How do people view Islamic organizations in Pakistan from the outside

[punit]

What al-Huda and similar organizations are doing is starting the process of radicalization as described below very clearly:





I cannot say it better than what has already been said:

"The organization in question isn't preaching violence or extremism , no , the trouble arises with them asking the women ( who are themselves choosing to allow them into their house of course ) to reject the common societal and cultural practices and the modernity and all things Western have always been forbidden for pious Muslims . Some time later , the same women will by their own choice again will cut off all ties with the world , I have seen it happen here quite too often . Radicalization , that is what it is . They are building up the opinion towards one step further - extremism so if later the TTP or other extremist groups comes in some other form , the mindset will be already there for them to exploit."

in short they are preparing the sheep for upcoming slaughter.

 

[Dubious]

In a nation that staunchly claims to be the "Castle of Islam"

Who claims this?

After all, how can anyone dare to question the Quran and Sunnah?

There is questioning then there is challenging then there is the lowest form altering or deriving meaning that suits one's needs (another state of altering but this is done while referring to a verse out of context and hence justifying Quran ordered it)

social leaders of their respective circles inviting all the others very softly and gently to their way of life based on the Quran and Sunnah.

I dont see you objecting to people doing the same when promoting women sexuality as an art in an art gallery...you know where you waltz in and awe at naked xxx rated molds and pictures ...isnt that creating a soft invite to accepting their view point? What about petitions requesting approval of gay marriages another soft approach to accepting their POV...see how it can swing in any direction...

One by one, families conform.

Not all change...we have hummus eaters like you everywhere

The death of any diversity of thought, and an endless pressure to conform socially.

Well the death can also come from being a zombie and a slave of media same can be said about slaves of fashion where if it is not the trend it doesnt get recognized or is ridiculed

This is the step from where intolerance is not too far.

Yet intolerance towards not wanting to accept or not recognizing : gay marriage, xxx art and stuff lie that is termed something else...

Except when it becomes impossible to repeal the blasphemy law or the hudood ordnance, because it would be unislamic to do so. Now society is in a mental straitjacket.

It can be refuted infact it should be amended but who has tried...Name 1 politician or activist who is Muslim with even the basic knowledge of Islam who has tried? Lets start with leading parties PLMN, PPP, MQM, TUQ, PTI...which one tried? Heck they didnt even try to reform the local juridical system and bail the country out of corruption issues coz fixing the juridical system means less money to pocket...Fixing the laws means more will apply to them and more often than naught they will fall in jail!

Next level, the daily people....which one tried? So far no one has been able to dig up the Shariah, history of it and how the real laws are and slap it in the faces of these Mullahs ....not one has even tried and you already surrender to defeat? Man oh man!

But we have seen above how a narrow interpreation of Islam is now the accpeted mainstream, and no other thought process independent is possible without being castigated for it. Now the personal choices of the few can be imposed on everyone with the force of mainstream society.


Who can dare eat in public in Ramadan now? Just a perosnal issue? Nope. You must conform to sciety's will as defined by these people. Or get lashes. You have a "free choice", you see.

Same can be said of the West...who can disagree with Holocaust? What about openly saying that they dont like gays without being termed homophobic? What about openly talking against femininity? you will be termed chauvinist (best case scenario) or something far worse? Whose views (even scientist are not spared) about drug and alcohol is anyone listening to? Even as far as health is deteriorating you are not allowed to challenge the norms!!

The problem now is that the personal issue has become a societal norm against which any dissent is punished.
The trap has sprung.

Gays share the same problem personal issue of Holocaust has spread over the whole of Europe no one is even allowed to deny it (yet many are not even taught or are ignorant of the Khmer genocides or any Apartheid by KKK ..Saying the name Hitler entitles you to some form of categorization!

Now those who have any remaining vestiges of logical thought are helplessly paralyzed to protest or do anything. After all, "I can only support them.

Well, that is not really true...it is the habit of hypocrisy to not utter a word where it is needed...just like in Europe they are forced to accept any radical change because of fear of being labelled radical! I mean in Pakistan one should first snap people to not be social conscious! That is a problem I have voiced out too often! Everyone is fearful of what the other might think of them and hence behave in a way that is "accepted" by the other...something is happening in Europe and hence Gay/ Lesbian rights are now a norm...Even if you can get skin cancer nude beaches are ok...even if you can get sun burned its ok to show skin...even if you can get STD red light districts are actually a tourist attraction...should I go on?

Difficult times lead to people turning to religion even more, naturally. Blame all the trouble on evil doeers and ask the people to join them

This is you enforcing your thought on us through mockery! Do you do that to a devoted Christian? Or an orthodox Jew? How about a Buddhist monk?

So far, so good, right?

The trap is now ready.

This is the step from where intolerance is not too far.

Fossilization of the mind is not too far now.

The trap has sprung.

Now the noose is tightening cutting off the oxygen to the brain slowly and surely.

Now all the lemmings are eager to jump over the cliff into promised rapture. Willingly.

 

[Zarvan]

Zarvan you do not have the capacity to understand the Turkish experience. Many people like yourself did a lot to destabilize Turkish state by trying to incite people into Jihad and such for personal gain. Turks distrust role of religion in politics and emphasize the personal side of religious practice. They have a valid perspective in light of their experience. You can not impose Pakistani views on Turks. Our experience is different, their's is different.

When one talks about religion and politics, Pakistan's experience shows that sectarianism is always in the mix and produces devastation.

I know you are going to repeat things like what JI etc... say and I know that you are going to talk about 90% being similar etc... But really sometimes it is best to not say anything. You are responsible for yourself, not Pakistanis or Turks. Based solely on your very aggressive and abrasive behavior, you seem to be in great need of improvement in Tazkia-e-Nafs and Ikhlaq. Your combative style drives people away from your views. You are a disservice to political Islam - no wonder Islamists like yourself are not trusted with power whenever people are given a choice.

You are a salafist type person, otherwise I would suggest that you visit and spend time with a Sufi sheikh to improve yourself.

I was a sufi Sir I came to Islam after visiting a shrine but I do my research and when I did research and when I used to ask sufis to justify their practices in light of Quran and Sunnah they used to go round and round and never come to point and answer me but when ever I asked a so called Salafi he immediately used to come up with ayat from Quran or Hadees or way of Sahaba and when I used to also check it it used to get confirmed and I know Turk history sir and now they are returning back to Islam it is a little slow process but the movement has started

 

[VCheng]

in short they are preparing the sheep for upcoming slaughter.

65,000 already slaughtered, and the process has only just begun.

That post of mine was specifically addressed to Secur. I have not read your reply, nor do I intend to do so, since you are master of obfuscation.

My post demanding that you quote me in context has been ignored. Typical teflon attitude.

My post was very clear and point by point, but I respect your choice not to respond.

 

[VCheng]

This is you enforcing your thought on us through mockery! Do you do that to a devoted Christian? Or an orthodox Jew? How about a Buddhist monk?

When was the last time any one of those blew themselves up and kill scores of other innocents?

 

[Dubious]

When was the last time any one of those blew themselves up and kill scores of other innocents?

Are you kidding me? Should I mention Buddhist? Israel (not orthodox but still I meant to ask if you ask every other religion)?

 

[VCheng]

Are you kidding me? Should I mention Buddhist? Israel (not orthodox but still I meant to ask if you ask every other religion)?

When did a Buddhist blow up? Self-immolation is different.

 

[Dubious]

When did a Buddhist blow up? Self-immolation is different.

so you are only worried about being blown up rather than any other form of dying say slaughtering or genocides (Hitler, Khmer Rougue, Burma, American red Indians, Aborigines, Moriori, Chechnya, Bosnia, Croatian Roma, Hmong of Laos, Rwanda, Guatemala , The Inquisition) Of course turn a blind eye at each coz media wants to highlight Muslims

I thought the focus was on harming innocents not how it is done

 

[RAMPAGE]

Kudos to Ma'am Farhat Hashmi for making people like VCheng shit their pants !!!

She's indeed a very classy woman.

 

[VCheng]

so you are only worried about being blown up rather than any other form of dying say slaughtering or genocides (Hitler, Khmer Rougue, Burma, American red Indians, Aborigines, Moriori, Chechnya, Bosnia, Croatian Roma, Hmong of Laos, Rwanda, Guatemala , The Inquisition) Of course turn a blind eye at each coz media wants to highlight Muslims :agree

I thought the focus was on harming innocents not how it is done

I thought the focus was on "Islamic organizations in Pakistan" as it says in the title, and the related effects. Why are you going on a world tour?

Kudos to Ma'am Farhat Hashmi for making people like VCheng shit their pants !!!

She's indeed a very classy woman.

She may be classy, but your comment is not. Anyway, what she is doing is setting the stage for easy radicalization. I am immune to that, but wider society in Pakistan is definitely not, and paying the price.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

I was a sufi Sir I came to Islam after visiting a shrine but I do my research and when I did research and when I used to ask sufis to justify their practices in light of Quran and Sunnah they used to go round and round and never come to point and answer me but when ever I asked a so called Salafi he immediately used to come up with ayat from Quran or Hadees or way of Sahaba and when I used to also check it it used to get confirmed and I know Turk history sir and now they are returning back to Islam it is a little slow process but the movement has started

Sir you don't have to believe in fake pirs (personally i hate them) but your alternative is even worst. Better to be pir mureed then terrorist sympathizer...

 

[JonAsad]

I was a sufi Sir I came to Islam after visiting a shrine but I do my research and when I did research and when I used to ask sufis to justify their practices in light of Quran and Sunnah they used to go round and round and never come to point and answer me but when ever I asked a so called Salafi he immediately used to come up with ayat from Quran or Hadees or way of Sahaba and when I used to also check it it used to get confirmed and I know Turk history sir and now they are returning back to Islam it is a little slow process but the movement has started

By so called Salafi you mean Sunnis right?-
How about asking the so called Salafi the right questions for a change?-
Like killing of innocent women and children in the name of Islam?- The definition of a Muslim?- A Murtad?- The ramifications of calling some one Murtad?- Killing of a fellow Muslim based on sects?-
Never have we seen such barbarism and atrocities committed by any Muslim during the era of Holy Prophet-
Yet now we come up with Quran and Hadees to support such killings- Believing in the core basics of Islam like Allah as one God and Muhammad SAW as his messenger is not enough- we kill because of difference in opinions- Ask the so called Salafi why does "Killing of 1 human being is like killing of whole humanity" does not apply when we kill Shias- or Non Muslims because of religion-- Why does the teaching of Holy Prophet PBUH about "not harming innocent women children or old" does not hold any value when we kill fellow Kalimah reciters because they dont follow our ways--

i am sure a so called Salafi will go round and round avoiding the point aswell-

 

[RAMPAGE]

She may be classy, but your comment is not. Anyway, what she is doing is setting the stage for easy radicalization. I am immune to that, but wider society in Pakistan is definitely not, and paying the price.

I certainly don't like to waste my words on people like you but now that you've quoted me, I'll make an exception just this once.

The purpose of Al-Huda is to train our women according to our Islamic values because they play the most important role in the shaping of a community. many Pakistani members here grew up learning their religion and its values from their Mothers/Grandmothers and based on those values they built their sense of right and wrong. Al-Huda aims to uphold that tradition, nothing more.

It does not plan to indulge in politics.

@Chak Bamu

Sir you maybe a secularist but you're certainly a gentleman and I respect you for that.

 

[Jaanbaz]

<MOD EDIT> I have created this thread to move posts certain off-topic posts from: Operation Zarb-e-Azb | Updates, News & Discussions. Rather than delete these posts of questionable value (and be called an unfair / biased Moderator), I have put them up here. A concerned member takes a dim view of organizations specifically Al-Huda.

Here forum-members can discuss relevant issues freely without disturbing an established thread for NWA Operation. <MOD EDIT>




You may be right, but Sir, I bet you would have said the same thing last year if I had said there will be killings of Colonels and a takeover of the biggest airport in the country. Too far fetched? Not at all.

As an example, what do you think is the influence of organizations that are targeting their efforts at brainwashing educated middle class women, like Al-Huda?

Its classic brainwashing and softening the enemy population. You do realise Taliban aren't the only ones that plan to turn Pakistan into their version of ''Islamic'' heaven. There are many others, Dr Israr marhoom's organisation, Jamaate Islami, Jamaat ut Dawa etc all have similar goals but different ways of advancing their goals. One thing is that all of these organisation find a common goal of toppling Pakistan's current system, Police, Army, Judiciary, civil society. They believe these ''Liberals'' are agents of West. democracy is western invention.

When Taliban and their like minded do march into major cities of Pakistan, they hope that by then majority of population would have been converted to their extreme version of Islam. This will limit the resistance they might face from local residents.

 

[VCheng]

Its classic brainwashing and softening the enemy population. You do realise Taliban aren't the only ones that plan to turn Pakistan into their version of ''Islamic'' heaven. There are many others, Dr Israr marhoom's organisation, Jamaate Islami, Jamaat ut Dawa etc all have similar goals but different ways of advancing their goals. One thing is that all of these organisation find a common goal of toppling Pakistan's current system, Police, Army, Judiciary, civil society. They believe these ''Liberals'' are agents of West. democracy is western invention.

When Taliban and their like minded do march into major cities of Pakistan, they hope that by then majority of population would have been converted to their extreme version of Islam. This will limit the resistance they might face from local residents.

While our forces are fighting at great risk in FATA, the very foundations of civil society are being steadily eroded by all these organizations under the garb of "train(ing) our women according to our Islamic values because they play the most important role in the shaping of a community".

It is only a matter of time before the balance tilts in their favor irreversibly. Already, they are approaching a critical mass.

Please note that I am not saying it is right or wrong. It is up to society to determine its direction. I am just pointing out that we should be ready for this transformation because it is not too far away.