How could India and Pakistan improve their relationship?

[Patrician]

They do not have the scar of partition to go along, and the religious differences are non existent.

May be their issues were different. But their relationships were worse than ours. I can tell you that as a fact. I have read a lot about it.

The british, frence, germans, italians, spanish etc. have fought like hell for decades.

You just have to go back a few centuries (figuratively ) to see for yourself.

 

[Patrician]

LOL... My friend if you leave it to the government you will never have any reasonable peace. I don't understand this logic. Hearts and minds starts with the populace, not the masters in their palaces.

Let me explain.

First the govt. will interact and try to remove the trust deficit.

Then the govt will give impetus to trade/industry/media etc. to go across the border and explore uncharted territories.

When these things like trade/industry/media etc. start touching the lives of people, they will of course react in a positive way.

So you see, this will have to trickle down from the top. It will have to be a top bottom approach and not a bottom top one.

Quite simply, my friend, it's the rulers who shape public opinion and not the other way round although many of us live under the illusion that it is otherwise but actually it is not.

 

[NWO]

Economy. It begins with economics. We MUST have easier access to each other markets before anything else. Forget diplomatic negotiations or cultural exchanges, we need economic freedom before anything else.

 

[Coltsfan]

Two World Wars ! They have more casualties to their heads than all Indo-Pak Skirmishes/wars, the victims of terroism(both nations), the victims of Air crashes(both countries) and the 1962 war combined !
They got over that bloodshed, in my opinion being responsible for millions of deaths of the other party creates greater feelings of hatred and mistrust than religious differences and partition.

May be their issues were different. But their relationships were worse than ours. I can tell you that as a fact. I have read a lot about it.

The british, frence, germans, italians, spanish etc. have fought like hell for decades.

You just have to go back a few centuries (figuratively ) to see for yourself.

Valid points,

so they have had the great wars and have resolved their differences. However, to say that religion does not play a role is an understatement.

We saw what happens when religion gets involved in a political conflict in Bosnia and Serbia.....

In addition, India and Pakistan have the issue of Kashmir hanging over our heads.........

 

[Desi Sher]

Well I have an Easy way...... Close all the media in Our country Who First create a Smoke out of Nothing and Cry Fire fire.....

 

[Patrician]

Economy. It begins with economics. We MUST have easier access to each other markets before anything else. Forget diplomatic negotiations or cultural exchanges, we need economic freedom before anything else.

That could be a big boost actually. When both of our countries know that the stakes involved in a damaged relationship are way too high for anyone's comfort, sanity will have to prevail. But again, it will have to begin slowly and slowly.

The whole process may even take one to two decades for complete normalization.

 

[GentlemanObserver]

Let me explain.

First the govt. will interact and try to remove the trust deficit.

Then the govt will give impetus to trade/industry/media etc. to go across the border and explore uncharted territories.

When these things like trade/industry/media etc. start touching the lives of people, they will of course react in a positive way.

So you see, this will have to trickle down from the top. It will have to be a top bottom approach and not a bottom top one.

Quite simply, my friend, it's the rulers who shape public opinion and not the other way round although many of us live under the illusion that it is otherwise but actually it is not.

Only one problem with that hypothesis:

Start small, start with the grass roots. Government ke sauch ko ap or me badal nahi saktey. Magar awam ke inder change to la skathey hain na.

 

[Patrician]

Well I have an Easy way...... Close all the media in Our country Who First create a Smoke out of Nothing and Cry Fire fire.....

I'd rather have it influenced in a positive way.

 

[Patrician]

Valid points,

so they have had the great wars and have resolved their differences. However, to say that religion does not play a role is an understatement.

We saw what happens when religion gets involved in a political conflict in Bosnia and Serbia.....

In addition, India and Pakistan have the issue of Kashmir hanging over our heads.........

You know what? I'm actually not very worried about kashmir. Guess why?

Yaar kashmir will get resolved. All we need is a few years ,may be 2-3 of them, of peace and stability. It happened earlier (between mushy and MMS), it could happen again.

What I'm actually worried about is the presence of many power centres in islamabad.

See in India, we have the GoI and only the GoI who makes all the decisions.

In pakistan, we have the army and the politicians who both have their own share of the decision making process.

This is, I believe, what puzzles MMS even today. That guy is a sage, but he doesn't know whom to talk to. Once that becomes clear and like I said, peace and stability for 2-3 years, you will definitely see some concrete action on kashmir.

 

[Coltsfan]

You know what? I'm actually not very worried about kashmir. Guess why?

Yaar kashmir will get resolved. All we need is a few years ,may be 2-3 of them, of peace and stability. It happened earlier (between mushy and MMS), it could happen again.

What I'm actually worried about is the presence of many power centres in islamabad.

See in India, we have the GoI and only the GoI who makes all the decisions.

In pakistan, we have the army and the politicians who both have their own share of the decision making process.

This is, I believe, what puzzles MMS even today. That guy is a sage, but he doesn't know whom to talk to. Once that becomes clear and like I said, peace and stability for 2-3 years, you will definitely see some concrete action on kashmir.

Hate to be so cynical..... but I don't foresee Kashmir resolution anytime soon.

The only possible way is to keep controversial issues to a side and increase trade and commerce b/w the two countries.

 

[Patrician]

Hate to be so cynical..... but I don't foresee Kashmir resolution anytime soon.

The only possible way is to keep controversial issues to a side and increase trade and commerce b/w the two countries.

And that would be good start. Like I said earlier, we don't have to hush things up. That way, we'll only be bungling up our job.

In fact, it is the media which must take a lion's share of the blame for bungling up Indo-Pak relations.

First they build sooooooooooooooooo much hype even when the clerks in our foreign offices even think of calling each other, then they shout about the failure of talks from rooftops.

It makes the job of the govt. all the more difficult.

Media must be reigned in. They can't be allowed to dictate our foreign policy.

Just take this recent fixing scandal for example. It's sooooooooo disgusting and loathsome to see them running the same story for 24 hours all channels at the same time.

I do not understand, why can't they just report it sanely or in a subtler way.

They always act like it's their god given right and duty to shape up public opinion.

 

[Prometheus]

Trade more and more............................profit and stability will pave the way for best friends

 

[SpArK]

Trade more and more............................profit and stability will pave the way for best friends

With more than 15 billion annual trade nothing has changed between India and China, even it got worse..

So trade is a non factor.

 

[Patrician]

With more than 15 billion annual trade nothing has changed between India and China, even it got worse..

So trade is a non factor.

Do you really believe these recent media-created spats?

Moreover, having some trade is better than having no trade.

I'd say, at least we now have some stake in the other party's stability as do they in ours.

As far as trade disparity is concerned. I agree, India must take it up with China.

Cmon yaar, chinese are not that silly. Do you seriously expect a country which in 30 years achieved sooooo much to be such a fool as to mistake that India cannot defend itself? We must never let our guard down but we must act to diffuse tensions.

 

[SpArK]

Do you really believe these recent media-created spats?

Its not about beleif, Its about the ground reality.

Moreover, having some trade is better than having no trade.

There is trade .. there is nothing like no trade between the 2 countries.Its about 2.5 Billion plus.. But i acknowledge it has to be and should be more.

I'd say, at least we now have some stake in the other party's stability.

As far as trade disparity is concerned. I agree, India must take it up with China.

Cmon yaar, chinese are not that silly. Do you seriously expect a country which in 30 years achieved sooooo much to be such a fool as to mistake that India cannot defend itself? We must never let our guard down but we must act to diffuse tensions.

I was pointing that trade is a non factor in improving relationships.

A common man is not aware o the trade statistics and the news of surplus and deficits doesn't create any attention to him. Maybe its good for traders but never a factor of changing mindsets of the majority.