HOW IAF, PAF AND PLAAF WOULD LOOK BY THE END OF 2017

[truthseeker2010]

IAF wont have 40 rafale's by 2017,..... in the most optimum of conditions it would be 18 built by dassualt.

 

[Skull and Bones]

IAF wont have 40 rafale's by 2017,..... in the most optimum of conditions it would be 18 built by dassualt.

18 will be in fly away condition within 18 months from the contract signing, and initial production rate of 14 per year. So even starting from 2015, by 2017 we'll have (28+18) 46 Rafales.

 

[cnleio]

Su 27s will be retired but you keep 3rd gen fighters??

Because current PLAAF still have 300+ J-7 fighters, updated version J-7G still produce.The supply of new domestic 4gen fighter(J11B,J10B produce 14~24 per year), so u will find there r still 3gen,4gen ,5gen fighters serving in PLAAF untill the end of 2017.
We estimate that PLAAF will compose by all 4gen,5gen fighers after 2020.


PS in the crazy year of 60s-80s, China totally produced nearly 3,000 J-6 fighters(2gen fighter,China version Mig-19) untill 2006.8 PLAAF retired all J-6 and 2010.6 formally removed J-6 Number from PLAAF. So u see, too many 2gen, 3gen fighters PLAAF ever owned and need much time to replace them.


One of retired J-6 grave, crazy China ^_^ ... some retired J-6 playing suicide UAV, like J-6 'cruise missile'.

 

[acetophenol]

also i would like to see Mig 21 bisons atleast till 2017-20.
but its highly unlikely to happen.

 

[Anony]

First off, my friend you need to do some serious research on the fleets of the airforces you included ....
secondly in my humble opinion I think you should take the timeline to about 2020 where real drastic changes in technology of all three airforces will take place ...

Now Im only here for PAF so here are few of the corrections I can offer ...

1.F-16 (18 Block 50/52's , 45 F-16 A/B to be upgraded (5 upgraded F-16's already delivered) )

Bear in mind the MLU upgrades will put the old F-16 fleet on par with the new F-16 block 50/52's - (payload+mission range+engine improvements)

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/60896-paf-f-16-mlu-specifications-36-blk-52-prospects.html

2.JF-17 ( 50 BlockI , 50 Block II, post 2015 block III would start so you can say 20 odd block III's so 120 JFT's in total)

3.J-10 ... It depends .. if chinese engines are able to satisfy PAF and if the MMRCA deal materializes then there is a strong possibility otherwise there is no concrete evidence regarding the sales besides the TT's talking about it.(which BTW is not evidence its a hunch)

4.F-7 PG and Mirage Roses will still be there with avionics matching the early 4th generation fighters. (cant comment on the quantity, depends on the number of JF-17's inducted at the time)


So if we take a look at this the quantity would be somewhere between 280-320 aircrafts

Anyways nice try dude..

I have taken 125-150 JF-17 whereas you are telling 120 only. F-16 , be it blk 15, or blk 40 , it will remain the same number and thirdly sorry dude, Rose upgrade don't make a 3rd gen fighter to a 4th gen. It's a mere upgrade of airframe and some new weapon in the PAF inventory to be integrated with these fighters. That's too upgrade coming decades back. Already outdated today.

First off, my friend you need to do some serious research on the fleets of the airforces you included ....
secondly in my humble opinion I think you should take the timeline to about 2020 where real drastic changes in technology of all three airforces will take place ...

Now Im only here for PAF so here are few of the corrections I can offer ...

1.F-16 (18 Block 50/52's , 45 F-16 A/B to be upgraded (5 upgraded F-16's already delivered) )

Bear in mind the MLU upgrades will put the old F-16 fleet on par with the new F-16 block 50/52's - (payload+mission range+engine improvements)

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/60896-paf-f-16-mlu-specifications-36-blk-52-prospects.html

2.JF-17 ( 50 BlockI , 50 Block II, post 2015 block III would start so you can say 20 odd block III's so 120 JFT's in total)

3.J-10 ... It depends .. if chinese engines are able to satisfy PAF and if the MMRCA deal materializes then there is a strong possibility otherwise there is no concrete evidence regarding the sales besides the TT's talking about it.(which BTW is not evidence its a hunch)

4.F-7 PG and Mirage Roses will still be there with avionics matching the early 4th generation fighters. (cant comment on the quantity, depends on the number of JF-17's inducted at the time)


So if we take a look at this the quantity would be somewhere between 280-320 aircrafts

Anyways nice try dude..

I have taken 125-150 JF-17 whereas you are telling 120 only. F-16 , be it blk 15, or blk 40 , it will remain the same number and thirdly sorry dude, Rose upgrade don't make a 3rd gen fighter to a 4th gen. It's a mere upgrade of airframe and some new weapon in the PAF inventory to be integrated with these fighters. That's too upgrade coming decades back. Already outdated today.

 

[Kompromat]

PAF, wont retire all F-7s, PGs will stick around for a while.

 

[Anony]

Guys, I have already mention before the start of thread, that PAF, IAF OR PLAAF may keep their 3rd gen fighter even after 2017 but these thread are for 4th gen fighter and not for 3rd gen fighter. And this is true for all three air forces. F-7 of PAF, Jaguar of IAF, and JH-7 of PLAAF.

 

[Abingdonboy]

+ for sure all Mig-21s and Mig-27s will be phased out by 2017 and this process has already begun in earnest. Of the 140+ Jags in IAF service, ~80 will be given a deep upgrade including new avionics, new engines and a new weapons suite-the rest will be phased out.

 

[acetophenol]

Guys, I have already mention before the start of thread, that PAF, IAF OR PLAAF may keep their 3rd gen fighter even after 2017 but these thread are for 4th gen fighter and not for 3rd gen fighter. And this is true for all three air forces. F-7 of PAF, Jaguar of IAF, and JH-7 of PLAAF.

I don't know about others
but the upgraded Jaguars are having evry capability of a 4th gen fighter complete with fly by wire systems

 

[abdulbarijan]

I have taken 125-150 JF-17 whereas you are telling 120 only.

And whats the problem with that, my claim is more realistic simply looking at the current state of our finances and the delay of the third batch...

F-16 , be it blk 15, or blk 40 , it will remain the same number

Nope, your numbers are also false... If PAF wanted it could have exercised the option of 18 more block 52's but it didn't
So basically im helping you reducing the projected size of our little PAF ...
From your claim of 70+ to a modest 60-65 at best...Just that there is a huge differences in between the blocks u mention and the blocks we actually will operate by 2017 if all goes well..

and thirdly sorry dude, Rose upgrade don't make a 3rd gen fighter to a 4th gen. It's a mere upgrade of airframe and some new weapon in the PAF inventory to be integrated with these fighters. That's too upgrade coming decades back. Already outdated today.

You forgot the "mere"
-Grifo M3 radar
-ECM suite and RWR
-BVR capability
-IFR
-HUD/HOTAS/MFD's etc etc incorporated in the Roses

You should see what PAC did to the Mirages ...
This thread might be of some use in that regard

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/44991-capabilities-paf-mirage-3-5-a.html

Plus I did not say 4th generation as in Mirage 2000,F-16 ,Mig-29 class etc I meant it in terms of avionics and that too "Early 4th generation"

 

[Anony]

And whats the problem with that, my claim is more realistic simply looking at the current state of our finances and the delay of the third batch...



Nope, your numbers are also false... If PAF wanted it could have exercised the option of 18 more block 52's but it didn't
So basically im helping you reducing the projected size of our little PAF ...
From your claim of 70+ to a modest 60-65 at best...Just that there is a huge differences in between the blocks u mention and the blocks we actually will operate by 2017 if all goes well..




You forgot the "mere"
-Grifo M3 radar
-ECM suite and RWR
-BVR capability
-IFR
-HUD/HOTAS/MFD's etc etc incorporated in the Roses

You should see what PAC did to the Mirages ...
This thread might be of some use in that regard

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/44991-capabilities-paf-mirage-3-5-a.html

Plus I did not say 4th generation as in Mirage 2000,F-16 ,Mig-29 class etc I meant it in terms of avionics and that too "Early 4th generation"

I don't understand the problem with we Indians and Pakistani. We just don't want to accept the basic facts.
For Pakistani:

Dude, Rose upgrade was done almost two decades back to the retired mirage III and Mirage V of Australian aircrafts which PAF had then acquired as second hand purchase. It is already outdated today. What do you think is the range of grifo m3 radar,how do you think "ECM and RWR" of two decades back technology will perform today.The whole world has retired these aircraft from their fleet by 2000 or early 2000.

For Indians:

Jaguar no doubt was a very potent fighter and I firmly believe compared with the fighters of our adversary from the west, it will still solve our purpose and that is the only reason IAF is upgrading Jaguar and we will see it in service may be till 2025 but that doesn't make it comparable with the 4th gen fighter technology. Yes some technology can be compared but these are more of routines upgrade which every fighter need to undergo to remain in service atleast once in a decade and half. Because airframe gets outdated every 6-8 years and need to be upgraded.

The main reason of it to be in service is its nuke delivering capability.

 

[Anony]

+ for sure all Mig-21s and Mig-27s will be phased out by 2017 and this process has already begun in earnest. Of the 140+ Jags in IAF service, ~80 will be given a deep upgrade including new avionics, new engines and a new weapons suite-the rest will be phased out.

Dude these are not official documents and has been made by fanboys. Mig 27 will retire when all 126 rafale will be inducted. The retiring process will start from 2020 onwards and will retire in phases and all will retire by 2025 as against initial plan of retiring all mig 27 by 2022.

 

[Sanchez]

Today PLAAF has

Su-27s/J-11As: 170
J-11Bs: 120
Su-30MKK/MKK2 100
J-10As 280
JH-7As 250

By 2017, wewould add
J-11B 150
J-16/J-18/J-15 200
J-10A
J-10B 100
JH-7B 50
J-20 20

 

[abdulbarijan]

I don't understand the problem with we Indians and Pakistani. We just don't want to accept the basic facts.
For Pakistani:

Dude, Rose upgrade was done almost two decades back to the retired mirage III and Mirage V of Australian aircrafts which PAF had then acquired as second hand purchase. It is already outdated today. What do you think is the range of grifo m3 radar,how do you think "ECM and RWR" of two decades back technology will perform today.The whole world has retired these aircraft from their fleet by 2000 or early 2000.



For Indians:

Jaguar no doubt was a very potent fighter and I firmly believe compared with the fighters of our adversary from the west, it will still solve our purpose and that is the only reason IAF is upgrading Jaguar and we will see it in service may be till 2025 but that doesn't make it comparable with the 4th gen fighter technology. Yes some technology can be compared but these are more of routines upgrade which every fighter need to undergo to remain in service atleast once in a decade and half. Because airframe gets outdated every 6-8 years and need to be upgraded.

The main reason of it to be in service is its nuke delivering capability.

Well I can agree to that however the 4th generation (early) are 3-4 decades old themselves(70's-80's) ....
Surely I wont go comparing them to 4th generation platforms such as the new F-16's, JF-17's etc in PAF however you need to understand the basic thing which is weapon employment, Mirage Roses are fighters with strike role with the upgrades that i mentioned before, now just determine their potency when they work together with force multipliers and with the ability to deliver nuclear war heads thanks to RAA'd basically.

Its not a problem, its a fact that a weapon system can be employed in a fashion where its potency increases many fold by adding force multipliers in to the mix,all you need are satisfactory basic gadgets (which in case of Roses speaking in terms of avionics they do rival the early 4th gens) ...

 

[Anony]

Today PLAAF has

Su-27s/J-11As: 170
J-11Bs: 120
Su-30MKK/MKK2 100
J-10As 280
JH-7As 250

By 2017, wewould add
J-11B 150
J-16/J-18/J-15 200
J-10A
J-10B 100
JH-7B 50
J-20 20

Can you provide any official link of your claim, because I have done some basic research before quoting these numbers. Difference of 20-40 odd fighter can be there.