HISTORY OF MALABAR :DISCUSSIONS.

[MokshaVimukthi]

13th Century Salagama Brahakmana Flag
View attachment 65702

Caste system in Ceylon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is an interesting portrait which shows some sort of history.

The flag is surrounded by images of sea shells so we can assume they were a sea faring community.

The middle row images shows the men doing armed and unarmed combat so kalari was studied and practiced by them.

Bottom image shows them attacking the Dutch ship and killing one of their men. You can recognise them as dutch due to the shape of the ship and the flag shown in the image. Images of Dutch ship and ancient dutch flag "The Princevlag"

Ancient Indian ships,

You can observe the saffron flag on the second ship which is a colour used only in India. For flags or otherwise since ancient times.

They seems to have travelled on an Indian ship to lanka and settled there.

Aren't Brahmins and Ksatriya primary land owning group in India?

Correct me if i am wrong here.

You are wrong. Most of the land is owned by Vaishyas and shudras since they were the traders and farmers.

What i have heard is that caste is still quite prevalent in the Tamil community especially Hindu Tamils of Jaffna (Vellaya) but not so much among Sinhalese except for arranged marriages

Caste pretty much exist only during an arranged marriage and education and job reservation. Otherwise no one bothers with it.

 

[temporary handle]

You are wrong. Most of the land is owned by Vaishyas and shudras since they were the traders and farmers.
.

But What about grant of land to Brahmins by Kings.

And weren't Ksatriya ruling class. World over, erstwhile Nobility has highest ownership of land.

 

[abjktu]

Gibbs has mentioned it in the post #373

Yeah..I have read the same about karawa and Govigama castes...
karawa-sinhalized karaiyar Tamils??
Govigama-some sections of them had telegu ancestry..in fact the last king of kandy was a telegu naicker??

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

you may right...but Tamils are claiming otherwise..kottai means fort in Tamil too...
btw-Kottaaram means palace in Malayalam and kotta means fort..

The Ancient capital of the Satavahanas Empire during 230 BC was Koti-linga. or city with I crore shiva lingas.

Sanskrit for Fort is Kota from the world Koti. Ancient prakrit was known in tamil nadu for more than 2000 years and so it is more likely the word Kotta was introduced into Tamil via sanskrit or prakrit.

 

[abjktu]

But What about grant of land to Brahmins by Kings.

And weren't Ksatriya ruling class. World over, erstwhile Nobility has highest ownership of land.

Most of the agricultural lands in Kerala was once owned by Brahmins and kshathriyans....but now most are under Christians...

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

But What about grant of land to Brahmins by Kings.

And weren't Ksatriya ruling class. World over, erstwhile Nobility has highest ownership of land.

It depends on how many years back you want to go.

Land grants were primarily to temples, not directly to the brahmins. The revenue from the land was for the upkeep of the temples. The brahmins were care takers and the workers on the farms were the shudras.

In India as per Hinduism 1/6 of the state revenue went to the king as his salary and for running the administration. He was forbidden to own land since he was the caretaker of the whole kingdom. Similar to the brahmins being caretaker for the temples.

Vaishyas and sudhras had no restrictions on owning land.

Later on large Jagir's started being issued to local commanders after the muslim invaded and started that practice in India. (It was an persian practice) Most land in India used to belong to the local community and not to the king.

 

[temporary handle]

It depends on how many years back you want to go.

Land grants were primarily to temples, not directly to the brahmins. The revenue from the land was for the upkeep of the temples. The brahmins were care takers and the workers on the farms were the shudras.

In India as per Hinduism 1/6 of the state revenue went to the king as his salary and for running the administration. He was forbidden to own land since he was the caretaker of the whole kingdom. Similar to the brahmins being caretaker for the temples.

Vaishyas and sudhras had no restrictions on owning land.

Later on large Jagir's started being issued to local commanders after the muslim invaded and started that practice in India. (It was an persian practice) Most land in India used to belong to the local community and not to the king.

I have read about Rajputs being one of primary landowning community in India. Thus the conclusion........

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

Most of the agricultural lands in Kerala was once owned by Brahmins and kshathriyans....but now most are under Christians...

Do you have statistics or records to prove this ? Or is it based on hear say ?

Nairs became land owners only after the british banned them from being kshatriyas and they were forced into farming against their will. This was as recent as 200 years back.

Today the largest land owners in kerala are muslims, followed by chrisitans, followed by upper caste hindus and then lower caste hindus.

I have read about Rajputs being one of primary landowning community in India. Thus the conclusion........

That was granted to them by the muslim kings as jagirs for work rendered. It was cheaper than paying them in gold.

The practice then caught on.

 

[temporary handle]

Do you have statistics or records to prove this ? Or is it based on hear say ?

Nairs became land owners only after the british banned them from being kshatriyas and they were forced into farming against their will. This was as recent as 200 years back.

Today the largest land owners in kerala are muslims, followed by chrisitans, followed by upper caste hindus and then lower caste hindus.



That was granted to them by the muslim kings as jagirs for work rendered. It was cheaper than paying them in gold.

The practice then caught on.

How would you classify Bhumihars? I have no idea about that caste.

 

[abjktu]

Do you have statistics or records to prove this ? Or is it based on hear say ?

Nairs became land owners only after the british banned them from being kshatriyas and they were forced into farming against their will. This was as recent as 200 years back.

Today the largest land owners in kerala are muslims, followed by chrisitans, followed by upper caste hindus and then lower caste hindus.

hearsay...
I meant the agricultural land...
Mostly all agricultural sectors,specially Midland/high range plantation crops(tea,coffee,rubber,cardamom,pepper,cocoa,vanilla) +good parts of paddy fields in kottayam,pathanamthitta,kuttanad are managed by Christians....plantation crops needs vast tracts of lands..
FYI-40% of farmers in Kerala are Christians ..
Muslims are mostly in business...

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

How would you classify Bhumihars? I have no idea about that caste.

This is off topic so I will keep it brief.

Bhumihars means Bhumi-Kara which is sanskrit for land holders or in who's grip land lies.

This is a recent caste that was invented only after the british introduced Zamindari system. Bhumihars were Tax collectors who got converted into land owners due to their loyalties to the british and made tax collection and exploitation that much easier for the british.

Bhumihars also served in the british army like the sikhs and the Mahars after the 1857 mutiny where most of the mutineer were upper caste men. This made them rich too.

It is unlikely they would be upper caste though being rich and powerful helped them claim upper caste status.

 

[SrNair]

There is also a famous town in Karnataka called Saligrama. The place lies in the historic Tulunadu region, which has had significant cultural links with Kerala. The Brahmins from that region, however, do not call themselves as Saligrama Brahmins. Are there any brahmin communities in Kerala that call themselves Saligrama Brahmins?

No , In kerala Brahmins are known in the name of Namboodiris,Bhattathiris,Embranthiri etc. Not Saligrama.

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

hearsay...
I meant the agricultural land...
Mostly all agricultural sectors,specially Midland/high range plantation crops(tea,coffee,rubber,cardamom,pepper,cocoa,vanilla) +good parts of paddy fields in kottayam,pathanamthitta,kuttanad are managed by Christians....plantation crops needs vast tracts of lands..
FYI-40% of farmers in Kerala are Christians ..
Muslims are mostly in business...

Uppercaste in Kerala were never primary land owners. Most earned their living by either scholarship or by shedding blood.

Only christians own enough land to make farming fesible. It was under Colonel Munro who was the god father of the syrian christians that they become rich land owners.

Today most of the non agriculture land are owned by muslims.

 

[SrNair]

I have read about Rajputs being one of primary landowning community in India. Thus the conclusion........

In Kerala it is quite different .Major landowners were Varmas,Nairs and Ezhavas .Brahmins also had land.

hearsay...
I meant the agricultural land...
Mostly all agricultural sectors,specially Midland/high range plantation crops(tea,coffee,rubber,cardamom,pepper,cocoa,vanilla) +good parts of paddy fields in kottayam,pathanamthitta,kuttanad are managed by Christians....plantation crops needs vast tracts of lands..
FYI-40% of farmers in Kerala are Christians ..
Muslims are mostly in business...

Except agricultural most of others are owned by Muslims.Even in my area they are buying land for huge amount.

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

Two of the greatest evils who visited Hindus in Kerala was Tipu Sultan and Colonel John Munro.

Colonel John Munro who was a committed Christian missionary as well as a ruthless colonialist like Tipu sultan was also the Dewan (Prime Minister) of Travancore and Cochin and de facto ruler. His approach was two pronged.

First he took out a proclamation that took over all the temple land without any compensation to the owners. The seized land was so much that the annual land revenue accruing to the state doubled.

He then at the same time gave out munificent land grants to the Churches. He invited British-sponsored fierce proselytism and actively encouraged conversion among the pagans.

Monro then passing a law that allowed only christian women to cover their breasts. Hindu women got this right only after he stopped being Dewan.

By denying the temples money for rituals and upkeep, thousands of temples in Kerala did not have the wherewithal even for token rituals; thousands fell into ruins. When the hindus then protested and tried to take back their land, He ensured that the records of the sequestered temple lands and of state-owned lands were thoroughly intermixed; so much so that it had been made quite impossible to catalogue temple lands separately from government lands and thus the demand was again denied.

Most of the temples which utilised this land revenue to run schools also had to shut stop. This gap was then filled by christian missionary schools which was started under the guidance of Colonel Monro.

This british Resident cum Dewam accomplished through his single bloodless coup the ruin and devastation of Hindu temples — and Hindu pride. Something that took islamic invaders 800 years to achieve in India !!!!

No muslim mosque land or church land was ever touched during his tenure.

Colonel Munroe forced the maharani to gifted him an island which was named Munro Island. and funds were made available for Christian college in 1815 and he also made scholarship available for 50 students by that land grant and he has said "It is only by an efficient course of instruction at the college, that a respectable body of native clergy can be produced for the service of the syrian churches, and for the propagation of Christianity among the heathens"