How India’s Secret K-Family submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBM) compares with Chinese SLBMs

[HariPrasad]

Oh were we talking based on data? I'm sry...did u arrive at ur conclusion that India is ahead of China when it comes to SSBNs and SLBMs? I would very much like to see that data u have on Chinese and Indian progress. Let's show these Chinese once and for all how India is superior.

Go check who started this...u quoted me when I wasn't even addressing u.

Ok Thank you very much.

 

[帅的一匹]

it can hit any where in USA by launching along the China.coastal line.

 

[HariPrasad]

I'm not going to ask anything of you that I won't ask of myself, so here it is.

Dr. Andrew S. Erickson is a core founding member of, the U.S. Naval War College’s China Maritime Studies Institute. Other accomplishments follow.

This is btw in 2013.

"After a round of successful testing in 2012, the JL-2 appears ready to reach initial operational capability in 2013,” DoD explains."

https://jamestown.org/analyst/andrew-s-erickson/
https://thediplomat.com/2013/05/bac...port-reveals-chinese-military-developments/2/

This one is the Pentagon's report in 2018, the article itself is by Hans M. Kristensen, you can check his accomplishments on the page.

"The DOD report says that China still operates four Jin-class (Type 094) SSBNs (all based at Hainan), each of which can carry up to 12 JL-2 SLBMs"
https://fas.org/blogs/security/2018/08/dod-china-report/

"China’s JIN SSBNs, which ARE EQUIPPED to carry up to 12 CSS-N-14 (JL-2) SLBMs, are the country’s first viable sea-based nuclear deterrent."

This is the actual report of Pentagon in 2017

https://dod.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/2017_China_Military_Power_Report.PDF



Now let's take a look at your "report," by AMIT PANDEY, if you can tell me exactly who this is, I'll concede, even if the report isn't true. What about the report itself. Based on the actual reports of the pentagon in 2018 and 2017, nothing suggest what it does in your "report."

So since at least 2013, which is around when the first tests took place, no pentagon report has ever reported what this has claimed.

So, now the ball is in your court please prove me wrong. You don't even need to prove me wrong on Bill Gertz in 2018 on JL-3. Just JL-2, please do so.

This is fine.
Now you unnecessarily quotes Amit pandey. This is not his Editorial that the article contains his opinions. He has cited a Pantagon Report.

1) I fully agree that JL 2 was about to get IOC in 2013 but there is no news whether it got it or not. If you have any reference, kindly quote it. I have no news of IOC forget about FOC.
2) China's Jin class SSBN is are equiped to carry missile. This is same as we used to get the news since 2009 that Arihant is equiped to carry 12 K 15 and 4 K4 missiles. Until both K 15 and K4 were tested from Arihant, we did not claim that It is equiped with K4 and K15. Submarine had the capability to carry and fire both missiles since 2009 but it took 7 long years to actually test fire and equip the submarine. So what you say is about a possibility. However it is not clear whether JL 2 is fired from any of Chinese submarine. If you have any news , kindly give the reference. I am unaware of any such report.

3) JL 2 is fired form see. Chinese boomer has a provision to accommodate the missile but this does not mean that it is integrated. Pantagon Report exactly say this. You can prove this wrong by just citing a reference of actual firing of JL 2 from any of Chinese submarine.

it can hit any where in USA by launching along the China.coastal line.

This remind me chinese warning that their soldiers can land in New Delhi in few hours.

 

[Genesis]

This is fine.
Now you unnecessarily quotes Amit pandey. This is not his Editorial that the article contains his opinions. He has cited a Pantagon Report.

He most definitely did not, all he did was SAY he did. that's the same as nothing at all. Where is the exact passage that cites this claim. I have clearly showed where my quotes comes from. Also, having read on these report, there is nothing in there that says this at all. Unless the Pentagon report uses a different name for JL-2 half way through the report. Nothing of the sort has been mentioned.

However, there was a redesign all the way back in 1985. If this is his base for his claim than it's a straight up lie.

1) I fully agree that JL 2 was about to get IOC in 2013 but there is no news whether it got it or not. If you have any reference, kindly quote it. I have no news of IOC forget about FOC.

2) China's Jin class SSBN is are equiped to carry missile. This is same as we used to get the news since 2009 that Arihant is equiped to carry 12 K 15 and 4 K4 missiles. Until both K 15 and K4 were tested from Arihant, we did not claim that It is equiped with K4 and K15. Submarine had the capability to carry and fire both missiles since 2009 but it took 7 long years to actually test fire and equip the submarine. So what you say is about a possibility. However it is not clear whether JL 2 is fired from any of Chinese submarine. If you have any news , kindly give the reference. I am unaware of any such report.

Couple of things, you did not get news in 2009 other than speculation. Arihant only had sea trials in 2014, how did you get news in 2009. While type 094 has been around since 2007. That's a 7 year difference, not the same thing.


"A report by the National Air and Space Intelligence Center said deployment of 48 JL-2s on the four submarines has provided China with a significant nuclear strike capability."

This is again reported by Bill gertz. A respected journalist, rather than random person no one knows.

National Air and Space Intelligence Center is part of the air force of the US.

https://freebeacon.com/national-security/china-flight-tests-new-submarine-launched-missile/

What more do you want, you are never going to have China officially confirm these things.

3) JL 2 is fired form see. Chinese boomer has a provision to accommodate the missile but this does not mean that it is integrated. Pantagon Report exactly say this. You can prove this wrong by just citing a reference of actual firing of JL 2 from any of Chinese submarine.

Where did the pentagon report say this, you are going to have to start quoting the report instead of just having me take your word for it. This is an anonymous forum, both yours and my word means nothing.

"China has deployed the new CSS-N-14 SLBM on new 12-tube
JIN Class SSBNs. This missile will, for the first time, allow
Chinese SSBNs to target portions of the United States from
operating areas located near the Chinese coast."

https://www.nasic.af.mil/Portals/19/images/Fact Sheet Images/2017 Ballistic and Cruise Missile Threat_Final_small.pdf?ver=2017-07-21-083234-343

DEPLOYED, are you calling the American Air Force a liar.

Since you asked for tests.

"China carried out a flight test of a new submarine-launched ballistic missile last month that will carry multiple nuclear warheads capable of targeting most of the United States, according to American defense officials."

"The launch in late November was the first time the Chinese military flight tested the Julong-3, or JL-3 missile that will be deployed with the next generation of ballistic missile submarines, said officials familiar with the test who said it appeared successful. Julong is Chinese for Big Wave."

"Vasily Kashin, a military expert with Institute for Far Eastern Studies of the Russian Academy of Sciences, told the state-run Sputnik news outlet that China is building up more advanced missiles and submarines over concerns the current JL-2-equipped submarines are vulnerable to U.S. and Japanese naval forces."

Russian academic added to the mix.

"China within the past two years began conducting nuclear missile submarine patrols."

https://freebeacon.com/national-security/china-flight-tests-new-submarine-launched-missile/

This remind me chinese warning that their soldiers can land in New Delhi in few hours.

I'm going to need a source on this, from someone actually in the command structure. Or else this isn't anything.


I really don't know what else to add to this.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

While India might be newcomer to the world of Ballistic missile submarines (SSBN) and submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs), yet it is not too far away from China’s People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) when it comes to the Nuclear ships and missile it has under its disposal when it comes to direct comparison with regional arch-rival China.

PLAN has JL-2 (CH-SS-N-14) submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs) with a range of around 7500km is currently operational. JL-1 it’s predecessor with a range of 2500km which now has been decommissioned from the service due to technical difficulties and also due to lack of credible launch platform resulting in the development of JL-2 SLBMs which are equipped on 6 Type-094 (Jin-class) nuclear-powered ballistic-missile submarines (SSBNs).

But a Pentagon report suggests that JL-2 SLBMs are yet to be deployed on existing Type-094s due to unforeseen technical reasons and will be made operational only in larger Type-096 SSBNs or after Type-094s goes through some level of modifications. Type-096 SSBNs are likely to be operational by 2020. If we’re to believe Pentagon report, PLAN has an operational JL-2 SLBM with a range of 7500km but without a launch platform and Type-096 SSBNs will only be ready by 2020 and operationalized by mid of decade.

On the other hand, INS Arihant, India’s first Ballistic missile submarines (SSBN) has become active only with K-15 SLBM with a range of 1000km and will soon also operationalized with K-4 SLBM with a range of 3500km. Both K-15 and K-4 will go on to serve on INS Arihant and INS Arighat (second Arihant-class submarine). As per the latest Indian media reports, K-5 which is an SLBM with a range of 5000km will likely be ready to commence developmental trials from an underwater launch platform from 2019 onwards.

K-5 SLBM marks a significant jump in range and technologies for India and has been declared as the fastest missile in its class with the ability to dodge the Anti-Ballistic missile system. K-5 with lighter payload is likely to breach 7500-8000km mark and will be comparable to Chinese JL-2 SLBM. K-5 SLBM will be deployed onboard S-4 and S4* (STAR) Stretched Variants of Arihant class submarines which will have 1000-tonne more displacement.

S-4 is likely to be ready for sea trials from 2022 onwards and when commisioned with K-5 SLBMs, will allow India to hide its submarines further away from its coastline and will also possess missiles which can hit mainland China whenever required while maintaining and operating under the safe region of the oceans. Planned S-5 SSBN Class can be described as the Second generation of the Indian Ballistic missile submarines (SSBN) with over 13500 tonnes of displacement are to be developed after it marks completion of S-4 and S4* (STAR) Submarines by India. By then China’s Type-094 (Jin-class) which is a submarine in class with 11000-tonne displacement will be superseded by Type-096 SSBNs with a displacement of close to 16000 tonnes and will also see the deployment of JL-3 SLBMs with a range of 11000km.

DRDO already has been given go head to develop K-6 SLBM with a reported range of 6000km and with MIRV Capabilities which will serve onboard S-4 and S4* (STAR) and later on S-5 SSBN fleet. India’s S-5 Class of SSBNs will be vastly superior to China’s Type-094 (Jin-class) when deployed but with lower displacement than Type-096 SSBNs which will be already by then.

While India has a habit of under-reporting its missile range but with K-5 SLBM next year, India will be on its way to par with China in terms of SLBM capabilities and with K-6 will be able to match its undersea missile capabilities with China. With Type-094 (Jin-class) SSBNs, China has taken the lead but with the arrival of S-4 and S4* (STAR) Submarines along with INS Arihant and INS Arighat in Indian Navy fleet, India will establish credible Nuclear-Triad against regional rivals which later will be reinforced by next generation of S-5 SSBN Class of submarines.

idrw.org .Read more at India No 1 Defence News Website http://idrw.org/how-indias-secret-k...slbm-compares-with-chinese-slbms/#more-188005 .

Not comparable, the latest version of the JL-2 is approaching the performance of the Trident II D5, while the JL-3 that is currently approaching its deployment has even exceeded the performance and technical aspects of D5 by a large margin.

India would be lucky to achieve the performance of the JL-1.

JL3 with 12000Km range is under test, period.

The latest version of the JL-2 can already hit beyond 12000KM.

But the JL-3 will hit the same range with a considerably bigger payload and more advanced MIRV in both quality and quantity.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Had already send the details in a sealed yellow dossier to GHQ Rawalpindi. Hope that proof would be more than enough for you ??

That yellow sealed package was filled with Indian vege f@rts, thank you for making GHQ unbearable to breath for a while.

Now, where is the proof?

https://www.business-standard.com/a...-k-4-missile-from-arihant-116041301093_1.html

No, where is the proof? Any clip of the actual test with no pontoon in the vicinity?

 

[nang2]

Need to stop comparison thread wrt China. We arent nearby. They have quite a experience dealing with nuke subs and missiles. It will take years for India to gain that experience. The only area India is ahead wrt China is aircraft carriers. Not the fighters or the number of carriers, but we have the experience for more than 60 years but the advantage is fast dimming.

China also has experience with gun powder far longer than any other countries.

 

[Surya 1]

What more do you want, you are never going to have China officially confirm these things.

Whenever china test any missile, we get news. So what you say is not right. I have not asked for Chinese government conformconfi. I just asked for some news like we got the news of JL 3 testing. I didn't see anything about development of JL 2. When was submarine lost in accident? I absolutely don't know this.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

What would you take as a proof ?

A test of video with no pontoons in sight? After all, India have released previous test videos albeit with pontoons.

Not much to ask is it?

 

[Tom M]

That yellow sealed package was filled with Indian vege f@rts, thank you for making GHQ unbearable to breath for a while.

Now, where is the proof?

Oh. Very sorry to hear that. I think, sometimes people get what they actually deserver.

Now on topic,

I bet you will contest this as well. But yeah, some people are entitled to keep on living in their la, la, Land.

Not comparable, the latest version of the JL-2 is approaching the performance of the Trident II D5, while the JL-3 that is currently approaching its deployment has even exceeded the performance and technical aspects of D5 by a large margin.

India would be lucky to achieve the performance of the JL-1.



The latest version of the JL-2 can already hit beyond 12000KM.

But the JL-3 will hit the same range with a considerably bigger payload and more advanced MIRV in both quality and quantity.

A simple doubt ??

Will it cause destruction of men and material if it falls around their vicinity??

And again, it's always better late than never.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Oh. Very sorry to hear that. I think, sometimes people get what they actually deserver.

Now on topic,

I bet you will contest this as well. But yeah, some people are entitled to keep on living in their la, la, Land.

LOL what a turd.

Which part you did not understand where I say "a test without any pontoons".

Moron, put your reading glasses on and WATCH your clip again. Those two objects on surface are called "PONTOONS".

Why you rats in east are so thick??

Now, where is the test video without pontoons?

 

[Surya 1]

What more do you want, you are never going to have China officially confirm these things.

The JL-2 experienced a troubled development with long lead times and a number of test failures and delays, including a launch failure that destroyed a test submarine, he said, noting the JL-3 program is expected to be less troubled.
Above para is posted from your own reference. JL 2 had multiple failure and destroyed one subarine in testing.

"China carried out a flight test of a new submarine-launched ballistic missile last month that will carry multiple nuclear warheads capable of targeting most of the United States, according to American defense officials."

"The launch in late November was the first time the Chinese military flight tested the Julong-3, or JL-3 missile that will be deployed with the next generation of ballistic missile submarines, said officials familiar with the test who said it appeared successful. Julong is Chinese for Big Wave."

I am not denying this. I am just asking for a reference for test from submarines to ensure that it is integrated.

That yellow sealed package was filled with Indian vege f@rts, thank you for making GHQ unbearable to breath for a while.

Now, where is the proof?



No, where is the proof? Any clip of the actual test with no pontoon in the vicinity?

Ok so this is not proof? Fine. Now enjoy your wishful thinking.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Ok so this is not proof? Fine. Now enjoy your wishful thinking.

Don't take it on your heart buddy, but India has been found on many occasion arm f@rting for no reason. People need to be convinced, and hence the need to show the missile test without any poonton/tug in sight.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The JL-2 experienced a troubled development with long lead times and a number of test failures and delays, including a launch failure that destroyed a test submarine, he said, noting the JL-3 program is expected to be less troubled.
Above para is posted from your own reference. JL 2 had multiple failure and destroyed one subarine in testing.

I am not denying this. I am just asking for a reference for test from submarines to ensure that it is integrated.

China had developed the JL-2 since the 1990s.

The JL-2 was the biggest threshold for China’s SLBM, since it was China’s first three stages/2 meters diameter class/8000KM level SLBM.

The success of the JL-2 is a guaranteed success of the JL-3.

And China mostly tests the JL-2 class missiles from the Type 094 boats, sometimes from the Type 032 just to give the Type 094 more time to conduct its normal operations like patrolling/training/maintaining.

 

[Surya 1]

The success of the JL-2 is a guaranteed success of the JL-3.

Yes multiple failure and destruction of submarine in testing a big success.