History of Pakistan Air Force

[Skywalker]

he gave me my Airforce name Tiger , in 71 he did fly but was not allowed to go into combat. I was in 26 Sqd weather was bad and could'nt land in Peshawar so I deverted to kamra from there I was ordered to goto Sargodha had to pick some papers which were very important. Luckly bumped into MM . SO he says to me hi come on let me teach you how to fly and I said,I dont understand he says best of three and I said ok lets go. Before we got into the planes I said no we will change planes you will fly my plane serial 001 and I will fly yours serial 026. The whole base was betting against me and I was 5 to 1 , see they knew he couldn;t go into combat and will really kick my Butt to show how good he is. Before I take off ATC Flt lt sheeren wife of Flt lt Ansari tells me Bahi the bet is 5 to 1, that made me very nervous, so we took off and the battle started we had a time limit for every one 6 min for 1 dog fight. In all 3 dog fights I could not shoot him down and he could not shoot me down and when we landed he said you are a tiger no doubt. We took some photos and I still have his photo with his saber saying ( I dont drink any more signed MM ALAM).
Normally in state of war you put your best men to fight but I never understood nor did he till today that why cound'nt he go into combat with his experience, I think Top Brass thought that if he gets shot down it would look bad for PAF that he is in the hands of Indians. Specially when Indians knew that 026 will be MM alam it would have been a trophy for the IAF to have him in shakles and put his photo all over the news papers.

Dear Murad Saab,

Does that mean PAF developed some fear against IAF in 1971, I beleive countries always use their best of assets and resources whenever they are in need and that was the best time to do that???

 

[Muradk]

Sky in 1971 a wing commander used to be a God we hardly ever saw the base commander and he used to be 1 star General. Now when the Chief Of the Air staff says he will not go into combat, That's it. It is beyond Contestation.

 

[pkpatriotic]

Wow
This is awe-inspiring that encourage ppls.

Long Live Pakistan - Long live strenghten Air Force

 

[ejaz007]

Dear Murad Sb.

My information is based on reports from different web sites and news papers. Unfortunately I can not provide links to the newspapers since we are talking about 1970's and 1980's era.

As far as 1971 war is concerned I have following information, hopefully it is correct:

On 4th December 1971 Flying Officer Naeem Atta shot down a Canberra near Sargodha.
On 5th December 1971 Flying Officer Safdar shot down Hunter near Sakesar.
On 6th December 1971 Mirage III flown by Haider (don't know his rank) shot down a Su-7.
On 11th December Mirages of No. 5 squadron shot down 2 Gnats and one Canberra. Pilots details not available.

Regards,

 

[fatman17]

Dear Murad Sb.

My information is based on reports from different web sites and news papers. Unfortunately I can not provide links to the newspapers since we are talking about 1970's and 1980's era.

As far as 1971 war is concerned I have following information, hopefully it is correct:

On 4th December 1971 Flying Officer Naeem Atta shot down a Canberra near Sargodha.
On 5th December 1971 Flying Officer Safdar shot down Hunter near Sakesar.
On 6th December 1971 Mirage III flown by Haider (don't know his rank) shot down a Su-7.
On 11th December Mirages of No. 5 squadron shot down 2 Gnats and one Canberra. Pilots details not available.

Regards,

i have also seen this info on one of the un-official PAF web-sites on PAF kills during 71 airwar.

 

[x_man]

Dear Murad Sb.

My information is based on reports from different web sites and news papers. Unfortunately I can not provide links to the newspapers since we are talking about 1970's and 1980's era.

As far as 1971 war is concerned I have following information, hopefully it is correct:

On 4th December 1971 Flying Officer Naeem Atta shot down a Canberra near Sargodha.
On 5th December 1971 Flying Officer Safdar shot down Hunter near Sakesar.
On 6th December 1971 Mirage III flown by Haider (don't know his rank) shot down a Su-7.
On 11th December Mirages of No. 5 squadron shot down 2 Gnats and one Canberra. Pilots details not available.

Regards,

IMO, this info is just made up and I have my doubts about its authenticity. I don’t think that Mirages achieved any Air-Air kill during 71 war.

As far as the CAPs during 80s are concerned, they were mainly carried out by F-16s and few by F-6s. No Mirage ever shot down any Afghani intruder during this time.

 

[fatman17]

so x_man its your opinion against ejaz007's.! any proof?

 

[x_man]

so x_man its your opinion against ejaz007's.! any proof?

No proof....sorry.....

I never heard of any air to air Kill by Mirage.........But if there is any....It will be a news for me and I will be happy to know about it too....

 

[Muradk]

X: IMO, this info is just made up and I have my doubts about its authenticity. I don’t think that Mirages achieved any Air-Air kill during 71 war



4Dec 1971 Mirage IIIEP Fl lt Naeem Atta was the first PAF pilot to shot down Canberra B.

5dec 1971 Mirage IIIEP Sqn Ldr farooq umar shot 2 hunters.
5Dec 1971 Mirage IIIEP Flt lt safder shot 1 hunter
6Dec 1971 Mirage III EP Ftl lt Salimuddin shot SU-7 ( My avatar is of him after he shot the plane that is salim )
13Dec 1971 Nosy Haider Mirage IIIEP shot SU-7
13Dec 1971 fl lt Shah Mirage IIIEP Shot SU-7.

all Mirage were from 5 Sqd

 

[fatman17]

No proof....sorry.....

I never heard of any air to air Kill by Mirage.........But if there is any....It will be a news for me and I will be happy to know about it too....

that sir is proof enough for me - no hard feelings!

 

[x_man]

that sir is proof enough for me - no hard feelings!

Absolutely not...

Rather its great to hear about the kills ....and definitely no doubts on Sir Murads authenticity......

 

[shehbazi2001]

Its feeling good that Mirages have drawn some blood, Canberra is not a fighter but still something is there.............

but still in comparision to Isr AF, the Mirages were not used to their full potential. But this may be just my own feeling.

Also when I compare Indian Mig-21s and Mirages of PAF, the leading fighters of both sides in 1971, the role of Mig-21 seems dominant. Others may differ.

Perhaps it would be good if the incharge of this forum arranges an interview on these topics with the Mirage pilots of 1971 like Sajjad Haider or M M Alam or even Hakimullah. Before the interview, the questions may be gathered from members of the forum........

 

[x_man]

Perhaps it would be good if the incharge of this forum arranges an interview on these topics with the Mirage pilots of 1971 like Sajjad Haider or M M Alam or even Hakimullah. Before the interview, the questions may be gathered from members of the forum........

I think that with Sir Murad K on this forum who is a veteran of both wars and participated in them actively, do we really need another source to verify anything? His contributions on this forum speak for themselves...

 

[Neo]

Gentlemen, lets just leave it here.
Thanks!

 

[Blackpearl]

In Pakistan Air Force combat history, The Pak Afghan Aeriel duels of 80s form a cornerstone, as F-16s were pitched against soviet supplied fighters. Pak aviatorsproved their mettle, and during this period, 8 intruding Afghan jets were shot down. All kills are claimed by F-16s, ( and definitely not by F-6s).

However, a strange episode happens, in one of the dogfights, when one of our own F-16 was shot down by his wingman (another F-16), by a sidewinder missile.

Can anybody shed some light on this?