How far ahead of India is China?

[Jackdaws]

say whatever you want,if you dont feel stupid

Of course I shall - my country does offer me that liberty. Shame you can't speak your mind. However if you do manage to trudge across the Himalayas without being shot by the Communist soldiers - then you too will have that freedom.

 

[Sam1980]

China is about 33 years ahead of India. We must work hard to make the gap hundreds of years.

May I know where did you get the 33 years from? Based on what criterias did you reach that conclusion? If its based on GDP per capita China will not be able to reach the current Qatar GDP per capita in the next 42 years, and that is if China maintains its current %7.8 percent growth.

GDP per capita is very important if a country wants to attract brains, it also shows that size of the country economy is rather large even if it possess small population. This will of course show that this hypothetical country has expandable income that can be spend on high-tech infrastructure and education, which are determinant to country's place in the global stage.

I deeply respect Chinese for their hardworking attitude but blind nationalism is not constructive for anyone.

 

[PITA]

Poverty is a relative term, if prices of food and land are higher in China as compared to India, then in absolute dollar terms it will vary.

Absolutely. Absolute economic numbers, when comparing two countries, are not that helpful in judging how far apart two countries are. That's what I've been saying. It just simply doesn't work that way. There's only a handful of economic metrics that should be considered. Things like the domestic savings rate per household when compared to an index for goods and services. You can take numbers like that and tell you how citizen from country A is doing relative to citizen from country B. Again, social figures tell you a lot more about how a country is doing than most economic numbers.
@Jackdaws

People in China criticize the CCP all the time. What was the point in posting this video? Pretty much every Chinese person I've ever talked to knows that the CCP is a lot more heavy handed than most governments. There, are you happy? Having said that, it has nothing to do with the topic. Most people that I've come in contact with only really care about making a living and politics isn't something that is on people's minds. Despite what you might think, we're not all running, hiding, and living in fear. If some Tibetans want to leave the country, I'm all for letting them go. Do you want people to start posting videos of Indian soldiers beating and killing people? That stuff happens everywhere in the world. It's not just in China.

 

[Okemos]

That's the deal with China. Some of them still live in caves

And you thought the world moved out of the stone age a few thousand years ago.

Apparently at least 30 million of the Chinese people still live in caves! 30 million!

You are making fun of special housing style in Loess Plateau? Read up Loess Plateau and you will understand why this housing style is popular. I don't know the exact population of people living in Loess Plateau. Plus, you can find extreme poverty in any country, even in developed country like U.S. Do you want me to post a picture from U.S.?

I also want to comment on your incessant nagging about lack of freedom of press in China. Read Southern Daily, a newspaper specifically targeting at criticizing the government. Also read some comments in Sina Weibo. Any country would not tolerate advocating overthrow of government. Because China is still one-party government, thus, the government still disallows overthrowing the one party rule. Other than that, you can criticize the government to your heart's content.

Apparently, some of Indians still live in darkness as far as China is concerned. The media has done a good job of picking up every negative news from China, with a twist of spin. Indians' perception of China really shouldn't matter, but this thread has turned into bickering over usual stereotypes again.

As far as Tibetans fleeing to India, well, because they are religious people, to them, Dalai Lama is mighty above all. Maybe they should all flee to India so we the people living in the east part don't have to support them with our tax money while they spend their entire life praying. Unproductive leeches. India, please take them.

 

[Jackdaws]

You are making fun of special housing style in Loess Plateau? Read up Loess Plateau and you will understand why this housing style is popular. I don't know the exact population of people living in Loess Plateau. Plus, you can find extreme poverty in any country, even in developed country like U.S. Do you want me to post a picture from U.S.?

I also want to comment on your incessant nagging about lack of freedom of press in China. Read Southern Daily, a newspaper specifically targeting at criticizing the government. Also read some comments in Sina Weibo. Any country would not tolerate advocating overthrow of government. Because China is still one-party government, thus, the government still disallows overthrowing the one party rule. Other than that, you can criticize the government to your heart's content.

Apparently, some of Indians still live in darkness as far as China is concerned. The media has done a good job of picking up every negative news from China, with a twist of spin. Indians' perception of China really shouldn't matter, but this thread has turned into bickering over usual stereotypes again.

As far as Tibetans fleeing to India, well, because they are religious people, to them, Dalai Lama is mighty above all. Maybe they should all flee to India so we the people living in the east part don't have to support them with our tax money while they spend their entire life praying. Unproductive leeches. India, please take them.

Nice - take over their lands forcibly, tear down their places of worship, force their leader to become a political refugee and term them "unproductive leeches".

Absolutely. Absolute economic numbers, when comparing two countries, are not that helpful in judging how far apart two countries are. That's what I've been saying. It just simply doesn't work that way. There's only a handful of economic metrics that should be considered. Things like the domestic savings rate per household when compared to an index for goods and services. You can take numbers like that and tell you how citizen from country A is doing relative to citizen from country B. Again, social figures tell you a lot more about how a country is doing than most economic numbers.
@Jackdaws

People in China criticize the CCP all the time. What was the point in posting this video? Pretty much every Chinese person I've ever talked to knows that the CCP is a lot more heavy handed than most governments. There, are you happy? Having said that, it has nothing to do with the topic. Most people that I've come in contact with only really care about making a living and politics isn't something that is on people's minds. Despite what you might think, we're not all running, hiding, and living in fear. If some Tibetans want to leave the country, I'm all for letting them go. Do you want people to start posting videos of Indian soldiers beating and killing people? That stuff happens everywhere in the world. It's not just in China.

I know they only care about making a living and not about politics or their own exploitation by the ruling elite. I concur that democracy can't flourish in a country like China - for them the One Party Rule is ideal. Only a more enlightened people would prefer a democracy and civic liberties. China enjoys being ruled and needs to be ruled - be it my Emperors or by the Japanese or by the Communist Party.

 

[Okemos]

May I know where did you get the 33 years from? Based on what criterias did you reach that conclusion? If its based on GDP per capita China will not be able to reach the current Qatar GDP per capita in the next 42 years, and that is if China maintains its current %7.8 percent growth.

GDP per capita is very important if a country wants to attract brains, it also shows that size of the country economy is rather large even if it possess small population. This will of course show that this hypothetical country have expandable income that can be spend on high-tech infrastructure and education, which are determinant to country's place in the global stage.

I deeply respect Chinese for their hardworking attitude but blind nationalism is not constructive for anyone.

GDP per capita is very inaccurate indicator of social and economic development in large and tiny countries, due to economy of scales. Also China's currency is not freely tradeable, so China's GDP in dollar terms does not paint accurate picture of size of economy. Also there is difference between industrialized countries and resource exporting countries. I have traveled to lots of countries. Mexico's GDP per capita is about 20k, but China is as developed as, if not more developed than, Mexico. Some of African countries have over 10k GPD per capita, but their living condition and infrastructure are way way below those in China.

Of course, I have no clue how far China is ahead of India and I think any comparison is silly.

 

[Jackdaws]

You are making fun of special housing style in Loess Plateau? Read up Loess Plateau and you will understand why this housing style is popular. I don't know the exact population of people living in Loess Plateau. Plus, you can find extreme poverty in any country, even in developed country like U.S. Do you want me to post a picture from U.S.?

I also want to comment on your incessant nagging about lack of freedom of press in China. Read Southern Daily, a newspaper specifically targeting at criticizing the government. Also read some comments in Sina Weibo. Any country would not tolerate advocating overthrow of government. Because China is still one-party government, thus, the government still disallows overthrowing the one party rule. Other than that, you can criticize the government to your heart's content.

Apparently, some of Indians still live in darkness as far as China is concerned. The media has done a good job of picking up every negative news from China, with a twist of spin. Indians' perception of China really shouldn't matter, but this thread has turned into bickering over usual stereotypes again.

As far as Tibetans fleeing to India, well, because they are religious people, to them, Dalai Lama is mighty above all. Maybe they should all flee to India so we the people living in the east part don't have to support them with our tax money while they spend their entire life praying. Unproductive leeches. India, please take them.

Any country would not tolerate advocating overthrow of government??????

Actually, all civilized countries give their citizens a chance to overthrow the ruling Government in a peaceful manner every 5 years. Countries like Zimbabwe, Saudi Arabia, North Korea and China are clearly not in this bracket.

 

[Okemos]

Nice - take over their lands forcibly, tear down their places of worship, force their leader to become a political refugee and term them "unproductive leeches".



I know they only care about making a living and not about politics or their own exploitation by the ruling elite. I concur that democracy can't flourish in a country like China - for them the One Party Rule is ideal. Only a more enlightened people would prefer a democracy and civic liberties. China enjoys being ruled and needs to be ruled - be it my Emperors or by the Japanese or by the Communist Party.

Judging from your last paragraph, you are just a douche bag I have wasted time responding to you.

 

[Pfpilot]

It is generally a bad idea to judge nations as pure revenue generating entities. While Economics is the surest and most foolproof way to compare nations, its not a good idea to use it to make sweeping generalizations. One of the major reasons is the role of geopolitics. Where human emotions and relations are involved, nations hardly follow a predetermined path.

I don't believe anyone will argue that China is ahead of India today. But how far ahead depends on the key indicators one focuses on. This raises the issue that both sides can conveniently pick and choose statistics in order to prove their point. I believe it is of little consequence which nation is further ahead today, since the balance of power is there for all to see. Whether the Chinese have a more advanced industrial base or not doesn't change the stalemate that exists between the two nations. For all intents and purposes the two nations are equal, in regards to their ability to influence and pressure each other.

Having said that, comparing future prospects of the two nations is understandable. Based on their future economic strength, we can estimate their position in the global hierarchy a few decades from now. This brings back the issue of geopolitics. As the two premier powers moving forward, China and India will be fighting for the same resources and influence over the same nations. Also, as is already obvious, other powerful nations will pick sides and sway the balance of power one way or the other. So it may be easy to proclaim that China or India will outgrow the other and establish supremacy in 'x' years. But it overlooks the history of this planet. As China strengthens, could a threatened West and India not preemptively cripple it economically or militarily? I don't speak of all out destruction, but of limiting the Chinese economic expansion and stagnating it's powerful economy. On the other hand, as India becomes a growing threat to the Chinese axis, could China and its allies not throw a wrench in their rapid development? These are but two extremes of the spectrum. In reality, there will be smaller events that tweak the circumstances of each nation little by little. To the point that the geopolitical reality we predict today may have no bearing on what ends up transpiring. History is littered with promising nations being economically sabotaged or militarily vanquished by threatened parties.

The two nations will continue to look for any and all advantages over the other. Their increasingly relevant position in the world will raise issues unforeseen today. So it is better to enjoy the present prosperity and discuss future relations based on safer and less extreme assessments. Just as the present shows their relative equality, the future will reveal which nation ends up ahead. But we are not privy to that information just yet.

 

[BigDaddyWatch]

Of course I shall - my country does offer me that liberty. Shame you can't speak your mind. However if you do manage to trudge across the Himalayas without being shot by the Communist soldiers - then you too will have that freedom.

India is far from being the land of the free like you want to portray it. Or else how do you explain why everyone from Kashmiris to Maoist are picking up weapons to fight the Indian state ? These rebellions are linked to the deep seated injustices in India's economic, social and political system. Like the thousands of peasants that kill them selfs each year. In another post you mentioned Chinatown in Kolkata. It is true there are about 20,000 Chinese living in Kolkata. But they are the descendents from immigrants from way back to the 18th and 19th century. So they are not recent immigrants.

 

[Skyman]

China is way ahead of India because of its goverment, and thats the biggest gap India has. If its filled then China can be easily beaten given the access India has at its doors.

Easily beaten?
That's what you thought in 1962 too, we all know what happened then

Any country would not tolerate advocating overthrow of government??????

Actually, all civilized countries give their citizens a chance to overthrow the ruling Government in a peaceful manner every 5 years. Countries like Zimbabwe, Saudi Arabia, North Korea and China are clearly not in this bracket.

Sikhs tried to gain independence from the mass murdering thugs in New Delhi but the innocent Sikhs were ruthlessly crushed when the despotic Indian regime sent its military goons with their tanks to destroy the golden temple.
Muslims all over India are being massacred and burnt alive.
Tamils are being systematically exterminated by the fascists in New Delhi.

 

[Sam1980]

GDP per capita is very inaccurate indicator of social and economic development in large and tiny countries, due to economy of scales.

I didn't say GDP per capita was the only important factor, let me clarify my previous statement with an example about Qatar, I think it also answers the rest of your post regarding "difference between industrialized countries and resource exporting countries.".

What Qatar is doing is different, Qatar stability and growth has attracted major U.S. companies (and others as well) and universities, they're building their infrastructure and training their population and they will certainly not remain a resource exporting country, while Qatar low-population might not indicate that it can be a technological hub, but I do believe in quality over quantity, Singapore could be a good example, a country with no natural resources, low population yet highly educated, advanced and rich.

While small countries, will not (likely) have the opportunity to become military superpowers but they can certainly have the potential to become technological superpowers.

Back to our discussion about the role of GDP per capita, countries with high GDP per capita as indicated by Qatar and Singapore always provide best working opportunities, for example: In addition to extremely high salaries, expats in Qatar are insured and are usually provided with accommodations for them and their families. This perfect working environment demands the best experts in the fields, therefore absorbs the brains from all around the world, these brains will then build the foundation of the Qatar technological infrastructure and economy.

GDP per capital although doesn't indicate the size of overall economy but it shows that country does in fact has disposable income relative to its size.

Of course, I have no clue how far China is ahead of India and I think any comparison is silly.

China is certainly ahead of India, not 33 years, but its ahead, China good management has led to steady growth of its economy, its cheap labour and stability has attracted thousands of American (and others) companies and all this created an environment that is better received to a foreign investor compared to India. For a country to maintain its growth foreign investment is essential. Of course we are not including sociological factors and cultures.

 

[PITA]

Sure per capita tells you that if you take into account expenditures. By itself, it doesn't tell you disposable income. Economics 101: a roast chicken in country A is the same as a roast chicken in country B. But all associated costs of production are different. That's why it's been said before in this thread that many economic figures by themselves are unreliable.

 

[Jackdaws]

Judging from your last paragraph, you are just a douche bag I have wasted time responding to you.

Refrain from making personal comments if you have no logical points to counter with.

Easily beaten?
That's what you thought in 1962 too, we all know what happened then



Sikhs tried to gain independence from the mass murdering thugs in New Delhi but the innocent Sikhs were ruthlessly crushed when the despotic Indian regime sent its military goons with their tanks to destroy the golden temple.
Muslims all over India are being massacred and burnt alive.
Tamils are being systematically exterminated by the fascists in New Delhi.

Is that what the state controlled Chinese media reported to its citizens? LOL - no wonder the democratic world sees China as nothing more than a giant sweatshop and a laughing stock.

 

[Jackdaws]

India is far from being the land of the free like you want to portray it. Or else how do you explain why everyone from Kashmiris to Maoist are picking up weapons to fight the Indian state ? These rebellions are linked to the deep seated injustices in India's economic, social and political system. Like the thousands of peasants that kill them selfs each year. In another post you mentioned Chinatown in Kolkata. It is true there are about 20,000 Chinese living in Kolkata. But they are the descendents from immigrants from way back to the 18th and 19th century. So they are not recent immigrants.

Of course there are deep seated injustices in India - but this is true of all societies and all democratic societies in their earlier avatars go through a learning curve. Communist nations implode.