Horrible, horrible atrocities by insurgents in Syria :(

[susano]

Oh, I am well aware that the USA has sent some weapons to Syria, that was not the point I was making.
I can see now how someone (especially not the guy I was replying to) could have got it confused. So allow me to clarify.

susano replied to this:

with this:

Now as we know there are many Al Quida like elements (terrorists) in the Syrian rebellion fighting against Assad. However there are also genuine and legitimate FSA elements, mostly those who defected from the Syrian army.

now as you can see (from your article):

"Although the Obama administration signaled months ago that it would increase aid to Syrian rebels, the efforts have lagged because of the logistical challenges involved in delivering equipment in a war zone and officials’ fears that any assistance could wind up in the hands of jihadists. "

If I may...

I live in the US and pay close attention to this government. By the time that overt involvement is admitted you can be guaranteed that the covert involvement has been going on for a long time. We are, after all, talking about the CIA whose black budgets are not even subject to any kind of oversight. The CIA, along with it's friendly front, the State Dept, interfere with and overthrow foreign governments for a living. They don't make formal announcements about their criminal activities.

 

[susano]

I haven't seen evidence that most of the USA arms reach Al-Qaeda, but to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if it did (besides my ignorance on the matter does not prove it is not so anyway). I think this is the main reason the west and the USA are limiting the weapons supplied to small arms so far.

Unfortunately, because I'm new, I cannot yet post links, but you must take into account covert arms trafficking. Benghazi was one place from which arms were being funneled to Syria.

 

[susano]

What about that bastard assad who used serine gas to slaughter 1000s. This low life & his ****** clan is ruling for 40 years and only barely alive just because a revitalized Russia just happen to have serious interest in Syria which that Assad scum obliged to protect.

There is ZERO evidence that the Syrian government used chemical weapons. On the contrary, in fact, the last time they were used the UN said it was the 'rebels' and the sarin was determined to be homemade, delivered on homemade rockets. Syrian forces not only don't need to resort to such idiocy because they have a big conventional military, but to use such things, just 10 miles from the hotel where UN inspectors were staying would be retarded. Everyone knows that using CW only means the the western powers, be they NATO or just the USA, now has their excuse to bomb the sh*t out Syria. Do you honestly believe that Assad is so stupid as to invite the US to attack? The US has used "false flags" (an act by one party and blamed on another party) to start many wars, including in Vietnam.

 

[kalu_miah]

If I may...

I live in the US and pay close attention to this government. By the time that overt involvement is admitted you can be guaranteed that the covert involvement has been going on for a long time. We are, after all, talking about the CIA whose black budgets are not even subject to any kind of oversight. The CIA, along with it's friendly front, the State Dept, interfere with and overthrow foreign governments for a living. They don't make formal announcements about their criminal activities.

With all due respect, according to my personal opinion, I don't think you understand the regional dynamics very well, like the people in your state department. I will try to give you a picture from my perspective.

What Neocons did was stupid, but it has become irrelevant now. There are people here from the region, it would help if you would ask them questions. One big problem is that we have now two sides and everyone is engaged in propaganda, so you have to filter that out to make sense of what people are saying.

Israel and many Sunni Arab and most Muslim countries are on US/NATO side, whereas Shia Iran and Pakistan are on opposing SCO(China+Russia) side. To make matters more complicated, US/EU is still biggest market for Chinese export. So the US is essentially financing its own defeat.

Russia has a base in Tartus, Syria is dependent on both Iran and Russia. Iran is dependent on both Russia and China. Russia and China are partners in SCO. This SCO group does not want to loose their lone outpost and base on Mediterranean.

Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld and co. promoted the Al Qaeda brand to run their "war on terror" (GWOT), now its coming back to bite the US. After two meaningless wars, when the US action was really needed here, Obama takes his hands off and hesitates to get involved, which allows Sunni extremists to stream in and become dominant. I opposed both wars and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq, but in this Syrian situation Obama declared at the initial stages that "Assad must go", but he did not follow up his words with action.

The biggest confusion comes from the fact that these Sunni extremists are a confused and clueless lot, they are not controlled by any central authority and they are easily manipulated by people with agenda and thus become foot soldiers. The Shia extremists on the other hand are focused and organized and they seldom have disorganized non-state actors. Assad and Hezbollah, they are the state in their respective country, even though Hezbollah is a terrorist group and Assad is the terrorist ruler. They coordinate closely with Tehran and Tehran coordinates closely with SCO capitals. By taking a hands off approach, the US/NATO/Israel have lost a golden opportunity to create credibility and good will in Sunni Arab and Muslim countries, much of which was lost due to two meaningless intervention in Afghanistan and Iraq, where the US essentially removed dominant Sunni's and installed Shia's in Iraq and Iran friendly Northern Alliance nominally headed by Karzai in Afghanistan. Afghanistan is now firmly in SCO hand as Iran and Pakistan are both close to China. All the US did in Afghanistan was waste blood and treasure for no good reason and in Iraq, the US actually hurt its own interest, by helping Iran and SCO. Some people still question whether Iraq's Shia will choose the US over Iran. Iraq will just put on a show of being a US ally to get economic and strategic benefits, while their real behind the scenes ally will always be Iran and SCO.

So now the Shia side and people backing them are using the Al Qaeda brand to label all of us who support Syrian rebels as either terrorists or terrorist supporters, another classic example of blow back, this time in the form of propaganda brand. I am a Sunni Muslim, so obviously I support the Syrian rebels and oppose Shia supremacy, so now one Iranian is repeatedly calling me a "Wahabi terrorist". When I complained an reported this to the mods, they gave me an infraction instead.

If you are a peacenik and oppose war in principle then I guess we would not have much to discuss, as I believe that there is constant cold or hot often proxy war going on between the main rival groups of countries of the world. And China is getting ready to challenge US/NATO supremacy on world stage (not just South China sea and East China sea) with its SCO grouping, that is the larger background of these on going smaller regional conflicts.

There is ZERO evidence that the Syrian government used chemical weapons. On the contrary, in fact, the last time they were used the UN said it was the 'rebels' and the sarin was determined to be homemade, delivered on homemade rockets. Syrian forces not only don't need to resort to such idiocy because they have a big conventional military, but to use such things, just 10 miles from the hotel where UN inspectors were staying would be retarded. Everyone knows that using CW only means the the western powers, be they NATO or just the USA, now has their excuse to bomb the sh*t out Syria. Do you honestly believe that Assad is so stupid as to invite the US to attack? The US has used "false flags" (an act by one party and blamed on another party) to start many wars, including in Vietnam.

You should go through this thread here:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle...ce-assad-forces-launched-chemical-attack.html

 

[susano]

With all due respect, according to my personal opinion, I don't think you understand the regional dynamics very well, like the people in your state department. I will try to give you a picture from my perspective.

What Neocons did was stupid, but it has become irrelevant now. There are people here from the region, it would help if you would ask them questions. One big problem is that we have now two sides and everyone is engaged in propaganda, so you have to filter that out to make sense of what people are saying.

Israel and many Sunni Arab and most Muslim countries are on US/NATO side, whereas Shia Iran and Pakistan are on opposing SCO(China+Russia) side. To make matters more complicated, US/EU is still biggest market for Chinese export. So the US is essentially financing its own defeat.

Russia has a base in Tartus, Syria is dependent on both Iran and Russia. Iran is dependent on both Russia and China. Russia and China are partners in SCO. This SCO group does not want to loose their lone outpost and base on Mediterranean.

Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld and co. promoted the Al Qaeda brand to run their "war on terror" (GWOT), now its coming back to bite the US. After two meaningless wars, when the US action was really needed here, Obama takes his hands off and hesitates to get involved, which allows Sunni extremists to stream in and become dominant. I opposed both wars and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq, but in this Syrian situation Obama declared at the initial stages that "Assad must go", but he did not follow up his words with action.

The biggest confusion comes from the fact that these Sunni extremists are a confused and clueless lot, they are not controlled by any central authority and they are easily manipulated by people with agenda and thus become foot soldiers. The Shia extremists on the other hand are focused and organized and they seldom have disorganized non-state actors. Assad and Hezbollah, they are the state in their respective country, even though Hezbollah is a terrorist group and Assad is the terrorist ruler. They coordinate closely with Tehran and Tehran coordinates closely with SCO capitals. By taking a hands off approach, the US/NATO/Israel have lost a golden opportunity to create credibility and good will in Sunni Arab and Muslim countries, much of which was lost due to two meaningless intervention in Afghanistan and Iraq, where the US essentially removed dominant Sunni's and installed Shia's in Iraq and Iran friendly Northern Alliance nominally headed by Karzai in Afghanistan. Afghanistan is now firmly in SCO hand as Iran and Pakistan are both close to China. All the US did in Afghanistan was waste blood and treasure for no good reason and in Iraq, the US actually hurt its own interest, by helping Iran and SCO. Some people still question whether Iraq's Shia will choose the US over Iran. Iraq will just put on a show of being a US ally to get economic and strategic benefits, while their real behind the scenes ally will always be Iran and SCO.

So now the Shia side and people backing them are using the Al Qaeda brand to label all of us who support Syrian rebels as either terrorists or terrorist supporters, another classic example of blow back, this time in the form of propaganda brand. I am a Sunni Muslim, so obviously I support the Syrian rebels and oppose Shia supremacy, so now one Iranian is repeatedly calling me a "Wahabi terrorist". When I complained an reported this to the mods, they gave me an infraction instead.

If you are a peacenik and oppose war in principle then I guess we would not have much to discuss, as I believe that there is constant cold or hot often proxy war going on between the main rival groups of countries of the world. And China is getting ready to challenge US/NATO supremacy on world stage (not just South China sea and sea of Japan) with its SCO grouping, that is the larger background of these on going smaller regional conflicts.



You should go through this thread here:

I'll look at the thread.

My understanding of the conflicts and alliances is exactly as you've laid out so we are in agreement on that much.

The US and friends have long had Syria on their to-do list of regime change - and not for some kind of altruistic purposes, either. I would not describe myself as a "peacenik". That's an over simplification. I am a Jeffersonian constitutionalist and non interventionist so, yes, I oppose unethical foreign entanglement on those principals. If the US faces a direct threat, of course, it needs to defend itself. The only country posing a direct threat to the US, at the moment, is Mexico. That's another thread, though. So, with Syria, the US and UK and friends had been planning to take down Assad for a long time. THAT is where the initial problem arose with respect to outside actors. Syria's internal affairs should not be the business of the US or anyone else. From a pragmatic, "Grand Chess Game", point of view, which you seem to be advocating, sure, the US should have gotten involved, immediately. Boots on the ground, even - though, Americans would never have supported it. If the intent is regime change and to control the outcome and future of what Syria will look like, which it is, then the puppet master has to be proactive. However, my position is against such machinations and manipulations. In addition to being destructive to the target countries, it's destructive to America as a free society. Instead of Thomas Jefferson's United States, we are now like the Euroslime colonizing empires. Lets just pretend that the US didn't have Syria slated for a take down. In that case, the US could have used it's influence with the Saudis and Qatar to stay out of it. But, none of that happened and, I'm sorry to say, that it's the Grand Chess Game and the US has made seriously bad moves that are, AS USUAL, causing extreme misery and horror. It's immoral, unethical, politically stupid, and America will crumble into a decayed empire just like Rome. So sad, for all involved. The US was founded by brilliant men and it's fallen under the control of demonic sociopaths. It was once the greatest beacon of freedom and prosperity in the world and now it's a sponsor of global terror.

 

[kalu_miah]

I'll look at the thread.

My understanding of the conflicts and alliances is exactly as you've laid out so we are in agreement on that much.

The US and friends have long had Syria on their to-do list of regime change - and not for some kind of altruistic purposes, either. I would not describe myself as a "peacenik". That's an over simplification. I am a Jeffersonian constitutionalist and non interventionist so, yes, I oppose unethical foreign entanglement on those principals. If the US faces a direct threat, of course, it needs to defend itself. The only country posing a direct threat to the US, at the moment, is Mexico. That's another thread, though. So, with Syria, the US and UK and friends had been planning to take down Assad for a long time. THAT is where the initial problem arose with respect to outside actors. Syria's internal affairs should not be the business of the US or anyone else. From a pragmatic, "Grand Chess Game", point of view, which you seem to be advocating, sure, the US should have gotten involved, immediately. Boots on the ground, even - though, Americans would never have supported it. If the intent is regime change and to control the outcome and future of what Syria will look like, which it is, then the puppet master has to be proactive. However, my position is against such machinations and manipulations. In addition to being destructive to the target countries, it's destructive to America as a free society. Instead of Thomas Jefferson's United States, we are now like the Euroslime colonizing empires. Lets just pretend that the US didn't have Syria slated for a take down. In that case, the US could have used it's influence with the Saudis and Qatar to stay out of it. But, none of that happened and, I'm sorry to say, that it's the Grand Chess Game and the US has made seriously bad moves that are, AS USUAL, causing extreme misery and horror. It's immoral, unethical, politically stupid, and America will crumble into a decayed empire just like Rome. So sad, for all involved. The US was founded by brilliant men and it's fallen under the control of demonic sociopaths. It was once the greatest beacon of freedom and prosperity in the world and now it's a sponsor of global terror.

So you must support Ron Paul and Rand Paul then? When Ron Paul started campaigning in 2008, I became a big supporter of him, I even contributed to his campaign and put up posters on my yard and on my house, but after I found out more, I gave up on him. Ron Paul and his tea party followers are being used by the 1% as their foot soldiers. As you can tell, I was involved with the Occupy movement, mainly online, with a few visits to one of the camp sites.

You should take a look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World-systems_theory

After the fall of Britain and France as colonial empires, the US took up the leadership of the West. There never can be a vacuum, if you retreat, others will come to fill up the gap. If America do not want to remain world's policeman, then you have to make an ordered retreat not a hasty retreat. I discuss such idea's here, where world's countries can be organized into about 6-7 independent regional unions as distributed power centers, where all will be sufficiently large to resist aggression by others:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/164048-kalu_miahs-new-world-order-road-map-future.html

Before such a situation can be achieved, America is the lynchpin of the Global system and hence not in a position to not become involved, because that would be contradiction in terms.

 

[Thorough Pro]

and how does the video prove that the killers are muslims and victims are Christians?

From the way "Cross" flags are in the center and a "Cross" is made on the laptop, I infer that these guys are Christian wolves pretending as muslims, killing two birds with one stone. This is the reason USA is supporting "Christian" alquaeda in Syria everyewhere else in the world, its fighting Alquaeda! you see the irony?

Absolute BULL !!! they have been killing Christians in mass where ever they went...a You tube video is no source...

Syria: Christians take up arms for first time - Telegraph

they are taking up arms against FSA...FYI

Free Syrian Army Killing Christians Burning Churches – markulyseas - My Telegraph

 

[susano]

So you must support Ron Paul and Rand Paul then? When Ron Paul started campaigning in 2008, I became a big supporter of him, I even contributed to his campaign and put up posters on my yard and on my house, but after I found out more, I gave up on him. Ron Paul and his tea party followers are being used by the 1% as their foot soldiers. As you can tell, I was involved with the Occupy movement, mainly online, with a few visits to one of the camp sites.

You should take a look at this:


After the fall of Britain and France as colonial empires, the US took up the leadership of the West. There never can be a vacuum, if you retreat, others will come to fill up the gap. If America do not want to remain world's policeman, then you have to make an ordered retreat not a hasty retreat. I discuss such idea's here, where world's countries can be organized into about 6-7 independent regional unions as distributed power centers, where all will be sufficiently large to resist aggression by others:


Before such a situation can be achieved, America is the lynchpin of the Global system and hence not in a position to not become involved, because that would be contradiction in terms.

Yes, Kalu Miah, I am a supporter of Ron Paul and his son. That just isn't true about them being controlled by anyone. Ron Paul has been singing the same tune since the 80s (Austrian Economics). It was on the Ron Paul Forums, in 2007, that one of the members came up with idea to have an online fundraiser on the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party. Lots of RP supporters re-inacted the original event at nation wide demonstrations and several million dollars was raised in 24 hours, all from small, non corporate donors. It got so much publicity that the neocons and mainstream Republicans hijacked the idea and trademarked various "tea party" names. Those tea party groups had nothing to do with us RP people. Later, some of them supported libertarian leaning candidates, but some of those tea parties are Zionist interventionists. Wolves in sheep's clothing, posing as constitutionalists when they are not. Some of them have attacked the Pauls for not being Israel's bitches.

I agree about an orderly retreat. When you make a big fat mess it takes time to clean up. That said, debt and corruption will cause economic collapse before that ever happens. Things are too corrupt and too far gone to be fixed. We need a re-set button. When "TSHTF" the whole world will go through some very tough times and things will start all over, again, in ways we can't predict. The biggest problem is lack of ethical and brilliant leaders. The sociopaths always rise to the top because they crave power and money the most (Hillary Clinton comes to mind). Sometimes I think this world is actually hell. I'm sure the poor people facing these insane jihadist demons think they're in hell.

I will check out your links (I have to remove them when I quote you because I'm not allowed to post links, yet).

 

[GoodoldBoy]

What do you expect from these foreign mercenaries. Chemical Bandar from saudi arabia is throwing money around like its going out of style. Those animals are killing priests, using chemical weapi s against civilians all while high on saudi arabian captogan. Dont worry though, chemical bandars days are numbered. He will be facing war crimes charges soon. You wont see this troll making any public appearances any time soon. Hes no longer in charge. Hopefully this means the war crimes against the Syrian people will soon end.

 

[Vinod2070]

This has become quite messy with both sides committing horrible crimes.

Based on whatever information is available, it seems the "rebels" are the worse of the lot and need to crushed like the vermin they are.

If they succeed, the Syrians and neighboring people are in for much worse days ahead.

 

[Mugwop]

Chemical Bandar

 

[anilindia]

Although Asad regime is one of most barbiric regime. They killed more than 100000 their own people. But Placing rebel in his place will back fire.

 

[GoodoldBoy]

Please friend. Do not spread propaganda. First off Assad is a London educated eye doctor. Give me a break. John Kerry used to have dinner with him and his wife. Before 2010 the US called him a reformer. Then after they started destabalizing his country and overnight hes a ruthless dictator....its propaganda.

Second this number of 100000 includes both pro Assad military and the takfiri terrorists and innocent civilians on both sides...so your whole " he killed 100000 of his own people" is a lie basically.....

If you look at the figures from Germanys BND, they themselves say the overwhelming majority of syrians are with Assad...what do you think would happen to the people if the head chopping al qaeda came to power? Lets be serious for a moment. You want al qaeda taking over india?

Although Asad regime is one of most barbiric regime. They killed more than 100000 their own people. But Placing rebel in his place will back fire.

 

[Hussein]

In bed in which way?
Did they supply them with weapons? no.
Did they aid them militarily? no.
Did they train them? no.

...?

you are sure ?
CIA begins weapons delivery to Syrian rebels - The Washington Post

 

[W.11]

Because I'm new and don't have 30 posts, I cannot post a link. Put this in Google and read the thread:

"Lunatic Outpost Syrian rebel massacre of 230+ Abducted Civilians and more vids"

I could only watch the first couple and had to turn off the third. Beware because they cannot be unseen.

So much evil in the world.

they are all hard core al CIAda wahabi terrorists who slaughter their enemies, i have seen stuff which you wont imagine, little al CIAda kids sacrficing people like you do with the throat of an animal for example goat

al CIAda is supported by america in syria while they come to abolish their assets in afghanistan

all hail americans, the biggest terror world is facing today