Hindus, Muslims should fight poverty, not each other: PM Narendra Modi

[Joe Shearer]

Again I repeat. In an idealistic world where we actually cherish the concepts of state secularism, multicultural diversity and an utopian culture which treats people based on values and issues and not on castes and religions, this would be in my hands.

And again, I repeat in my turn, this is the only world that we are likely to get, and this is the world where we have to install our ideal institutions. It will not happen without effort and without pain, so get used to that idea. It is you and I who have to bring in state secularism, multicultural diversity and an appropriate culture which treats people based on values and issues and not on castes and religions. Who else will do it? Why would they do it?

I hate to say this, buit go out from Mumbai/ Kolkata/ Delhi into the interior hinterlands.... castes, religion and petty issues like sub-categories decides the fortunes in day to day life. Politicians are only an extension of our society and our mindset at large. Afterall, it is us who vote for them, isn't it?

Champ, you'd be surprised how much of my life has been in the interior hinterlands.

I am far more sensitive to these issues, and to the impingement of dark forces in our daily life than you seem to think. If it were not for my appalled reaction to the working of society in these hinterlands, I would not oppose the Sangh Parivar so vehemently. And if it were not for the willingness of others to compromise, and to go along with the majority, those politicians whom we all dislike would not have been elected. After all, to quote a wise man, it is us who vote for them, isn't it?

 

[scorpionx]

I get that our PM was not strong enough in his words. He should have been specific and should have condemned the whole thing, without conditions.

However Sir @Joe Shearer and @scorpionx what I feel repulsive is the Media which inflated the issue so much that people have to take sides in the debate cause anyone who comes neutral to such communal incidents cannot remain in a neutral stand. Cause if he does, people label as per the arguments put forward minus the context.

I hate to justify any of what happened but cannot ignore the statement by Nayantara Shagal on asking why she did not give the award back in 1984 this is all she could come up with

https://twitter.com/x/status/651426704028647425

Please read the complete statement from Mrs. Sehgal. She has quite explicitly spoken about it. It was PUCL where she was vice-president that first came with full reports on atrocities in 84 and she received her academy award two years later. Its a common tendency to get carried away easily with media propaganda which you condemned but yet conviniently became a prey of it.

 

[Prajapati]

Please read the complete statement from Mrs. Sehgal. She has quite explicitly spoken about it. It was PUCL where she was vice-president that first came with full reports on atrocities in 84 and she received her academy award two years later. Its a common tendency to get carried away easily with media propaganda which you condemned but yet conviniently became a prey of it.

What moral authority does Mrs. Sehgal have ? What right to demonstrate moral outrage ?

Where is the evidence of this "award" winner (niece of Jawaharlal Nehru) questioned the Congress's track record of playing communal politics ?

What is the use of her "speaking explicitly" about the Sikh Riots while shamelessly accepting the award a mere two years after the Riot ? ....... that too when it was clear that the congress govt. had no intention of providing justice to the victims ? ..accepting award from the same hands of the man who said when "big tree falls, ground trembles" ?

She enjoyed the benefits of the award (both monetary and non monetary) till her deathbead and now she wants to return it because there is a "hindutva" govt. at the centre ? ....... sadly the "dadri" incident happened in UP where there is a SP govt. providing secular governance.

When have we heard her speak against the many many many evils of the congress govt ?

What kind of shameless woman plays politics on the dead body of dadri victim ? ..........and then goes on to claim "morality" ?

Modi is a very smart man, or his advisers are but they are making a fatal mistake here. Masses sure can be fooled but not by using the same trick again and again.

Hindu Militancy is a wildfire which would burn indiscriminately - he cannot afford to play a passive aggressive game on this.He should either declare himself to be a Man many suspect him to be or he should make it clear that no acts of Militancy or rabble-rousing would be tolerated be it Hindu or Muslim and put every one involved in stoking the fires of religious tensions behind bar and throw away the key.

What a shame Modi do not play by YOUR Rules

Are you asking that the Media be locked behind bars and the key thrown away ?

LOL......... looks like my reply to @Joe Shearer was deleted

No doubt on his complaining to the pakistani Mods.

 

[Joe Shearer]

What moral authority does Mrs. Sehgal have ? What right to demonstrate moral outrage ?

Where is the evidence of this "award" winner (niece of Jawaharlal Nehru) questioned the Congress's track record of playing communal politics ?

What is the use of her "speaking explicitly" about the Sikh Riots while shamelessly accepting the award a mere two years after the Riot ? ....... that too when it was clear that the congress govt. had no intention of providing justice to the victims ? ..accepting award from the same hands of the man who said when "big tree falls, ground trembles" ?

She enjoyed the benefits of the award (both monetary and non monetary) till her deathbead and now she wants to return it because there is a "hindutva" govt. at the centre ? ....... sadly the "dadri" incident happened in UP where there is a SP govt. providing secular governance.

When have we heard her speak against the many many many evils of the congress govt ?

What kind of shameless woman plays politics on the dead body of dadri victim ? ..........and then goes on to claim "morality" ?



What a shame Modi do not play by YOUR Rules

Are you asking that the Media be locked behind bars and the key thrown away ?

LOL......... looks like my reply to @Joe Shearer was deleted

What a shame. No doubt on his complaining to the pakistani Mods.

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[Prajapati]

What on earth are you talking about?

LOL.......... playing innocent, are we ?

You are truly shameless.

 

[Joe Shearer]

LOL.......... playing innocent, are we ?

You are truly shameless.

I really have no idea what is going on. What are you referring to? Suddenly I find my name tagged in your post, with a mysterious series of jokes understood possibly by only yourself; suddenly I find that I am supposed to be in conversation with you, which is dismaying, given your utterly poisonous nature and detestable views.

If you have something to say, say it. Don't act coy and keep hinting at something that you would have done if you could have done and should have done.
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You mention the 'Pakistani mods'. If you cannot refer to them with respect and with courtesy, perhaps you should leave this Pakistani forum.

Let me assure you, if I had been a moderator, being an Indian, I would have been ten times more strict than they have been. The moderators are extremely sensitive to free speech and allow enormous latitude. They have in fact talked to me in a gentle and reasonable tone, treating me as a peer and an equal, with the greatest courtesy, just last night, and I found that I voluntarily wished to soften my extreme stand, a softening that I regret when I read your bilge.

I belong to various fora, and this set of moderators is an exceptional one (although a little lenient). You would not survive on Bharat Rakshak for as many minutes as they have allowed you days.

Just to avoid misinterpretation of that line, I have never been and never will be a member of Bharat Rakshak, and detest them and their whole approach. My remark is based on casual browsing, the last occasion being several years ago.

 

[Prajapati]

I really have no idea what is going on. What are you referring to? Suddenly I find my name tagged in your post, with a mysterious series of jokes understood possibly by only yourself; suddenly I find that I am supposed to be in conversation with you, which is dismaying, given your utterly poisonous nature and detestable views.

If you have something to say, say it. Don't act coy and keep hinting at something that you would have done if you could have done and should have done.

Don't fret. When I have something to say I will say it. Regardless of negative ratings. LOL.

 

[Arsalan mehmud]

Modi is too clever...When godhra incident happened than at that time why he didn't deliver same message...although many reports says that godhra incident has ill works of hindu org like RSS. UC Banerji report suggest it was accidental..
But for dadri incident he is now seeing poverty...but not criticizing incident and assurance for justice..

 

[Joe Shearer]

Don't fret. When I have something to say I will say it. Regardless of negative ratings. LOL.

And don't fret in your own turn. When you have something to say, I will carefully evaluate it, and if needed, rate it negatively. Don't think that you will avert those, if they are necessary, by this show of bravado. Only your post content will count. And on present showing, since you have nothing to do but abuse those not here on the forum, you are headed inexorably for trouble.

 

[Spectre]

@Joe Shearer @scorpionx @SarthakGanguly @vsdoc Do you think the lack of tolerance and hardening of anti Islamic stand we see among so many of Hindus today is irreversible and something which was inevitable?

Consider our hinterlands - The hate is spreading and polarization is happening at a frightening speed through interpersonal internet mediums like Whatsapp - the kind of videos and posts which are proliferating would put Goebbels's propaganda to shame. These videos are masterfully and prodigiously made suggesting a professional set up with a long term agenda. In response same strategy is being followed by Muslim groups resulting in clear cut formation of camps some of them armed.

Present Govt may have just acted like a quickening agent but the question remains is India too heterogeneous a country to exist in it's current shape?

The counter point is India has resilience to bounce back as we did in case of Sikh movements - what seemed at one point of time a serious threat to Indian unity has mostly been eradicated but it can be argued that differences between Hindus and Muslims have a much stronger foundation than Hindu - Sikh one which was instigated by a singular figure.

Regards

 

[vsdave2302]

good that he has realized it... therefore he should immediately disassociate himself from the sangh.

Sangh stands for unity of all who are loyal to the nation. Sangh supported Abdul kalam as president. Sangh can not support Azam khan and Bukhairi like congress does. Muslims need to stop looking at arebia to know what is real Islam. Indian Muslims has a sufi philosophy at its core which emerged from Hinduism. India has given Muslims a lot. They need to redujust themself in line with nationalism and it is happening. I remember, when I was young, Muslims used to blow fire crackers if Pakistan win the match. This has changed a lot since than. I would say that Indian Muslim are getting deradicalized except few. This is good for country and better for Muslims.

 

[vsdoc]

All of us who are opposed to Modi are convinced that his role in Gujarat in 2002 was questionable. In that sense, we seem to be in agreement.

Let me clarify further.

There are many, like me, who believe that Gujarat was in the making for quite some time. Over decades in fact.

And the burning was a match on a powder keg.

No Modi or the then PM or the Indian Army was going to stop what was bound to happen after that.

This (the lynching) was per-meditated murder on the other hand.

This time its the Hindus who are fingering. Call a spade a spade.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sangh stands for unity of all who are loyal to the nation. Sangh supported Abdul kalam as president. Sangh can not support Azam khan and Bukhairi like congress does. Muslims need to stop looking at arebia to know what is real Islam. Indian Muslims has a sufi philosophy at its core which emerged from Hinduism. India has given Muslims a lot. They need to redujust themself in line with nationalism and it is happening. I remember, when I was young, Muslims used to blow fire crackers if Pakistan win the match. This has changed a lot since than. I would say that Indian Muslim are getting deradicalized except few. This is good for country and better for Muslims.

Balls it does.

It is the most hideous, bigoted, divisive body in our country. Its traditions have been hostile to our independence movement. Its leaders were lackeys of the British and offered to sell their body and soul to be released from prison. Their obsession with Muslims is based on their obsession with keeping their caste-based superiority alive. They have single-handedly taken the Congress' cynical exploitation of Muslim fear and created a counterpart Hindu fear which is totally unnecessary. To the extent of blowing up innocent people so that Muslims would be feared and hated. To the extent that they attacked an Indian Railways train and killed numerous people, largely Muslims, simply to fan a fear psychosis.

They are bad for the country and worse for minorities - the Muslims today, the Christians tomorrow, the Sikhs the day after, and each scheduled and programmed to be squeezed out of existence.

@Joe Shearer @scorpionx @SarthakGanguly Do you think the lack of tolerance and hardening of anti Islamic stand we see among so many of Hindus today is irreversible and something which was inevitable?

Consider our hinterlands - The hate is spreading and polarization is happening at a frightening speed through interpersonal internet mediums like Whatsapp - the kind of videos and posts which are proliferating would put Goebbels's propaganda to shame. These videos are masterfully and prodigiously made suggesting a professional set up with a long term agenda. In response same strategy is being followed by Muslim groups resulting in clear cut formation of camps some of them armed.

Present Govt may have just acted like a quickening agent but the question remains is India too heterogeneous a country to exist in it's current shape?

The counter point is India has resilience to bounce back as we did in case of Sikh movements - what seemed at one point of time a serious threat to Indian unity has mostly been eradicated but it can be argued that differences between Hindus and Muslims have a much stronger foundation than Hindu - Sikh one which was instigated by a singular figure.

Regards

This needs a serious answer, but I am sceptical about any positive role to be played by @SarthakGanguly . Even the veneer of responsibility that he displayed has been eroded. What will he and I do on the same thread?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Let me clarify further.

There are many, like me, who believe that Gujarat was in the making for quite some time. Over decades in fact.

And the burning was a match on a powder keg.

No Modi or the then PM or the Indian Army was going to stop what was bound to happen after that.

This (the lynching) was per-meditated murder on the other hand.

This time its the Hindus who are fingering. Call a spade a spade.

Sensibly put, although I am not entirely with you about Godhra/ Gujarat.

 

[vsdoc]

Sensibly put, although I am not entirely with you about Godhra/ Gujarat.

I do not hold Gujarat against Modi at all.

Never did.

I will stop short of saying they (the Muslims) asked for it.

And you know this from our private conversations.

Am a brutally fair person. Politically incorrect a label worn proudly on my sleeves.

I can afford to be seeing as I do not count in an India riven by identity politics.

As a people we are already near dead. Who can kill us further?

Cheers, Doc