Hindus in Chhattisgarh take oath to boycott Muslim businesses, refuse Muslim tenants, and profile all Muslims

[Longhorn]

I agree with you that the Muslims of India need to stand up for their rights.

As for those Muslims in India who badmouth Pakistan, they are idiots basically. At least we are free, our religion (Islam) is respected, and we have nuclear weapons.

Can you beat that?

In fact I feel sorry for the Muslim community in India.
Essentially they are treated as shit on their (the hindu's) shoe.

Corrected for you.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Jihad is a must in India. . Time for jihad has come! If Indian Muslims don’t start in jihad in India then soon india will completely exterminate them through various means.

No need of jihad. Population of Indian Muslim already growing with Rapid pace. It will soon become Muslim majority country. Look the following thread below

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/popu...-asks-hindus-to-produce-more-children.457646/

 

[Maula Jatt]

No need of jihad. Population of Indian Muslim already growing with Rapid pace. It will soon become Muslim majority country. Look the following thread below

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/popu...-asks-hindus-to-produce-more-children.457646/

Population /sex jihad

 

[MultaniGuy]

Corrected for you.

Haha.lol. I couldn't stop laughing. I saw your correction. You are right. So true.

Even animals (cows) are treated better than Muslims in India.

 

[KedarT]

Patron saint of Lahore Data ganj bakhsh RA and his views on sufi order and what it's supposed to represent
View attachment 807551
This is what Bulleh Shah said another very important Sufi figure who is revered by millions upon millions to this day and his cultural output on our region is unmatched, his status to Punjab is like that of ghalib to Urdu or Shakespeare to English (not due to literary output although he was poet but due to cultural output) - his Spirit was to bring people together through love
His work
View attachment 807552
View attachment 807553
View attachment 807554
View attachment 807555
View attachment 807556
He would even wear this orange attire to bridge gap between the different cammunities
View attachment 807557

When you start hating sufi order and destroying Thier mazaars
At that point you're not even trying to bridge gaps anymore - Thier sole purpose was to bridge gaps between the cammunities, spread Islam through message of peace and love (ofcourse thierll always be bad people among them too just like Thier are bad people among every order)- my forefather converted during Bulleh shah's times

Sufis were always about that inner search of peace you can't call them aggressive people or a hateful philosophy
Infact jihadis (not philosophy if jihad but more like extremists like ISIS etc) killed and hate sufi order more than they hate any non Muslim
They themselves are victims but you're destroying Thier mazaars and calling them ISIS type "jihadis"
You have gone mad in hatred, this is no way to live this life

I like this song which is based on Bullel Shah's potery.

my forefather converted during Bulleh shah's times

If Bullel Shah didn't believe in any religion, how can you say that the conversion happened due to him?

Also, it's good to hear that Bullel Shah was against Aurangzeb and stood for the Sikhs.

Bulleh Shah, the daring secularist!

In the times when the whole world is going through an era of hatred, intolerance and extremism and Pakistan seems to be synonymous to all these words, what could be a better tribute to Bulleh Shah…

blindtobounds.blog

His views are quite similar to the philosophy given in the Upanishads btw. You guys should keep him in the highest regard as I'm sure you are doing.

 

[Rafi]

I like this song which is based on Bullel Shah's potery.

If Bullel Shah didn't believe in any religion, how can you say that the conversion happened due to him?

Also, it's good to hear that Bullel Shah was against Aurangzeb and stood for the Sikhs.

Bulleh Shah, the daring secularist!

In the times when the whole world is going through an era of hatred, intolerance and extremism and Pakistan seems to be synonymous to all these words, what could be a better tribute to Bulleh Shah…

blindtobounds.blog

His views are quite similar to the philosophy given in the Upanishads btw. You guys should keep him in the highest regard as I'm sure you are doing.

Bulleh Shah was a great Muslim Saint, but he was enlightened, he hated oppression, whether from the Afghans, Sikhs or anyone else.

 

[Maula Jatt]

I like this song which is based on Bullel Shah's potery.

If Bullel Shah didn't believe in any religion, how can you say that the conversion happened due to him?

Also, it's good to hear that Bullel Shah was against Aurangzeb and stood for the Sikhs.

Bulleh Shah, the daring secularist!

In the times when the whole world is going through an era of hatred, intolerance and extremism and Pakistan seems to be synonymous to all these words, what could be a better tribute to Bulleh Shah…

blindtobounds.blog

His views are quite similar to the philosophy given in the Upanishads btw. You guys should keep him in the highest regard as I'm sure you are doing.

- you're mixing him with Kabir and his philosophy
Sufis always consider themselves Muslims, but believed in loving God by serving humanity, sufis are actually more into conversions and preaching than anyother sect in Islam,
(I know my personal thing because my family have written down Thier stories for many years and it's passing down from generation to generation but I don't really want to discuss my thing too much but more of an overall philosophy)

who said he was against religion? This is what @313ghazi is saying they were preachers of Islam, but had a different way of doing it than others, he was educated in a madrasa and his last prayers were performed by a leading isalmic scholar of his area, so don't think he was against religion quite to the contrary

When he talked about bringing people together and his poem that may sound like he doesn't believe in a religion what he actually means is that as gods children religion shouldn't be used for conflict, divisions cause god loves nothing more than his creation to hurt the creation or needlessly fight with something he loves is a bigger sin than anything else in the world
There's a Urdu word for it haqooq ul ibad (duty to humanity and it's rights) are way more important in eyes of God than haqooq ul Allah (duties to God), humanity first approach
So he is saying that there's no use of any religion when you forget your duties and responsibilities to humanity even if you fulfill your duties to God - it'll mean nothing in God's eyes if you're committing greater sins of forgetting rights of humanity
(not that there's no use of "religion" but that there's no use of relgion when it causes conflicts, bloodshed as in God's eyes you lost your way when you used his message to harm humanity something he loves and cares for dearly) - his poetry is deeper as kaafis (style of poetry in Indus) on face value sound weird butt mean something deeper

in this he is envisioning competition of dog to his Human master and Human to his master-god
and says that dogs always win the competition in loyalty compared to a Human even if he stays up all night and prays

here he is criticizing and lementing humans for not loving God (master) compared to a dog who is more loyal to his master
So he was a Muslim preacher and saint who valued humanity and bringing people together, we just need to not take his poetry at face value but think a little deeper at his message (like everyother poetry in the world)


@cocomo please add your thaughts too as you know a bit about Sufi islam afaik

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.

I would add to it. Rather, "encourage it".

 

[Paitoo]

Some Indians have totally lost it. Like a drunkard moving through life one night brawl at a time, these idiots have no idea of the consequences of their actions. I don't think they care either. They don't really want to see a strong Hindu rashtra as they claim. They just want to be the local bullies.

 

[Maula Jatt]

You're Pakistani but don't know who Bulleh Shah is? You think his teachings were about pacifism and leaving Islam to walk a random path?

You my friend need to study a little bit. The man was an Islamic scholar, he spent his life promoting Islam through his example, he lived the sunnah.

What you read is poetry, surely you understand the nature of poetry? It's the artistic use of words to tell a story or send a message. To understand poetry you must reflect on it, not read it literally.

The verses above are a reference to the Islamic concept of Haqooq Ul Allah and Haqooq Ul Ibaad.

Exactly my thaughts... that's why I called him a false flagger

 

[KedarT]

Sufis always consider themselves Muslims, but believed in loving God by serving humanity, sufis are actually more into conversions and preaching than anyother sect in Islam,

Hmm.

in this he is envisioning competition of dog to his Human master and Human to his master-god
and says that dogs always win the competition in loyalty compared to a Human even if he stays up all night and prays

here he is criticizing and lementing humans for not loving God (master) compared to a dog who is more loyal to his master
So he was a Muslim preacher and saint who valued humanity and bringing people together, we just need to not take his poetry at face value but think a little deeper at his message (like everyother poetry in the world)

Dude, he's literally taking a shot at the fake pious people and asking what's the difference between the dogs and the pious people lol. That's sarcasm man.

who said he was against religion? This is what @313ghazi is saying they were preachers of Islam, but had a different way of doing it than others, he was educated in a madrasa and his last prayers were performed by a leading isalmic scholar of his area, so don't think he was against religion quite to the contrary

When he talked about bringing people together and his poem that may sound like he doesn't believe in a religion what he actually means is that as gods children religion shouldn't be used for conflict, divisions cause god loves nothing more than his creation to hurt the creation or needlessly fight with something he loves is a bigger sin than anything else in the world
There's a Urdu word for it haqooq ul ibad (duty to humanity and it's rights) are way more important in eyes of God than haqooq ul Allah (duties to God), humanity first approach
So he is saying that there's no use of any religion when you forget your duties and responsibilities to humanity even if you fulfill your duties to God - it'll mean nothing in God's eyes if you're committing greater sins of forgetting rights of humanity
(not that there's no use of "religion" but that there's no use of relgion when it causes conflicts, bloodshed as in God's eyes you lost your way when you used his message to harm humanity something he loves and cares for dearly) - his poetry is deeper as kaafis (style of poetry in Indus) on face value sound weird butt mean something deeper

I mean, what he has written is clear and straightforward. In fact, he was called a heretic by hardcore Islamists. So basically you are just telling me one part of the story.
"A dargah was built over his grave. He was declared non-Muslim by a few literalist "Mullah" of Kasur and they had claimed it was prohibited to offer the funeral prayer of Bulleh Shah due to Kufr allegations put on him by extremists. His funeral prayer was led by Qazi Hafiz Syed Zahid Hamdani, a great religious personality of Kasur.[4]"

I see that in the Islamic world a lot, you say something which even goes slightly contrary to the religion and you are labelled a 'heretic' and also that people are always discussing about what 'true' Islam is which is funny many times. Subcontinental Muslims especially behave like ' Shah se zyada shah ke wafadar' and they seem to like that behavior.

Regardless, I would expect Islamists to claim him as 'one of them', that's completely natural but I don't want to get into a religious debate over here. If there was some other forum, we would've chatted more and I would also have loved to know more but sadly this isn't the appropriate place.

(I know my personal thing because my family have written down Thier stories for many years and it's passing down from generation to generation but I don't really want to discuss my thing too much but more of an overall philosophy)

You don't need to, this is just a random anonymous forum.


BUT, if what you say is true, then my views on him changes and not in a positive way.

 

[Maula Jatt]

Hmm.


Dude, he's literally taking a shot at the fake pious people and asking what's the difference between the dogs and the pious people lol. That's sarcasm man.


I mean, what he has written is clear and straightforward. In fact, he was called a heretic by hardcore Islamists. So basically you are just telling me one part of the story.
"A dargah was built over his grave. He was declared non-Muslim by a few literalist "Mullah" of Kasur and they had claimed it was prohibited to offer the funeral prayer of Bulleh Shah due to Kufr allegations put on him by extremists. His funeral prayer was led by Qazi Hafiz Syed Zahid Hamdani, a great religious personality of Kasur.[4]"

I see that in the Islamic world a lot, you say something which even goes slightly contrary to the religion and you are labelled a 'heretic' and also that people are always discussing about what 'true' Islam is which is funny many times. Subcontinental Muslims especially behave like ' Shah se zyada shah ke wafadar'.

Regardless, I would expect Islamists to claim him as 'one of them', that's completely natural but I don't want to get into a religious debate over here. If there was some other forum, we would've chatted more and I would also have loved to know more but sadly this isn't the appropriate place.

You don't need to, this is just a random anonymous forum.


BUT, if what you say is true, then my views on him changes and not in a positive way.

Your views are your views, he was not Thier to please people, he was a Muslim respected by many people because of his teachings, and Sufi saints are known for preaching people about islam, his teacher was a famous islamic preacher, scholar with multiple written works and he followed and preached this scholars teachings throughout his life- so in that sense he was a madrasa educated from a scholarly Sufi preacher- there's no question of him being not a Muslim or some in between thing preaching athiesm in form of humanism- yes humanism in some ways but humanism within Islam, and how it is in the Islamic framework (this is why he is called a Sufi saint- if he was preaching something other than Sufi Islam he wouldn't be called that)
What he was against was bad practices of clergy (that's why the declaration of non-muslim by those same people) or the larger conflict in the name of religion, Sikh killing Muslims, Muslims killing some other people etc etc
So his efforts to reduce that tension or conflict may "sound" off or him preaching something different but that was poetry

He was first and foremost a Sufi religious preacher (his primary work) whose poetry became famous but his first job/focus wasn't on litterery side but on the preaching or religion side so if that makes him bad, preaching religion just like every Sufi preacher that ever existed (that's why they're called Sufis it's a preaching (to both (Muslim/non Muslim) and spreading of Islam focused sect- they won't call you revered Sufi figure if you're doing something other than preaching )

So if being a religion focused sufi preacher makes him bad than I disagree his work/actions speaks for itself

Dude stood up to the ruler of the time to support a persecuted non-muslim movement, when saints were also a target, would write poetry to ease religious tensions,
I mean what's the negative part in this character (copy paste)

(When Aurangzeb banned the music and dance, declaring it as haram in Islam–Bulleh Shah, following instructions from his teacher, defiantly went from village to village in Punjab, singing and dancing to his Kafis.

As Aurangzeb beheaded Guru Tegh Bahadur, Bulleh Shah dared to call the slain Sikh leader as Ghazi, a religious warrio

” Kitay Tegh Bahadur Ghazi hay

Bulleh Shah hailed the revolutionary spirit of Guru Gobind Singh, calling him a ‘protector’ of those who believed in right to follow their religious belief. )”
when the Sikh gurus son started killing random Muslims in the dozens to avenge his father he went and stopped him

The "Neither Hindu nor Muslim,
Sacrificing pride, let us sit together" poem was not meant to literally mean they are same thing or there's no relgios lines and are same thing
It was in the context of discrimination that was happening in society at the time due to religios differences, it was in context that we are humans first and foremost

And yes your interpretation of what he meant is the mainstream interpretation, and is taught in the mainstream that it was comparison of fake pious people and dogs - so from your perspective you're correct
But the people who taught me of his work and what I feel/ my interpretation of that particular poem - I feel or message I took was loyalty and devotional love to God and it's comparison to relationship of dog and his master
So from mainstream I know what they say but I personally feel something different about it (or I was taught differently and I agree with it)

I think people have a misconsaption of a religious preacher especially an islamic one so they don't look at him as a preacher just a random poet eventhough his primary focus was preaching but this was how Sufis have preached for centeries by criticizing clergy, bad cultural practices and than showing the true message (what they believe to be true) to both Orthodox Muslims and non-muslims
But thier (Sufi)end goal is preaching of Islam and it's humanist values (people/critics can say there are none but this is what Sufi relgious preacher is trying to teach and make em understand to both orthodox Muslim and non-muslims)

 

[hussain0216]

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.

I would add to it. Rather, "encourage it".

ISI plan to tear India apart right there

Said it for years, hindutva is our greatest weapon against India

 

[Longhorn]

Hmm.


Dude, he's literally taking a shot at the fake pious people and asking what's the difference between the dogs and the pious people lol. That's sarcasm man.


I mean, what he has written is clear and straightforward. In fact, he was called a heretic by hardcore Islamists. So basically you are just telling me one part of the story.
"A dargah was built over his grave. He was declared non-Muslim by a few literalist "Mullah" of Kasur and they had claimed it was prohibited to offer the funeral prayer of Bulleh Shah due to Kufr allegations put on him by extremists. His funeral prayer was led by Qazi Hafiz Syed Zahid Hamdani, a great religious personality of Kasur.[4]"

I see that in the Islamic world a lot, you say something which even goes slightly contrary to the religion and you are labelled a 'heretic' and also that people are always discussing about what 'true' Islam is which is funny many times. Subcontinental Muslims especially behave like ' Shah se zyada shah ke wafadar' and they seem to like that behavior.

Regardless, I would expect Islamists to claim him as 'one of them', that's completely natural but I don't want to get into a religious debate over here. If there was some other forum, we would've chatted more and I would also have loved to know more but sadly this isn't the appropriate place.

You don't need to, this is just a random anonymous forum.


BUT, if what you say is true, then my views on him changes and not in a positive way.

The Sufis are the true Muslims. They cut through the dogma and rhetoric of the Mullah classes and reveal and preach the true essence of Islam.
More's the pity that people nowadays prefer the hateful and insular rhetoric of the Mullahs to the gentle and inclusive message of the Sufis.

 

[PakFactor]

Your views are your views, he was not Thier to please people, he was a Muslim respected by many people because of his teachings, and Sufi saints are known for preaching people about islam, his teacher was a famous islamic preacher, scholar with multiple written works and he followed and preached this scholars teachings throughout his life- so in that sense he was a madrasa educated from a scholarly Sufi preacher- there's no question of him being not a Muslim or some in between thing preaching athiesm in form of humanism- yes humanism in some ways but humanism within Islam, and how it is in the Islamic framework (this is why he is called a Sufi saint- if he was preaching something other than Sufi Islam he wouldn't be called that)
What he was against was bad practices of clergy (that's why the declaration of non-muslim by those same people) or the larger conflict in the name of religion, Sikh killing Muslims, Muslims killing some other people etc etc
So his efforts to reduce that tension or conflict may "sound" off or him preaching something different but that was poetry

He was first and foremost a Sufi religious preacher (his primary work) whose poetry became famous but his first job/focus wasn't on litterery side but on the preaching or religion side so if that makes him bad, preaching religion just like every Sufi preacher that ever existed (that's why they're called Sufis it's a preaching (to both (Muslim/non Muslim) and spreading of Islam focused sect- they won't call you revered Sufi figure if you're doing something other than preaching )

So if being a religion focused sufi preacher makes him bad than I disagree his work/actions speaks for itself

Dude stood up to the ruler of the time to support a persecuted non-muslim movement, when saints were also a target, would write poetry to ease religious tensions,
I mean what's the negative part in this character (copy paste)

(When Aurangzeb banned the music and dance, declaring it as haram in Islam–Bulleh Shah, following instructions from his teacher, defiantly went from village to village in Punjab, singing and dancing to his Kafis.

As Aurangzeb beheaded Guru Tegh Bahadur, Bulleh Shah dared to call the slain Sikh leader as Ghazi, a religious warrio

” Kitay Tegh Bahadur Ghazi hay

Bulleh Shah hailed the revolutionary spirit of Guru Gobind Singh, calling him a ‘protector’ of those who believed in right to follow their religious belief. )”
when the Sikh gurus son started killing random Muslims in the dozens to avenge his father he went and stopped him

The "Neither Hindu nor Muslim,
Sacrificing pride, let us sit together" poem was not meant to literally mean they are same thing or there's no relgios lines and are same thing
It was in the context of discrimination that was happening in society at the time due to religios differences, it was in context that we are humans first and foremost

And yes your interpretation of what he meant is the mainstream interpretation, and is taught in the mainstream that it was comparison of fake pious people and dogs - so from your perspective you're correct
But the people who taught me of his work and what I feel/ my interpretation of that particular poem - I feel or message I took was loyalty and devotional love to God and it's comparison to relationship of dog and his master
So from mainstream I know what they say but I personally feel something different about it (or I was taught differently and I agree with it)

I think people have a misconsaption of a religious preacher especially an islamic one so they don't look at him as a preacher just a random poet eventhough his primary focus was preaching but this was how Sufis have preached for centeries by criticizing clergy, bad cultural practices and than showing the true message (what they believe to be true) to both Orthodox Muslims and non-muslims
But thier (Sufi)end goal is preaching of Islam and it's humanist values (people/critics can say there are none but this is what Sufi relgious preacher is trying to teach and make em understand to both orthodox Muslim and non-muslims)

Happy to see there are Muslims who understand the meanings of Bulleh Shah's words --- I was getting depressed and thought we've lost our way.