the context or proportion of any of the allegations you make and you can easily be dismissed. But we have rules to follow, so you better refrain from equating the Pakistani armed forces with terrorists (even in the utterly clumsy manner you’re trying to) because not only is your argument pathetic beyond addressing, it is insulting and will get you banned.

 

[yarmouk]

Muse was wrong about you, you don't have credible or coherent arguments. You have no material to substantiate the context or proportion of any of the allegations you make and you can easily be dismissed. But we have rules to follow, so you better refrain from equating the Pakistani armed forces with terrorists (even in the utterly clumsy manner you’re trying to) because not only is your argument pathetic beyond addressing, it is insulting and will get you banned.

blah blah...how monotonous. u a mime?

 

[muse]

Kasrkin

See Agno, you are now in a position where all who seek to dismiss experience (reality) in favor of ideology (utopia) end up -- all because are unwilling not unable, to live with the results (see above) of testing of ideology (freedom of expression, as an absolute)

My friend this is a dilemma that not only AM, but governments at large confronting terrorism have to face. Its always going to be a tough balance, but that doesn't mean its not worth the effort. I, like before, would like to point out that AM does the best job he can, managing the conflicting polarities that allow for these illuminating discussions. Obviously and inevitably sometimes the lines will be crossed, and action will need to be taken.

No point defending AM to me, he's the best of the best as far as I'm concerned, but that does not mean I'm above holding him accountable - some lessons need not be learned over and over and over again - just to prove an ideology which always faILS, sooner or later we have to given up on ideology and stick to experience.

My advise earlier on was that if was up to me, this yarmouk character and others like hi would not have more than 1 post - We have no apology to make to our enemies, we have no obligation to give them the opportunity to spread their poison -- but that's just me.

 

[Kasrkin]

We have no apology to make to our enemies, we have no obligation to give them the opportunity to spread their poison

Yeah, well now that he is exposed what you've suggested will probably happen. I'm not sure what we're arguing about anymore BTW. But I'm fairly certain that the Mods will make the right and balanced decisions, as always...

 

[yarmouk]

did u by any chance write the Patriotic Act?

 

[yarmouk]

Yeah, well now that he is exposed what you've suggested will probably happen. I'm not sure what we're arguing about anymore BTW. But I'm fairly certain that the Mods will make the right and balanced decisions, as always...

which is to ban people who cop you out in a debate. Glasnost!

 

[waraich66]

Firstly, i am a muqallid, so eat your words. Secondly, how can u make out that i am a wahhabi/ghair muqallid blah blah when the article has nothing to do with the notion?

Then why you are supporting talaban terrorism? are you JI member?

 

[Fracker]

You dont know meaning of Jehad , Jehad means a continues struggle to practice Islamic laws according to sunnah in 24 hours daily life.Every muslim is mujahid.We are proud of it.

If you think that kital is jehad then you totally misunderstood word jehad.

Lollz, you yourself don't know the meaning of jihaad and yet again jump into correcting me. Khair, if you do some study about jihaad, then you will find there are four types of jihaad,

1. Jihad al-nafs (jihad against one’s self),
2. jihad al-Shaytaan (jihad against the Shaytaan),
3. jihad against the kaafirs
4. jihad against the hypocrites

Similarly the jihaad against kaafirs, and hypocrites also divide into four different forms,
1. tongue, 2. heart, 3. Wealth & lastly your own self.

Qital literly means fighting, while Jihaad is struggling. Qital comes under armed jihaad against kuffar & hypocrites. Lastly do some research on this word Jihaad then come up. by studying i don't mean what USA/pak government say, but what actually Islamic books/scholars speak up. Even dr. Zakir naiq didn't deny jihaad fisabi-lillah don't exists.

These talaban are not doing any jehad they are killing muslim army and responsible for IDP's and their difficulties.

Which Taliban, TTP or Taliban? Also who actually wage war against TTP? Pak army or TTP? Then how come you say they started this war? So who is responsible for IDP's, pak army or TTP?

Ps: This doesn't means TTP are right, neither i am backing TTP, Also i never said no operation should be happen against TTP, or even I said Pak army, or government is wrong. I just said who is actually responsible.

They are paid by Al qaida network , their agenda is to creat terrorism in muslim countries , they destroyed iraq ,Afghanistan and now planning to destroy Pakistan.

Lolzz.. So you really think any Al-Qaida exists? & whole world can see who actually attacked Iraq & Afghanistan. If USA is Taliban then i could easily agree on your statement that they are actually now trying to destroy pakistan, after creating TTP, and letting India to back BLA.

Why this Jehadi tola dont go to Israel and liberate Palestine ?

Phellay ek kaam tu khataam ho jay. It isn't that old news, when Taliban established in Afghanistan, they also started to speak for the jihaad for palestine, but again, how come Israel loving USA could agree on this. & interestingly you didn't mention Kashmir, Kosovi, Chechniya....

 

[Fracker]

Then why you are supporting talaban terrorism? are you JI member?

To me you are more Supporting Terrorism, while Supporting main core of the Terrorism, i.e. U S A

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

WOW! Totally fascist. I dont like u, so i will ban u. Grow up!!

If you advocate an overthrow of the Pakistani State, its constitution and legitimately elected government through force, then you will be banned.

The above is not welcome, however, disagreements over the best strategy/tactics to deal with the militant threat are completely acceptable.

You have in the interim shown no desire to back off from your equivocation of the Pakistani State and the barbaric hordes it is confronting, nor have you retracted your comments against the Pakistani state and the Constitution of Pakistan.

Good bye - have fun advocating treason and anti-state activities in the 'Islam awakening forums' - if you are the sort of poster that holds sway there, it is unfortunately more of a continuation of the 'Islamic demise' we have seen of late.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

By the way, just to clarify one more thing about rhetoric against the constitution.

The forum does not discourage discussing perceived flaws in the constitution (or the government and its policies) and whether it should be amended, and whether the 'system needs to be changed' and so forth - we do not support advocacy of violent and 'unconstitutional means' to achieve those changes in the constitution.

The constitution of Pakistan has mechanisms built in to achieve change, and changes have been relatively easy to bring about by multiple entities who have held power - take the amendments by Musharraf that everyone rails about for example (with the support of the religious parties by the way).

Revolutions do not have to be about bombing and fighting your way into the Capital and taking over the country over the dead bodies of millions. The most effective revolutions are ideological ones - where a significant number of Pakistanis can be convinced through a war of ideas (not guns) of bringing about change.

The article on the role of the media in Pakistan posted by Muse takes on added significance in this context.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

To me you are more Supporting Terrorism, while Supporting main core of the Terrorism, i.e. U S A

Please take note of my posts addressed to Yarmouk, or you'll end up the same way.

 

[Fracker]

Please take note of my posts addressed to Yarmouk, or you'll end up the same way

Now how exactly i said something against your ohh i mean this forum's rule which you mentioned in previous line (if i am not wrong)?

"The forum does not discourage discussing perceived flaws in the constitution (or the government and its policies) and whether it should be amended, and whether the 'system needs to be changed' and so forth - we do not support advocacy of violent and 'unconstitutional means' to achieve those changes in the constitutio"

I am asking this because, i should know how you actually interpret the rules? So i be careful next time, Because even if i read 100 times, i don't find anything mentioned in this rule, at least in my posts.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Please take note of my posts addressed to Yarmouk, or you'll end up the same way

Now how exactly i said something against your ohh i mean this forum's rule which you mentioned in previous line (if i am not wrong)?

In that case there is no need for further discussion on the fact that what the Taliban are doing is not 'Jihad'.

Any type of violence in that is not sanctioned by the legitimately elected government of Pakistan is illegal and 'un-Islamic', agreed?

This discussion on 'Jihad' should be over now.

 

[waraich66]

To me you are more Supporting Terrorism, while Supporting main core of the Terrorism, i.e. U S A

I am not supporting terrorism , blame game will not work , come with any logical comment