How far ahead of India is China?

[kewell333]

GDP:
China:$8.3 trillion(8.7 trillion include Hongkong and macau)
India:$1.7 trillion

Growth:
China:7.8%
India: 4.5%

When India have to reduce deficit now,the growth will decline more.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

"China was a $2 trillion economy in 2002. So India is 11 years behind China in the grand sweepstakes. "

This is the stupidest piece of analysis I have ever heard。

One 2002 dollar is very different from one 2013 dollar!!!

India has seen average inflation of some 10-15% in the last 11 years.

So you must discount India's 2012 GDP of 1.8 trillion by 2.8-4.6 to arrive at a constant dollar GDP of some 0.4-0.64 trillion dollars in 2002.

Your calculations are not necessarily correct. The value of the dollar in 2002 - has it seriously dropped in comparison to 2013? I have always seen it hover in 45-50 range (wrt Indian rupees) with a few ourlier spikes and trufs. If at two different points you measure the GDP using a measure that's not too significantly different, the numbers will still hold.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Sure per capita tells you that if you take into account expenditures. By itself, it doesn't tell you disposable income. Economics 101: a roast chicken in country A is the same as a roast chicken in country B. But all associated costs of production are different. That's why it's been said before in this thread that many economic figures by themselves are unreliable.

that's why PPP estimates for GDP are also drawn up- to see what a certain GDP number actually buys for it's citizens.

GDP per capita is very inaccurate indicator of social and economic development in large and tiny countries, due to economy of scales. Also China's currency is not freely tradeable, so China's GDP in dollar terms does not paint accurate picture of size of economy. Also there is difference between industrialized countries and resource exporting countries. I have traveled to lots of countries. Mexico's GDP per capita is about 20k, but China is as developed as, if not more developed than, Mexico. Some of African countries have over 10k GPD per capita, but their living condition and infrastructure are way way below those in China.

Of course, I have no clue how far China is ahead of India and I think any comparison is silly.

???????????????

 

[cirr]

Your calculations are not necessarily correct. The value of the dollar in 2002 - has it seriously dropped in comparison to 2013? I have always seen it hover in 45-50 range (wrt Indian rupees) with a few ourlier spikes and trufs. If at two different points you measure the GDP using a measure that's not too significantly different, the numbers will still hold.

Of course it has。

I can buy a ton of rice for one dollar back in 2002.

It is a fact that India is a country that has seen high- and even hype-inflation in the past 10 years or so。

Why

 

[shuttler]

China has 150 000 000 people below poverty line

India has 300 000 000 people below poverty line.

In India you can see poor people everywhere while in China's photos and videos you will never see poor people.
ITs both funny and strange...

the difference is we raise the poverty line to take up more responsibilties while indians lower it.

China raises poverty line by 80 pct to benefit over 100 mln

India's poverty line now lowered to Rs 28 per day

 

[cirr]

Your calculations are not necessarily correct. The value of the dollar in 2002 - has it seriously dropped in comparison to 2013? I have always seen it hover in 45-50 range (wrt Indian rupees) with a few ourlier spikes and trufs. If at two different points you measure the GDP using a measure that's not too significantly different, the numbers will still hold.

Are you saying that a kilogram of rice costs the same in international market in 2002 and 2013？

Are you saying that one dollar can buy the same square meter of floor space in an Indian apartment in 2002 and 2013？

Are you saying that one can pay the same amount of dollars for a house servant in India in 2002 and 2013？

If true，then India has been the Japan of the Southeast Asia for the past 11 years。

 

[cirr]

Our Indian friends prefer to talk about PPP when the dollar economy at market exchange rates is small。

While I have no idea if the Indian PPP figure represents the true state of the Indian economy，I know for a fact that the Chinese figure is a poor estimate based on economic census conducted on 30 coastal cities where the economy is the most developed in China。

The Chinese PPP is therefore a huge under-estiamte。And it is THE reason why the UN is carrying out a new survey to incorporate data collected of inland areas，especially the vast central and western regions。The results of this endeanvour are due for publication in a couple of years。

 

[shuttler]

It's not so much the economic numbers that matter. It's the social figures. That's what society is all about. It's being able to provide to the population the necessities for growth and prosperity. Even if India eventually outpaces China in economic terms, it won't mean much unless the little guy gets fed, educated, and lives long enough to contribute to the rest of society. A high GDP could mean that the elite in a country is hoarding everything while nothing gets solved at the bottom. Or it could mean that the wealth created gets circulated thus having a more sustainable and healthy economy.

Absolutely!
Not only in economic figures as narrowly scoped as GDP or Fx reserves, but in a wide social spectrum ranging from sports and culture, education, scientific research and development outputs, life expectancy, health and welfare, HDI, crime rates and social orders ..all take into account.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Are you saying that a kilogram of rice costs the same in international market in 2002 and 2013？

Are you saying that one dollar can buy the same square meter of floor space in an Indian apartment in 2002 and 2013？

Are you saying that one can pay the same amount of dollars for a house servant in India in 2002 and 2013？

If true，then India has been the Japan of the Southeast Asia for the past 11 years。

It doesn't matter whether a kilo of rice costs the same or different in India or international between 2002 and 2011. The question is how much the dollar has gone up or down compared to it's own value since then. This will ensure that the 'scale' you are using is relatively stable.

Absolutely!
Not only in economic figures as narrowly scoped as GDP or Fx reserves, but in a wide social spectrum ranging from sports and culture, education, scientific research and development outputs, life expectancy, health and welfare, HDI, crime rates and social orders ..all take into account.

The nightmare scenario for the planet isn't India having to do much more to control social and crime indices- it is the possibility of a violent power struggle in china. Between the two, the unfinished political agenda of China poses the bigger risk, including for china where all economic growth can miraculously be dented if it is not fixed.

 

[BigDaddyWatch]

It doesn't matter whether a kilo of rice costs the same or different in India or international between 2002 and 2011. The question is how much the dollar has gone up or down compared to it's own value since then. This will ensure that the 'scale' you are using is relatively stable.



The nightmare scenario for the planet isn't India having to do much more to control social and crime indices- it is the possibility of a violent power struggle in China. Between the two, the unfinished political agenda of China poses the bigger risk, including for china where all economic growth can miraculously be dented if it is not fixed.

Actually Cirr is correct the prices of everything has gone up for the past 10 years, the value of the USD has gone down quite considerably. You can't draw a strait line between China's GDP in 2002 and India's GDP in 2012 in dollar terms.

The question is how much the dollar has gone up or down compared to it's own value since then.

This is you're reasoning, to me it's a big huh. The value of any currency should be measured at what and how much things you can buy with it ie inlation/deflation.

People have been saying for decades now that India sooner or later will collapse even great minds today like Lee Kuan Yew and Jim Rogers are saying that "India is a artificial state".

Of course there are deep seated injustices in India - but this is true of all societies and all democratic societies in their earlier avatars go through a learning curve. Communist nations implode.

1. China today is no longer Communist.
2. People have been saying since India's inception till today that it will eventually collapse.

 

[Jackdaws]

Actually Cirr is correct the prices of everything has gone up for the past 10 years, the value of the USD has gone down quite considerably. You can't draw a strait line between China's GDP in 2002 and India's GDP in 2012 in dollar terms.


This is you're reasoning, to me it's a big huh. The value of any currency should be measured at what and how much things you can buy with it ie inlation/deflation.

People have been saying for decades now that India sooner or later will collapse even great minds today like Lee Kuan Yew and Jim Rogers are saying that "India is a artificial state".



1. China today is no longer Communist.
2. People have been saying since India's inception till today that it will eventually collapse.

Of course it is communist. What else is it?

 

[Shardul.....the lion]

the difference is we raise the poverty line to take up more responsibilties while indians lower it.

China raises poverty line by 80 pct to benefit over 100 mln

India's poverty line now lowered to Rs 28 per day

You dont get point of our government.

They want to weed out corruption and focus absolutely on poorest of poor, so that they are helped out in livelihood in subsidized ration and gas. We don' t have luxury of trillion dollar reserves like CHina. SO we have to focus our resources to most needy people. Hope you get my point

 

[Skyman]

You dont get point of our government.

They want to weed out corruption and focus absolutely on poorest of poor, so that they are helped out in livelihood in subsidized ration and gas. We don' t have luxury of trillion dollar reserves like CHina. SO we have to focus our resources to most needy people. Hope you get my point

Wut?
How is lowering the poverty line going to benefit your people? What utter nonsense.

 

[BigDaddyWatch]

Of course it is communist. What else is it?

Capitalist.

 

[Shardul.....the lion]

Wut?
How is lowering the poverty line going to benefit your people? What utter nonsense.

Is it that difficult to get?

You have less amount of money so you want to distribute the subsidized food to lowest strata of life. Hence decrease in poverty line means absolutely poor people will get the help from govt.
In India due to corruption you will see many people faking poverty certificates to get subsidized things. THis is what govt wants to avoid.