How do you Chinese view the rapid development of the past 35 years?

[AndrewJin]

Sort of. That sort of system sucks big time and I experience it as civil servant. Our civil service while reasonably corruption free is a harem of eunuch and cocck suckers.

It is full of court intrigue. And suddenly, I sort of understand and feel the political fight of Mao and comrades.

It may suck according to your experience, but u will feel it more sucking when Singapore is a so-called democracy. Chinese simply need strong leading and management, or you people from Fujian, from Canton, from anywhere will have their own parties, chaotic and election-oriented. Think about the political status of Chinese in Malaysia. @powastick

 

[Lux de Veritas]

It may suck according to your experience, but u will feel it more sucking when Singapore is a so-called democracy. Chinese simply need strong leading and management, or you people from Fujian, from Canton, from anywhere will have their parties, chaotic and election-oriented.

As I civil servant I saw a lot of backstabbing and fighting. It is really a jungle world.

I quit and to become a software developer and I realize I am free.

I read CPC and China imperial history and suddenly due to my experience in civil service, I am able to feel deeply.

Singapore civil service is probably a evolved form of Chinese imperial culture. I believe China after her explosive growth will stagnate.

The Chinese politics is terrible and it has a lot of exhaustion for the participant.

Even in doing software in Singapore, the politics is still a lot. The white man lab makes me feel far far far better than Singapore office.

 

[cnleio]

@cnleio, China have impressive skyline, don't you think india needs more SS like these ?
World One
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/89/World_One_Mumbai.png
World One - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
India Tower
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/India_Tower_Mumbai.jpg
India Tower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Skyscraper is the result of local economic boom ... when India economy developing, u will also get more skyscrapers like today China or other developed nations.

The experince of China rapid development, it is:
1. To invest traffic constructions, like high-quality highways, railways, subways (airport is the last)
2. To invest local infrastructures, like community, PLAZA, office buildings
3. To invest public facilities, provide efficient services for ppl.

This is a complicated municipal engineering, it needs multi-government departments work together (many officials: central + local governments) and banks fund supports(huge billions of money). Anyways a long-term goal (10~15 years national strategic plan) + high-efficient service-oriented government (Corruption is inevitable, must be efficiency), all need.<=== The key

 

[AndrewJin]

As I civil servant I saw a lot of backstabbing and fighting. It is really a jungle world.

I quit and to become a software developer and I realize I am free.

I read CPC and China imperial history and suddenly due to my experience in civil service, I am able to feel deeply.

Singapore civil service is probably a evolved form of Chinese imperial culture. I believe China after her explosive growth will stagnate.

The Chinese politics is terrible and it has a lot of exhaustion for the participant.

Even in doing software in Singapore, the politics is still a lot. The white man lab makes me feel far far far better than Singapore office.

Again, you can't make judgements when u don't have experiences in other forms of government, I'm convinced you would feel more sorry if Singapore chose another form. You have to know the differences between后宫 and 前朝, you can't just see the chaos of 后宫，without looking at前朝， The forbidden City is made of these two parts.
The new demographic bonus in China has just begun, a huge market and a leading role in the ongoing technical revolution.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Without a doubt National Planning is a major independent variable. China's leadership should be credited with the tangential success through the countless 5 year plans throughout the CPC's existence. These are reactive, reform-oriented and by design are not static , but progress oriented. That is what I admire about China's one party system.

Yup National Planning is a major independent variable. The effect of it is particularly critical to China (and say NK, VN) than to other countries (say JP/SK/TW/HK/SG which are either complete free market or quasi-Laissez-faire) for there is no check-and-balance. Hence inappropriate planning in China could lead to results like 1950-1970's, while correct planning from 1980's onwards would yield exactly opposite results as witnessed today.

Knowing previous failures, national planning in China since 1980's onwards is basically open up the economy to the private sector, i.e. government step back and play support, just like what other governments in advanced economies have been doing. Majority of the wealth created from manufacturing (fully competitive market, domestic and international) are by private sector, not by the state which only controls domestic supplies of basic services. Yes this works so far so good, success belongs to all hardworking Chinese people in the private sector, the only credit for the state is that it let market do what they are supposed to do, and keep out the invisible hands unless it is necessary, just like in other countries.

Since national plannings differ so much across the region, the success of JP/TW/SK/HK/SG and so-far satisfactory development of China should have been driven by other more crucial factors like:
- Work ethics
- Traditional values (education, family responsibility, social responsibility, honor)

I'm looking forward to the 13th 5-year plan, especially plans in railway sector.

Yup!

@Nihonjin1051

I think infrastructure (HSR, even urban subways), typically part of ultra-long-term state/urban planning, is one area that the market fail to perform, hence it would deeply reply on the state to the take the lead. What's your view?

 

[Lux de Veritas]

I have also work in one of my companies' Japan office. I met PRC stationed in the office. We talked and we agree that Japanese politics is far far easier to navigate and there is a certain set of stealth rules which is more or less being followed.

The Chinese style office politics is extremely chaotic and littered with time bomb. There is almost no well defined rules and regulations. You almost face challenges within your turf at regular basis and you need to defend it. If you fail that, you become a public target and soon you are out of the game. Fortunately, Chinese has the innate desire to get things done.

Worst in the whole world is Indian style. Totally fuxx up. When Indian run things, there is one clear rules I see. Indians do not care and will run anything into shit. The most important thing is that they must be in charge. And worse Indians do not care when things got screwed. Also Indians like to poison office atmosphere.

 

[Aepsilons]

I think infrastructure (HSR, even urban subways), typically part of ultra-long-term state/urban planning, is one area that the market fail to perform, hence it would deeply reply on the state to the take the lead. What's your view?

Hey buddy @Shotgunner51 ,

Transportation sector definitely is an area that requires government subsidy, its not just for the sake of gain, its use is beyond the profit, its importance is allowing citizens an easy, affordable transportation service , which in itself helps in the work force , and offsets the cost of gas prices --- access to HSR systems is indispensable.

 

[AndrewJin]

I have also work in one of my companies' Japan office. I met PRC stationed in the office. We talked and we agree that Japanese politics is far far easier to navigate and there is a certain set of stealth rules which is more or less being followed.

The Chinese style office politics is extremely chaotic and littered with time bomb. There is almost no well defined rules and regulations. You almost face challenges within your turf at regular basis and you need to defend it. If you fail that, you become a public target and soon you are out of the game. Fortunately, Chinese has the innate desire to get things done.

Worst in the whole world is Indian style. Totally fuxx up. When Indian run things, there is one clear rules I see. Indians do not care and will run anything into shit. The most important thing is that they must be in charge. And worse Indians do not care when things got screwed. Also Indians like to poison office atmosphere.

U have no ideas about Chinese new private IT Giants. Old style state-owned company might be as you said to some extent. But a lot of companies which are the best or in the leading position in their own fields are also state-owned, they have the most advanced management.

Your image clearly, still in the 1980s.
In think overseas Chinese to some extent is even more conventional Chinese than us. Like some Chinese I met in Australia, seem like from Qing Dynasty.

 

[Aepsilons]

I have also work in one of my companies' Japan office. I met PRC stationed in the office. We talked and we agree that Japanese politics is far far easier to navigate and there is a certain set of stealth rules which is more or less being followed.

The Chinese style office politics is extremely chaotic and littered with time bomb. There is almost no well defined rules and regulations. You almost face challenges within your turf at regular basis and you need to defend it. If you fail that, you become a public target and soon you are out of the game. Fortunately, Chinese has the innate desire to get things done.

Worst in the whole world is Indian style. Totally fuxx up. When Indian run things, there is one clear rules I see. Indians do not care and will run anything into shit. The most important thing is that they must be in charge. And worse Indians do not care when things got screwed. Also Indians like to poison office atmosphere.

I can't follow your premise. Your points are all over the place -- and it always ends down to poor Indian planning or inefficiency of Indians. Are you purposely trying to troll?

- Work ethics
- Traditional values (education, family responsibility, social responsibility, honor)

Absolutely.

 

[AndrewJin]

I can't follow your premise. Your points are all over the place -- and it always ends down to poor Indian planning or inefficiency of Indians. Are you purposely trying to troll?



Absolutely.

All of a sudden, this thread is going nowhere

 

[Aepsilons]

All of a sudden, this thread is going nowhere

Let's just get back to the subject matter.

Back to topic; I admire a strong uniparty system, and I like the model of the CPC (to an extent; I'm not in favor of Communism, just some aspects of of it). A one party system would be excellent for Japan; for too long has Japanese policy and national planning been affected by Japanese inter-party argumentation and scandal revelations (in attempt to discredit politicians).

I'm in favor of a Japanese uniparty representative democracy, with the Emperor taking a more robust role , not just as a symbol of the State.

 

[AndrewJin]

Let's just get back to the subject matter.

Back to topic; I admire a strong uniparty system, and I like the model of the CPC (to an extent; I'm not in favor of Communism, just some aspects of of it). A one party system would be excellent for Japan; for too long has Japanese policy and national planning been affected by Japanese inter-party argumentation and scandal revelations (in attempt to discredit politicians).

I'm in favor of a Japanese uniparty representative democracy, with the Emperor taking a more robust role , not just as a symbol of the State.

If it is one party, can it be called democracy? I am in favor of one party plus an independent legal system, if the word communism sounds horrible, just change it to, say Chinese People Party? I don't see many real communism elements in CPC, Chairman Mao and Lenin would cry.

 

[Aepsilons]

If it is one party, can it be called democracy? I am in favor of one party plus an independent legal system, if the word communism sounds horrible, just change it to, say Chinese People Party? I don't see many real communism elements in CPC, Chairman Mao and Lenin would cry.

Of course it would still be a democracy, as they'd still be elected, the electoral apparatus still would be there. I just don't like the multi-partied system since national policy plans are subject to change by any anomaly in elections. For exmaple, let's say the Diet were to say be replaced with a DPJ-led majority, then all the policies heralded by the LDP-led diet (with New Komeito) would be subject to change. A new Government will be made with a DPJ Prime Minister.

This is too fragile, in my opinion; then again, that has always been the caveat for multi-party representative democracies. Japan, by her very nature, was never a pure democracy, but was a Constitutional Monarchy, power was centered on the Emperor. The limitation of the Emperor's powers was seen after the end of WWII.

I believe there needs to be orientation towards the old system.

 

[AndrewJin]

Of course it would still be a democracy, as they'd still be elected, the electoral apparatus still would be there. I just don't like the multi-partied system since national policy plans are subject to change by any anomaly in elections. For exmaple, let's say the Diet were to say be replaced with a DPJ-led majority, then all the policies heralded by the LDP-led diet (with New Komeito) would be subject to change. A new Government will be made with a DPJ Prime Minister.

This is too fragile, in my opinion; then again, that has always been the caveat for multi-party representative democracies. Japan, by her very nature, was never a pure democracy, but was a Constitutional Monarchy, power was centered on the Emperor. The limitation of the Emperor's powers was seen after the end of WWII.

I believe there needs to be orientation towards the old system.

If there are elections, there will be sub-parties. Even in CPC, there are a lot.
I think it's more rational for me to dream of a one party plus legal system than your dream, BRO

 

[Aepsilons]

If there are elections, there will be sub-parties. Even in CPC, there are a lot.

You mean subcommittees ? Yes, we have those also in Japan.