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How Islamicised is the Pakistan army?

O.K point taken, I assumed the constitution itself was Islamic as it is that of the Islamic republic of Pakistan and that all that would be required would be to apply it correctly, I guess I was wrong about that

you are referring to Zia ul-Haq's constitution

Pakistan is a pseudo-secular country. And I dream of it to be 100% secular.

Jinnah even said that regardless of religion, the people are Pakistanis. People are free to practice whatever religion they belong to.

it was called REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN.


But because of retarded leadership, the country got smaller but the name got longer.



I'm not suggeting any means justifies any given end result, if we are to accept that the methodology of a particular group might be incorrect that is not to say the aims and objectives are also incorrect.

So basically you turn your head away while they bomb our citizens, because you feel that their cause is a moral one.

Sorry to be a jerk, but you are a very confused person. You are in total total denial.

To think that there are STILL people in the world (inside and outside of Pakistan) who think taleban are Muslims --- it really amazes me.

Are you a Pakistani?
 
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We have many descriptions, the books of ahadith are full of narrations relating to his beautiful and noble appearance

doesn't change my view. Islam is a way of life. It isn't about superficial things like fashion.

People like you focus on un-important things rather than focus on the OBJECTIVE of religion and spirituality.


So why should we ban his commandments may Allah's blessings be upon him?

it doesn't say anywhere in the Quran that you have to grow a beard

and I will go the extra mile and say that females should not be forced to wear hijab/burqa if they don't want to.

You cannot impose beliefs on others. They should come naturally


What you are stating is kufr of the highest order, I strongly urge you to refrain from such blasphemous speech.

You don't know me buddy.
And you are not in a position to judge and say who is "kafir"



I repeat what I said again. Growing a beard is not mandatory. Only un-educated people will obcess over something so superficial.


If you choose to reject the teachings of Islam then that's your problem but don't try to propagate your ideals to Muslims who would take great offense at your suggestions.

as this is a discussion forum, I am entitled to my opinions.

I dont care if i offended people. I was not making "suggestions" -- I was sharing my view on a matter that was brought up.

Soldiers should not be allowed to keep beards. It is un-professional for a soldier to keep a beard --- and this is my personal opinion


Pakistan ka mathlab kiya? La illah ha ilullah

Pakistan = Muslim majority country with Christian/Hindu/Sikh minorities.

It is not a theocratic state. And I hope it stays that way.

religion has no business in state affairs. Religion is a private thing that should remain between you and the Holy Divine.
 
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Today i went to get my new Paksitani Passport and there was something that really stuck me and i found it completely stupid/absurd and downright offensive. What exactly is the point of having the heading

DECLERATION IN CASE OF MUSLIM? These are three things that i had to check

1) I am Muslim and believe in the absolute and unqualified finality of the prophethood of Muhammad (pbuh) as the last prophets.

2) I do not recognize any person who claims to be a prophet in any sense of the word or of any description whatsoever after Muhammad (Pbuh) or recognize such claimant as prophet or a religous reformer as Muslim

3) I consider Mirza Ghulam Quadiani to be an imposter nabi and also consider his followers wether belonging to the Lahori or Quadiani group, to be NON-MUSLIM.


What absolute garbage nonsense is this? Our nation is seriously hijacked by a bunch of idiots. What does this have anything to do with a Passport. Why the hell is this an issue anyways, what difference does it make? A Pakistani is a Pakistani be it from what ever creed, color or religion. A Simple Passport application form is a disgrace to say the least.


yes i had to sign a similar thing for my Passport.

its stupid as hell. And a disgrace.

we need religious lessons on our Passport. How pathetic. This is exactly what I am talking about. Imposing beliefs and ideas on others --even on their passports


:disagree::disagree:
 
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So you either denounce your religion or your citizenship.

This is the writ of the state :yahoo:

Writ of the state :tsk:

i look forward to your analysis of 'writ of the state' next time another truck bomb hits the Federal Capital or a taleban suicide bomber bombs religious shrines and Mosques.





"writ of the state"


:blah::blah::blah::blah:
 
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It certainly is a disgrace, a new shihadah, but it respresents the depth of lunacy to which "islamize" project of turning religion of FAITH into ideology.

It's interesting but you will not see any lawyers marching against this obscenity.
 
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stop beating about the bush, fund. just provide any classical reference for what u r saying.....

You dont any positive and logical answer .I have already given you example of implementation of islam 1400 Years ago.


Infact you dont have any reply? ---Nas Gia eee--
 
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Where the Hell did you get that from? Quaid-e-Azam wanted a secular state for the minorities of India, not an Islamic state just for the Muslims. If you want evidence of this, read his biographies, or just read his quotes.

by far the most intelligent post in this 10+ page thread.

Pakistanis who dont appreciate Jinnah's wishes should pack up their bags and get out of Pakistan.
 
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Western countries has done good job. Now we are even afraid/ashame of speaking about Jihaad or even islamist :)

my point of view: Before I go for the present scenario i must mention the history. in 80s, Mr. Zia ul-haq & other islamic leader call for jihaad in Afghanistan (apart from USA supported it) It was a jihaad against invadation of USSR. after USSR break-up, USA lost their interest in Afghanistan, and left pak ISI & Taliban alone. Taliban remove united front from kabul in 1996, and 1997 around 98% of afghanistan was under Taliban control. & i still remember a head line of that time "1st time in 15 years there is 98% PEACE in Afghanistan". Taliban implemented shariah, some highlights were,

1. There was peace in afghanistan, and people used to leave there shop open, without any fear.
2. They opened up a medical university in kabul and two other cities of afghanistan (& also they opened up a women section)
3. The prostitution was about to end in kabul, after the killing of the prostitutes (they have given around 3 warnings to them)
4. Opium crops were reduced and in 2001, there was zero opium crops around the afghanistan (now again Afghanistan is on the top)

Now on 9/11, american done a drama in front of the world, & literally whole world become fool because of this drama. some highlights of this drama,

1. A civilian plan hit the world trade centre and blast happen because of gallans of fuel inside.
2. A civilian plan managed to get speed upto 720mph and fly low to the ground, enter the no fly zone, even after the attack on WTC. & manage to hit Pentagon, & most Amezing none of the front camera was working at that time, which could capture this plan.
3. Just after 3 hrs (without any investigation) USA said they will attack Afghanistan, and given options to over beloved president be with us or against us, and our beloved coward president joined the power. And still Taliban ask for the proofs against Osama, but USA didn't provide, and in the end, taliban said we have asked osama to leave the country, & USA increase there demand to 32 people, and didn't even get chance to taliban to reply, just attacked Afghanistan that night.

Have many points, but these points should be sufficient. khair anyways, then USA capture Afghanistan. great the people who were fighting for human rights in afghanistan killed thousands. interestingly there was no TTP in pakistan till the whole tenor of 15 years. Now complaining start from our neighbors that taliban comes to afghanistan from Pakistan, and in between a character who was even not known previous appears & declared jihaad against Pak army. who had enough money/weapons to support big army. This was baitullah masoud. Now on the complains Pak army started operation, and killed 100s of people in waziristan, and after that an agreement happen between both parties. Now from no where another character came up, who launched FM channel in Swat. On which, he always used to cry for his insititute in waziristan destoried in waziristan, where many of his students got killed. Interestingly that insititute never exist. Fazullullah used same techtics as baitullah masoud and he had money/weapons to recurite people. This was the birth of TTP. And now many suicide bombing started throughout the country. Some points related to TTP and Taliban.

1. Many leaders including fazullullah, Mullah Umar, Musharaf accepted that there is no link between TTP and Taliban.
2. Through out the whole Taliban's time, they never destory any school/college, but TTP is certainly aginst it.
3. Taliban never did any attack pak army or any islamic military, but TTP is pure targetting islamic militaries.
4. jiha-e-Kashmir & previous afghanistan was backed by ISI & taliban, but TTP never go to kashmir or Afghanistan.
5. In 2006, Musharaf spoken for the bars, fenses and mines throughout pakistani boarder with afghanistan, but afghani government & americans was against it, and after that many dramas started, which lead "THE END" to Musharaf's career.
 
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Western countries has done good job. Now we are even afraid/ashame of speaking about Jihaad or even islamist :)



my point of view: Before I go for the present scenario i must mention the history. in 80s, Mr. Zia ul-haq & other islamic leader call for jihaad in Afghanistan (apart from USA supported it) It was a jihaad against invadation of USSR. after USSR break-up, USA lost their interest in Afghanistan, and left pak ISI & Taliban alone. Taliban remove united front from kabul in 1996, and 1997 around 98% of afghanistan was under Taliban control. & i still remember a head line of that time "1st time in 15 years there is 98% PEACE in Afghanistan". Taliban implemented shariah, some highlights were,

1. There was peace in afghanistan, and people used to leave there shop open, without any fear.
2. They opened up a medical university in kabul and two other cities of afghanistan (& also they opened up a women section)
3. The prostitution was about to end in kabul, after the killing of the prostitutes (they have given around 3 warnings to them)
4. Opium crops were reduced and in 2001, there was zero opium crops around the afghanistan (now again Afghanistan is on the top)

Now on 9/11, american done a drama in front of the world, & literally whole world become fool because of this drama. some highlights of this drama,

1. A civilian plan hit the world trade centre and blast happen because of gallans of fuel inside.
2. A civilian plan managed to get speed upto 720mph and fly low to the ground, enter the no fly zone, even after the attack on WTC. & manage to hit Pentagon, & most Amezing none of the front camera was working at that time, which could capture this plan.
3. Just after 3 hrs (without any investigation) USA said they will attack Afghanistan, and given options to over beloved president be with us or against us, and our beloved coward president joined the power. And still Taliban ask for the proofs against Osama, but USA didn't provide, and in the end, taliban said we have asked osama to leave the country, & USA increase there demand to 32 people, and didn't even get chance to taliban to reply, just attacked Afghanistan that night.

Have many points, but these points should be sufficient. khair anyways, then USA capture Afghanistan. great the people who were fighting for human rights in afghanistan killed thousands. interestingly there was no TTP in pakistan till the whole tenor of 15 years. Now complaining start from our neighbors that taliban comes to afghanistan from Pakistan, and in between a character who was even not known previous appears & declared jihaad against Pak army. who had enough money/weapons to support big army. This was baitullah masoud. Now on the complains Pak army started operation, and killed 100s of people in waziristan, and after that an agreement happen between both parties. Now from no where another character came up, who launched FM channel in Swat. On which, he always used to cry for his insititute in waziristan destoried in waziristan, where many of his students got killed. Interestingly that insititute never exist. Fazullullah used same techtics as baitullah masoud and he had money/weapons to recurite people. This was the birth of TTP. And now many suicide bombing started throughout the country. Some points related to TTP and Taliban.

1. Many leaders including fazullullah, Mullah Umar, Musharaf accepted that there is no link between TTP and Taliban.
2. Through out the whole Taliban's time, they never destory any school/college, but TTP is certainly aginst it.
3. Taliban never did any attack pak army or any islamic military, but TTP is pure targetting islamic militaries.
4. jiha-e-Kashmir & previous afghanistan was backed by ISI & taliban, but TTP never go to kashmir or Afghanistan.
5. In 2006, Musharaf spoken for the bars, fenses and mines throughout pakistani boarder with afghanistan, but afghani government & americans was against it, and after that many dramas started, which lead "THE END" to Musharaf's career.

You dont know meaning of Jehad , Jehad means a continues struggle to practice Islamic laws according to sunnah in 24 hours daily life.Every muslim is mujahid.We are proud of it.

If you think that kital is jehad then you totally misunderstood word jehad.

These talaban are not doing any jehad they are killing muslim army and responsible for IDP's and their difficulties.

They are paid by Al qaida network , their agenda is to creat terrorism in muslim countries , they destroyed iraq ,Afghanistan and now planning to destroy Pakistan.

Why this Jehadi tola dont go to Israel and liberate Palestine ?
 
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you are referring to Zia ul-Haq's constitution

Pakistan is a pseudo-secular country. And I dream of it to be 100% secular.

it was called REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN.


But because of retarded leadership, the country got smaller but the name got longer.

The country was named Islamic Republic in 1956, long before Zia came to power. Learn some history before dreaming.

The objectives resolution was passed by the Constituent Assembly, presented by the first prime minister Liaqat Ali Khan. It clearly states Pakistan is not 100% secular. This was merely 1.5 years after the creation of Pakistan.
Objectives Resolution is passed [1949]

1. Sovereignty belongs to Allah alone but He has delegated it to the State of Pakistan through its people for being exercised within the limits prescribed by Him as a sacred trust.


4. Muslims shall be enabled to order their lives in the individual and collective spheres in accordance with the teachings of Islam as set out in the Holy Quran and Sunnah.

No one is confusing secularism with atheism except you. Secularism is widely defined as seperation of state and religion, whereas the Objectives Resolution, which served as the preamble of all constitutions of Pakistan and is integral part of them, clearly states that the STATE cannot function contrary to Islam. This is the anti-thesis of secularism where the STATE does not favor any religion, nor enforces it in the collective sphere. U brown sahibs are so thick, walnuts seem like chewing gum
Are you a Pakistani?
very much, yes. are you?
 
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You dont any positive and logical answer .I have already given you example of implementation of islam 1400 Years ago.


Infact you dont have any reply? ---Nas Gia eee--

u did not answer the scores of points i raised. I asked u one classical scholar to back ur view, but u just presented ur own analysis....typical of brown sahibs....to quote mirza ghalib:

hum wuhan hain jehan say... khud hamain hamari khabar nahi aati
 
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You can disagree on the best way (strategy, tactics etc.) to handle the insurgent/militant threat, but there should be no question that the State, .........

There is no room for compromise here. Continued rhetoric against the Pakistani constitution and equivocation between the democratically elected government and the Taliban will result in a ban.

Thanks.

WOW! Totally fascist. I dont like u, so i will ban u. Grow up!!
 
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There is no room for compromise here. Continued rhetoric against the Pakistani constitution and equivocation between the democratically elected government and the Taliban will result in a ban


You've already compromised - you've allowed Talib supporters to present all manner of material - you will have noticed how well prepared they are, no sooner then asked for, they ready with links to this and that - causing more confusion.

Your problem is either that you have no respect for islamists, you do not realize that they have their stuff togther OR that that you realize all too well, wink, wink.

See Agno, you are now in a position where all who seek to dismiss experience (reality) in favor of ideology (utopia) end up -- all because are unwilling not unable, to live with the results (see above) of testing of ideology (freedom of expression, as an absolute)
 
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- you will have noticed how well prepared they are, no sooner then asked for, they ready with links to this and that


, you do not realize that they have their stuff togther OR that that you realize all too well, wink, wink.

i take it as a compliment. nationalists and blighted moderationists are always on hot air, which only takes a phone call from washington to leak it
 
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