History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

[Andy Lan]

It looks like from Taiping Huanyuji （太平寰宇记）
the begining looks like the same,but the end is different from our books.
Can you post the end from your books?
后汉书‧马援列传 --明年正月,斩征侧、征贰,传首洛阳 write on the paper.

just curious: how extreme? and what thing changed your opinion? are you now liberal or what?

liberal...NO.
《The Crowd》(Gustave Le Bon)
It said that the crowd is mad no matter consist of science or farmer.There are many reasons in it.You can read it I think it is interesting.
I want everybody know I know everything,I am the best debater.like a baby want to tell adult I'm grow up not a bb any more.
Now I prefer to talk not to win.That's my extreme.
As hans said:
with the growth of China economy and military, people are more confident, normal and more treasure their life.the more you know,the more I consider my ignorance.
I'm a Chinese face to expensive house.But I will get it if I work hard--No pain no gain.

 

[EastSea]

I pity you, guys...
fulfilled with fear to China yet so eager to challenge China.
Afraid of being invaded by China, yet so eager to invade laos and Comb...
This kind of strange behavior is something ridiculous....
That is why VN people suffer so much...

Don't bully us, uneducated boy.

dirty chinese aggressors invaded in to Viet land in the past and recently and killed vietnamese.

why to day chinese is crying that Japanese massacred chinese in Nan Jing like animal ?

 

[Grand Historian]

Yawn,more Vietnamese who can't read classical Chinese and claim they understand it better than Chinese.

They cry "dirty Chinese aggressor" when Vietnamese were the ones raiding Chinese provinces therefore provoking a invasion.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

that is your view, not mine.

and yes, ancient china ended with the downfall of the ming dysnasty. and of course there was no a country called china between the collapse of the ming and qing. congrat to your new view on history.

china has little link with ancient china.

The reality is that Vietnam has little to do with the Baiyue group, while the modern China is still a descendant of the ancient China.

 

[dichoi]

The Trưng Sisters are highly revered in Vietnam, as they led the first resistance movement against the occupying Chinese after 247 years of domination. Many temples are dedicated to them, and a yearly holiday, occurring in February, to commemorate their deaths is observed by many Vietnamese. A district in Hanoi called the Hai Ba Trung Distric is named after them. In addition, numerous large streets in major cities and many schools are named after them.

Even though the Trưng Sisters' revolt against the Chinese was almost 2,000 years ago, its legacy in Vietnam remains. The two sisters are considered to be a national symbol in Vietnam. They represent Vietnam's independence. They are often depicted as two women riding two giant war elephants. Many a times, they are seen leading their followers into battle against the Chinese. The Trưng sisters were more than two sisters that gave their life up for their country, they are powerful symbols of Vietnamese resistance and freedom.

 

[Huaren]

It would be respectable if viet struggle against china was all about "resistance and freedom", unfortunately that was not always the case, In the early age viets were seen as traitor because they have repeatedly sworn fealty to china and yet they would break their word at the next oppertunity.

viets have always seen themselves as victims but beside the early revolts most of the conflicts in later era with china were in fact result of regional political balance and aggressions of viets against its neighbours (sometimes even against China), for millenia China has followed the foreign policy of balancing neigbouring powers to maintain border stability and security (kinda like britisch policy for european continent during the middle age). And China has used the same tactic on both in the northern and southern side of border, which was meant to prevent balance shifting, for example if certain mongolian tribe tried to attack a neigbouring tribe China would support the victim and / or punish the aggressor directly, and in the south from chinese perspective is was almost always viets who would make trouble for its neighbours, and China was forced to intervent and punish viets repeatedly.

This tactic of China has failed from time to time in the north mainly because of huge empty steppe region, the great mobility and strong riders of nomadic people, but in the south the balance was more or less maintained. However viets never learnt their "lessons" and were never content with their position, as it appear they are dreaming of Mekong expansion and beyond even up to this day. Who knows if it werent for the China viets might have been able to create a big empire out of Indochina and beyond long time ago.

 

[xesy]

It would be respectable if viet struggle against china was all about "resistance and freedom", unfortunately that was not always the case, In the early age viets were seen as traitor because they have repeatedly sworn fealty to china and yet they would break their word at the next oppertunity.

viets have always seen themselves as victims but beside the early revolts most of the conflicts in later era with china were in fact result of regional political balance and aggressions of viets against its neighbours (sometimes even against China), for millenia China has followed the foreign policy of balancing neigbouring powers to maintain border stability and security (kinda like britisch policy for european continent during the middle age). And China has used the same tactic on both in the northern and southern side of border, which was meant to prevent balance shifting, for example if certain mongolian tribe tried to attack a neigbouring tribe China would support the victim and / or punish the aggressor directly, and in the south from chinese perspective is was almost always viets who would make trouble for its neighbours, and China was forced to intervent and punish viets repeatedly.

This tactic of China has failed from time to time in the north mainly because of huge empty steppe region, the great mobility and strong riders of nomadic people, but in the south the balance was more or less maintained. However viets never learnt their "lessons" and were never content with their position, as it appear they are dreaming of Mekong expansion and beyond even up to this day. Who knows if it werent for the China viets might have been able to create a big empire out of Indochina and beyond long time ago.

Nah, it was never about resistance and freedom, but rather about independence. Promises and agreement was made by VNese kings and officals, who often got executed or fled first when the fight started. Those who led the resistance forces was often nobles or even peasants who got fed up with Chinese oppression.

From VN perspective, China was always the invader, for 1 simple reason: its geography. Being in the center, North of China is the vast grassland and iceland with little agriculture value (ancient China was an agriculture civilization) as well as fierce warrior races which were never conquered; East of China is the endless ocean, and an island nation which China was constantly harrassed by; West of China is a desert. That led to the final and absolute conclusion that the only way for ancient China to expand is the South. And I have watch enough Chinese movies to know that most ancient Chinese emperors were obsessed with the idea of him being able to expand the map of the empire.

VN might have been a vassal state of ancient China, have paid annual tributes for China, but if Chinese army came, we would stand up and fight.

 

[Huaren]

Nah, it was never about resistance and freedom, but rather about independence. Promises and agreement was made by VNese kings and officals, who often got executed or fled first when the fight started. Those who led the resistance forces was often nobles or even peasants who got fed up with Chinese oppression.

From VN perspective, China was always the invader, for 1 simple reason: its geography. Being in the center, North of China is the vast grassland and iceland with little agriculture value (ancient China was an agriculture civilization) as well as fierce warrior races which were never conquered; East of China is the endless ocean, and an island nation which China was constantly harrassed by; West of China is a desert. That led to the final and absolute conclusion that the only way for ancient China to expand is the South. And I have watch enough Chinese movies to know that most ancient Chinese emperors were obsessed with the idea of him being able to expand the map of the empire.

VN might have been a vassal state of ancient China, have paid annual tributes for China, but if Chinese army came, we would stand up and fight.

This might from viet perspective but the south was rarely the center of chinese focus, ever since the Han dynasty Chinese expansion has already reached the southern sea, right from the jungles up to the southwestern mountain regions close to todays borders, it have stayed mostly the same ever since then, and that was two millienium ago, and ever since then chinese always focused attension to the north and to lesser extend the west, and expansions were being made in those direction thoughout the ages, if the northern nomadic people were seen as threat, the southern viets would have been considered as annoyance and distraction

 

[xesy]

This might from viet perspective but the south was rarely the center of chinese focus, ever since the Han dynasty Chinese expansion has already reached the southern sea, right from the jungles up to the southwestern mountain regions close to todays borders, it have stayed mostly the same ever since then, and that was two millienium ago, and ever since then chinese always focused attension to the north and to lesser extend the west, and expansions were being made in those direction thoughout the ages, if the northern nomadic people were seen as threat, the southern viets would have been considered as annoyance and distraction

You missed "a potential threat". Otherwise China would have let VN had its way with the whole Indochina region.

 

[Huaren]

You missed "a potential threat". Otherwise China would have let VN had its way with the whole Indochina region.

Not quite "a potential threat" for China but for its neighbours, for China there is a sense of obligation to maintain order for tributary states in the region, and viets were quite the trouble maker according to the people like those of Cham or Malacca, also there were internal uprising within viets where the rightful ruler got deposed without the acknowledgement of China, in such cases China would have the obligation to step in, but its still far from being "a potential threat", maybe "a real annoyance" would be more accurate.

 

[terranMarine]

VN could never be a threat to China, not in a million years.

 

[楚鮑玉]

As translated:

We are fighting along side of our Queen for the rights of the people of Southern Han, for our honor, and independent. The decisions and actions we undertake is for the cause at hand, in which we believe to be righteous. What others may write of us, good or bad, let history be the judge of it. Thus, will only come to light after 100 years of our death. Renyin Spring 18th year of Jianwu.

Zheng Ce and Zheng Er and their army all died honorably. God bless their souls. Don't blame Ma Yuan. He was only following orders.

 

[bolo]

VN could never be a threat to China, not in a million years.

Vietnam threat.
Gay pride parades in Vietnam | Society | Thanh Nien Daily

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP_1Zz8gcAA

 

[NiceGuy]

As hans said:
with the growth of China economy and military, people are more confident, normal and more treasure their life.the more you know,the more I consider my ignorance.
I'm a Chinese face to expensive house.But I will get it if I work hard--No pain no gain.

Your growth depend on US-EU who buy a lot of ur products, if they stop buying, then ur economy will collapse.

 

[terranMarine]

But are they stop buying it?
Just as Sino-Japanese trade that keeps on growing, these apes are such a simpleton