Hindutva and Zionism hurdles to peace and democracy: Scholars

[illusion8]

What evidence do you have that democracy is the answer and the majority in India want it. The only thing you Indians get is a pat on your backs from west telling you you are good boys. China has eradicated illiteracy and taken hundreds of millions out of poverty. I am sure Starving Indians Pakistanis would prefer food and literacy than democracy which has delivered nothing but corrupt political leaders in India and Pakistan.

Back to topic Hindutva is contradictory to secularism

Can you give your beloved country and its people in the hands of a few men(if so can u trust & name one person convincingly) without yourself having the power to oust them if they do not perform or do not do the duties assigned to them benefiting the people?

 

[DDLJ]

Do you think the poor and starving who are actually a massive majority in both our respective countries have voted for the status quo?? Do you think they give a rats a$$ to what a few Pakistanis and Indians state about this supposed democracy on the internet forum??

possible in ur country, not ours.

 

[livingdead]

What evidence do you have that democracy is the answer and the majority in India want it. The only thing you Indians get is a pat on your backs from west telling you you are good boys. China has eradicated illiteracy and taken hundreds of millions out of poverty. I am sure Starving Indians Pakistanis would prefer food and literacy than democracy which has delivered nothing but corrupt political leaders in India and Pakistan.

Back to topic Hindutva is contradictory to secularism

Well, if somebody can guarantee that buy changing our political system we can gurantee food and literacy I would certainly support it.
But country after country has shown, such authoritarian regimes have lied to outsiders( not talking about china) and when they country changed to democracy, all we see is horror stories of previous regimes.
China is more of an exception than rule. We in India saw with wide eyed wonder how russia could make a perfect country, with perfect citizens, excelling in every field, defeating imperialist america everywhere, but how stupid were we?

Do you have an alternative political structure to democracy. If yes, tell me how it will work better than democracy in present form in India/pakistan.
Especially in diverse India where people will rather revolt and fight than bow down before a central authority.

 

[lem34]

Well, if somebody can guarantee that buy changing our political system we can gurantee food and literacy I would certainly support it.
But country after country has shown, such authoritarian regimes have lied to outsiders( not talking about china) and when they country changed to democracy, all we see is horror stories of previous regimes.
China is more of an exception than rule. We in India saw with wide eyed wonder how russia could make a perfect country, with perfect citizens, excelling in every field, defeating imperialist america everywhere, but how stupid were we?

Do you have an alternative political structure to democracy. If yes, tell me how it will work better than democracy in present form in India/pakistan.
Especially in diverse India where people will rather revolt and fight than bow down before a central authority.

I f you start a differing thread on democracy I will be happy to participate.

Back onto this thread tell me what do you think of some earlier posts by Indian forum members some who have suggested that hindutva adherents and BJP are thugs and agreed that Hindutva is incompatible with secularism and then on the forum members have said that it is and they follow it??

---------- Post added at 07:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 PM ----------

possible in ur country, not ours.

Of course. Starving Indian is so different to a starving Pakistani.

Back to topic I am compelled to say that Hindutva which is a growing movement in India is incompatible with secularism

 

[Tshering22]

Back to topic I am compelled to say that Hindutva which is a growing movement in India is incompatible with secularism

Secularism will be respected only if the sentiments and culture of the land is respected. Otherwise naturally there's bound to be repercussions. Secularists tried their best to alienate us, sikhs and jains from mainstream Hinduism by creating an alternate history about how we are different from each other. But that false wall is cracking and most of these wannabe anti-national fence-sitting secularists are going to face the music.

If Hindutva indeed can make India as strong, stable and developed as Israel, as patriotic and fierce as Israelis are for their land, then I not being a Hindu, will support it. Secularists have only brought misery with their bigotry and created more division among our people. Neither mainstream Hindus nor us nor any other communities are now pleased with them.

 

[livingdead]

I f you start a differing thread on democracy I will be happy to participate.

Back onto this thread tell me what do you think of some earlier posts by Indian forum members some who have suggested that hindutva adherents and BJP are thugs and agreed that Hindutva is incompatible with secularism and then on the forum members have said that it is and they follow it??

---------- Post added at 07:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 PM ----------



Of course. Starving Indian is so different to a starving Pakistani.

Back to topic I am compelled to say that Hindutva which is a growing movement in India is incompatible with secularism

Well I just replid to your post, I dont need to open a thread, you are welcome to do so though.

About hindutva, I think it is mostly reactionary and has run its course peaking during 90s. The chances of it returning in its full glory is remote.
However the whole world is moving towards right, and I would be lying if I say India has not.

The BJP tried to potray hindutva as some sort of cultural and political renaissance, but in practice it seemed to be what its detracters were telling from day 1, a hindu supremacist idea.
BJP has climbed down a lot since losing many elections, and now the only agenda they are competing with congress is on development/governance/poverty alleviation. It has got some success in muslim and christian dominated areas, which will force it to dilute the hindutva even more.

 

[lem34]

Well I just replid to your post, I dont need to open a thread, you are welcome to do so though.

About hindutva, I think it is mostly reactionary and has run its course peaking during 90s. The chances of it returning in its full glory is remote.
However the whole world is moving towards right, and I would be lying if I say India has not.

The BJP tried to potray hindutva as some sort of cultural and political renaissance, but in practice it seemed to be what its detracters were telling from day 1, a hindu supremacist idea.
BJP has climbed down a lot since losing many elections, and now the only agenda they are competing with congress is on development/governance/poverty alleviation. It has got some success in muslim and christian dominated areas, which will force it to dilute the hindutva even more.

I hope that your assessment is correct. But if you look at some earlier posts some Indians are very pro hindutva.

 

[foxbat]

I hope that your assessment is correct. But if you look at some earlier posts some Indians are very pro hindutva.

And that is wrong why?

 

[livingdead]

I hope that your assessment is correct. But if you look at some earlier posts some Indians are very pro hindutva.

Well the popular mood is anti congress now, due to corruption.
About BJP returning to its hindutva agenda, there is a finite but small chance of it happening.
The reason is most of the top leaders of BJP are nearly equal ( they dont command respect like Vajpayee or Advani), hence they may not be able to resist RSS control over BJP effectively. Vajpayee and Advani resisted direct influence of RSS. Huge electoral reverse may force BJP to think going back to hindutva again. (to get support from its core voters)

BJP in central govt is completely different, they do real politics, and I would even say eager to shake hand with pakistan. I would like to try another BJP term at centre, I am extremely wary of them ruling states.

 

[lem34]

Well the popular mood is anti congress now, due to corruption.
About BJP returning to its hindutva agenda, there is a finite but small chance of it happening.
The reason is most of the top leaders of BJP are nearly equal ( they dont command respect like Vajpayee or Advani), hence they may not be able to resist RSS control over BJP effectively. Vajpayee and Advani resisted direct influence of RSS. Huge electoral reverse may force BJP to think going back to hindutva again. (to get support from its core voters)

BJP in central govt is completely different, they do real politics, and I would even say eager to shake hand with pakistan. I would like to try another BJP term at centre, I am extremely wary of them ruling states.

thank you that is informative. I too have thought at time there are some contradictions in what BJP do and what some individuals in BJP say

 

[ashokdeiva]

By that logic Hitler should not be accused of the holocaust either. He was not at aushwitz

Hitler and Himler and other SS officers ordered the houlcast, and so he is responsible. but Modi did not order the riot to take place and for your information not all governments of the World can control a mob or a riot of large magnitude over night with out loss of life and property.
If any one has to be blamed for the riot to have occured and loss of life in large scale then its the a holes who burnt the train full of women and children. then that a holes were people who called themselves Muslims but did not follow Islam in this case. Will the normal hindu in this case think like me that these people who did this not not Muslims thoug they called themselves Muslims, NO.
All his(hindu) anger will reflect in the form of riot or taking revenge for the sisters, wifes and sons who died in the train.

Heck even the recent London riot took 1 week to get under control, with a sophesticated european country like UK failing to curtail a riot with in a Day how come you are expecting Gujarat riot to be controlled in one day with out loss of life. and on what basis you are holding Modi accountable for what happened.

 

[Jackdaws]

ALL religion extremism is a hurdle to peace and democracy including Hindutva and Zionism - don't need scholars telling me that; you would have to be an idiot to believe otherwise.

 

[jbond197]

Ok then do tell us - which religion offers a solution to this? I mean which religion is not a hurdle to peace and democracy. I would like to know views of all the Pakistanis commenting on this thread. I know what you are going to say but still want to hear from your mouth..

 

[ashokdeiva]

Ok then do tell us - which religion offers a solution to this? I mean which religion is not a hurdle to peace and democracy. I would like to know views of all the Pakistanis commenting on this thread. I know what you are going to say but still want to hear from your mouth..

keep your religion to your bed room and prayer hall and once you step out of these two places do not think about your religion but the rights and wrongs that you as a human will decide when you do your daily duty of feeding your family or having fun with your friends or even making a business decession,

A good and noble man does what is Good for him and Good for others in the real world, when i say good for others its not telling others to follow your religion or some other in order to enter the gates of heaven. The heaven is right here in the real world where you breath and die. Make your life happy and peaceul in this planet and you'll see that Heaven is here in this planet its not some where else on Mars or other celestial body that God takes you when you die.

 

[lem34]

Ok then do tell us - which religion offers a solution to this? I mean which religion is not a hurdle to peace and democracy. I would like to know views of all the Pakistanis commenting on this thread. I know what you are going to say but still want to hear from your mouth..

At last some sense. I agree with you. We in Pakistan have a small minority although very vocal and lethal of extremists who are causing havoc for all of us. What worries me about India is that Hindutva is a philosophy promoted by a a political party that commands significant support among Indians and could actually become the ruling party.

Even on this thread there is dissension between some Indians considering BJP etc to be thugs and others thinking that it is the best for India