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How China is desperate to Complete Pakistan’s Nuclear triad

Sarjen29

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How China is desperate to Complete Pakistan’s Nuclear triad
Published August 4, 2015 | By admin
SOURCE: SUDESH CHARI / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG

11-china-submarine-indian-ocean.jpg


“You can die crossing the street,” he observed, “or you could die in a nuclear war. You’ve got to die some day anyway.” Pakistan’s ambassador to the UN in Geneva, Munir Akram, reiterated Pakistan’s refusal of a no-first-use policy amid 2001-2002 India-Pakistan standoff after an attack on Indian Parliament, then India’s Defence Minister George Fernandes responded by saying “India can survive a nuclear attack, but Pakistan cannot”.

For long Pakistan believed that its aggressive nuclear posturing will deter any Indian response in event of any terror-related incidents but all that changed due to two main development in India, which many in India believed gave India enough reasons to call Pakistan’s nuclear bluff.

India’s Mythical Cold start doctrine shattered Pakistani military planners confidence that its nuclear weapons will deter India from every crossing Line of Control or the international border. Popular belief in Pakistani military after Kargil war and after the 2001-2002 standoff was that Nuclear Arsenal of Pakistan had successfully deterred India from carrying out surgical strikes in Pakistan against terror infrastructure.

India’s Cold start doctrine gave India some level of advantage since it allowed Indian armies Strike corps to assemble on shortest notice period and gave the ability to launch an attack before International pressure could build up on India.

In response to India’s Cold start doctrine, Pakistan came up with the development of two key projects to counter or stop Indian armies strike corps from bulldozing its way into Pakistan. Pakistan developed battlefield Ballistic missile Nasr which when armed with a tactical nuclear weapon could be used to attack invading force even when Indian Army is well inside Pakistani territories.

India on other hand refused to start tactical nuclear weapons race with Pakistan which India could have countered by allowing invading Strike corps to move with tactical nuclear weapons, Indian military planners stuck to strategic nuclear weapons and responded by saying that No Matter what will be size of nukes or where our forces are attacked our response will be massive, this left an element of doubt on Pakistani military planners on effectiveness on use of Tactical nukes which might deny them use of strategic nuclear weapons on Indian territories.

In 2012, Pakistan established new Naval Strategic Force Command, described by the military as the custodian of the country’s nuclear second strike capability which will strengthen Pakistan’s policy of credible minimum deterrence and ensure regional stability which they believed shifted due to launch of India’s first nuclear INS Arihant ballistic missile submarine .

Shortly after visit of Chinese president Xi visit from Pakistani, there was media buzz about talks which was underway with china in supply of eight Conventional diesel submarines in a 5$ billion deal that could more than double Pakistan’s submarine fleet size.

Submarine in question which have been offered are Yuan-Class Diesel submarines in line Kilo submarine currently operated by Indian Navy, But submarine which Pakistanis are eyeing to complete their low-cost Nuclear triad against rise of expensive Nuclear submarine program initiated by India in the region is to procure much larger Qing-Class submarines which reportedly are equipped with vertical launch system which will allow Pakistan to deploy permanent sea-based deterrent equipped with plutonium-based warheads fitted into Submarine launched variant of Babur cruise missiles which can strike targets 700-1000km.

AIP-equipped conventional submarines with Cruise missiles armed with Tactical nukes will provide Cheaper second strike platform for Pakistani military against rising Nuclear submarine force which India is developing which is both Capital intensive and involves technically complex technology which Pakistan cannot match.
 
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We are selling them AIP submarines, we have no control over what warheads (conventional/nuclear) they choose to put in their submarine-launched cruise missiles.

If they want to use it as a second-strike option (which appears to be the case) that is their own business.

There is also no proof that China helped Pakistan gain nuclear weapons in the first place.
 
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How China is desperate to Complete Pakistan’s Nuclear triad

India on other hand refused to start tactical nuclear weapons race with Pakistan which India could have countered by allowing invading Strike corps to move with tactical nuclear weapons, Indian military planners stuck to strategic nuclear weapons and responded by saying that No Matter what will be size of nukes or where our forces are attacked our response will be massive, this left an element of doubt on Pakistani military planners on effectiveness on use of Tactical nukes which might deny them use of strategic nuclear weapons on Indian territories..

Do people in the Indian media actually make money by selling this gossip / tabloid shiit similar to satire magazines they sell in grocery store saying "Angelina Jolie is pregnant again" ??? For the love of God, stop crying. Its embarrassing, India is a big country and with a big military, start acting like a bigger power instead of throwing fits over what Pakistan does. Heck, I might see an article tomorrow on Pakistan's 9MM Pistol and how "DANGEROUS" it could be to the Indian "cold feet" doctrine :omghaha: !!!

You guys write ALL this jingoistic crap....how come I've not seen ONE Indian leader (from SUCH a peace loving nation called India), EVER offering the Chinese and the Pakistanis that hey guys, let's not fight and help our 2.6 billion people by arranging an EU type of a region with free trade and no wars. That would help India more than ANYONE else.

No war, only trade. Any issues, we jointly handle it such as terrorism, etc. But no, they would rather cry over a country's defense acquisitions who is 1/4 the size of India. But the word "peace" will never come out!!!
 
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AIP-equipped conventional submarines with Cruise missiles armed with Tactical nukes will provide Cheaper second strike platform for Pakistani military against rising Nuclear submarine force which India is developing which is both Capital intensive and involves technically complex technology which Pakistan cannot match.

Spare us from the BS of Imported Technology...At least our submarines don't explode themselves...!
Always High on praising themselves.. an indicator of experiencing complexity...!
 
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We are selling them AIP submarines, we have no control over what warheads (conventional/nuclear) they choose to put in their submarine-launched cruise missiles.

If they want to use it as a second-strike option (which appears to be the case) that is their own business.

There is also no proof that China helped Pakistan gain nuclear weapons in the first place.

A) the Chinese president accepted and said China supplied magnetic Rings to PAK when US showed them Pictures.
this news is blocked in china like google is blocked.

B) Chinese made 1st gen nuclear made Design is found in Libya though PAK ( AK khan) , only when US presented the proof.

Apparently it was this event that sealed the deal:

Exclusive: Chinese submarine lurked past Indian waters, docked in Karachi - India Today

After that, both Pakistan and Thailand ordered our submarines. We demonstrated the range and the stealth of our AIP submarines very easily, by docking it in Karachi harbor, right under India's nose.

:P
 
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We are selling them AIP submarines, we have no control over what warheads (conventional/nuclear) they choose to put in their submarine-launched cruise missiles.

If they want to use it as a second-strike option (which appears to be the case) that is their own business.

There is also no proof that China helped Pakistan gain nuclear weapons in the first place.
It did for delivery systems.
it went as far as violating MTCR to do so.
 
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Its embarrassing, India is a big country and with a big military, start acting like a bigger power instead of throwing fits over what Pakistan does. Heck, I might see an article tomorrow on Pakistan's 9MM Pistol and how "DANGEROUS" it could be to the Indian "cold feet" doctrine :omghaha: !!!

Pakistan has the fastest growing Nuclear Arms program in the whole world. After facilitating clandestine Nuclear Proliferation, China is at it again by enabling the third arm of Pakistan's Nuclear triad.

It doesn't take a genius to figure who it is all targeted against. And you ask why India should be bothered? Are you even for real?

Besides, when has the 'small' size of Pakistan ever stopped it from needling India? Do 1965 war or Kargil or even the terrorist attacks originating from established to be originating from Pakistan ring any bell?

Or are you one of those who think Mumbai 26/11 was an inside job just to malign the saintly Pakistan's image internationally?

You guys write ALL this jingoistic crap....how come I've not seen ONE Indian leader (from SUCH a peace loving nation called India), EVER offering the Chinese and the Pakistanis that hey guys, let's not fight and help our 2.6 billion people by arranging an EU type of a region with free trade and no wars. That would help India more than ANYONE else.

Which Indian leader has ever shied away from talks and free trade with Pakistan? Even the so-called "most jingoistic" PM Modi invited your PM for his swearing-in ceremony along with all regional leaders. But it is not the talks and trade that Pakistan is really interested in, but "Kashmir". Obviously, the talks are bound to fail.

Now you can't turn around and say India is responsible for all the failed talks! Unless you implicitly expected India to oblige Pakistan by offering Kashmir on a platter as part of the talks.

BTW, China is India's biggest trading partner. So much so that China runs a huge surplus against India. Now that is trade despite all the obvious animosity between the 2 neighbors.

No war, only trade. Any issues, we jointly handle it such as terrorism, etc. But no, they would rather cry over a country's defense acquisitions who is 1/4 the size of India. But the word "peace" will never come out!!!

Do you even know who is holding back from facilitating the bilateral trade?
Hint: India granted Pakistan MFN status long ago while Pakistan is yet to reciprocate it.

FYI MFN status is one of the 'most basic' provision that a WTO member country is expected to extend to another!

Humbly put, 'talking about trade with India and not war' is rich coming from a Pakistani!
 
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After facilitating clandestine Nuclear Proliferation, China is at it again by enabling the third arm of Pakistan's Nuclear triad.

So you think China proliferated nuclear weapons to Pakistan?

So why are we classified as one of the only 5 recognized nuclear powers by the Non-Proliferation Treaty, the same 5 nations that are the permanent members of the UN security council?

While India is not recognized as a nuclear weapons state by the NPT, same as North Korea? :P

Is the world just unfair or what? You say we proliferated nukes to Pakistan... yet we get to sit at the high table of the NPT, NSG and the UNSC, while India is begging us to be let in?

PM Narendra Modi asks China to back India's bid for UNSC seat, NSG membership - Economic Times
 
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So you think China proliferated nuclear weapons to Pakistan?

Are you saying that China didn't?

You only have to google the terms China, nuclear proliferation and Pakistan!

There! China not only proliferated weapons to Pakistan, but also undertook to test weapons on their behalf!

Why China Helped Countries Like Pakistan, North Korea Build Nuclear Bombs - US News

To be fair to China, even USA looked the other way when Pakistanis smuggling the 'components' right under their nose! Its a different matter that the same US had to spend a fortune and her political capital to mitigate the damage further caused by Pakistan's own proliferation ring (Iran, North Korea, Libya)! As they say, Karma is b*tch.

So why are we classified as one of the only 5 recognized nuclear powers by the Non-Proliferation Treaty, the same 5 nations that are the permanent members of the UN security council?

Classic case of Sheriff looting the town he was appointed to guard! What is your point?

Is the world just unfair or what? You say we proliferated nukes to Pakistan... yet we get to sit at the high table of the NPT, NSG and the UNSC, while India is begging us to be let in?

PM Narendra Modi asks China to back India's bid for UNSC seat, NSG membership - Economic Times

I thought the discussion was about how China is indulged in unabashed proliferation - not who is high and mighty!
 
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I thought the discussion was about how China is indulged in unabashed proliferation - not who is high and mighty!

We don't need to discuss who is "high and mighty" since the answer is obvious. :wave:

China is only a developing country:
China is still a developing country: Hu Jintao - Xinhua News

Whereas India is a superpower:
India to become superpower by 2012: Kalam - Economic Times

We are nowhere close to being a superpower (or even a developed country) so you're obviously way ahead of us.

Are you saying that China didn't?

You only have to google the terms China, nuclear proliferation and Pakistan!

There! China not only proliferated weapons to Pakistan, but also undertook to test weapons on their behalf!

Why China Helped Countries Like Pakistan, North Korea Build Nuclear Bombs - US News

When I opened the link, the first line said: "A new book alleges..."

So that's not proof either. :P

Classic case of Sheriff looting the town he was appointed to guard! What is your point?

We were the last country (along with France) to join the NPT as one of the 5 officially recognized nuclear powers in the world.

And the date was 1992. So apparently they knew about all those allegations, but still made us one of the only 5 recognized nuclear powers anyway?

Is it a "conspiracy"?
 
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We don't need to discuss who is "high and mighty" since the answer is obvious.

China is only a developing country: China is still a developing country: Hu Jintao - Xinhua News

Whereas India is a superpower: India to become superpower by 2012: Kalam - Economic Times

We are nowhere close to being a superpower (or even a developed country) so you're obviously way ahead of us.

Like I said yesterday, if I were you, I would seek help.

When I opened the link, the first line said: "A new book alleges..."

So that's not proof either. :P

Did you even read about the author of the book before yapping?

Like I said, you only need to use google (or whatever you guys are allowed to use in your country) for your country's glorious record in propping up pariah states through clandestine activities. But then, I know you know that already.

As they say, you can't wake up somebody who is only pretending to be asleep.

We were the last country (along with France) to join the NPT as one of the 5 officially recognized nuclear powers in the world.

And the date was 1992. So apparently they knew about all those allegations, but still gave us a seat at the high table anyway?

Is it a "conspiracy"?

Only if fairness was the criteria for a seat at the high table, there wouldn't even be a P5. Forget NPT.
 
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