Hindus fight to get justice for Muslims in Gujarat riots: The Great untold

[Joe Shearer]

The Muslim as BJP supporter in Gujarat

Dont super-impose what those Bihari,UP, Daccani Muslims (primarily the Urdu speaking ones) think of Modi on what the Gujrati Muslims think of Modi.

For those Bihari,UP,Daccani muslims it is yet another chance to lash out in the name of minority persecution and keep the victim mentality in the muslims strong so that their own political future is secure.

We all saw what the Bihari/UP elite did to the Gujarati Vastanvi when praised Modi genuinely.

People who were allegedly directly affected have moved on. Its times the others moved on too.

Disingenuous in the extreme. Ask ANY Gujarati Muslim in seclusion and privacy and you will hear the inner feelings.

Perverts, these blokes. For some strange reason, they just don't get that knocking off a few hundred men, women and children is actually good for society.

 

[KS]

I don't want to get into specifics. These are not my friends and I don't know them personally. These people are shrewd businessmen and know when to keep their mouth shut; they show respect because of his position, but no one has forgotten what happened in 2002 and the complicity of the state apparatus.

I agree No one (emphasis on 'no one') has forgotten what happened in 2002. But not forgetting does not mean , not moving on. Two are mutually exclusive.

For example I too have not forgotten what happened to the Kashmiri Pandits, how the State just washed off their hands to an entire community that was ethnically cleansed from its home.. but what can be done ? They have moved on and so have others.

Regarding the complicity of the state apparatus, the jury is still out on that and let's hold our horses.

 

[Neuro]

Here many Indians talking/writing like stupid . There are Indians dying/died in many clashes in India but nobody giving importance them coz they are hindus. Have you know hw many of them died in caste clashes throughout India? have u counted hw many died in language protests? do you have records about Naga tribal clashes? damn. But people expecting muslims should not be victim of any riots in India.... wat a logic? muslims aren't special species in India try 2 understand the fact.

 

[KS]

Disingenuous in the extreme. Ask ANY Gujarati Muslim in seclusion and privacy and you will hear the inner feelings.

Perverts, these blokes. For some strange reason, they just don't get that knocking off a few hundred men, women and children is actually good for society.

Yeah anything that does not fit the frame is false, propaganda and disingenuous.

Is it in this nature of the site itself that even Indians visiting it turn conspiracy theorists ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

'Sir' I say humbly..Deal with it -- with a capital D. We have one vote with each of us and they are not subject to your whims and fancies. As I said you may be priviledged enough to be stuck on a single issue and worry about problems elsewhere that have no direct bearing on your day to day life, but the middle class and lower class have no time for that. They are concerned about one and only themselves and who can fault them for that ? And they are not the 'thin' layer you think them to be.

Every day people say something against Modi, whether it is right or wrong, his popularity rises. That the genius' have not been able to figure out till now takes the icing on the cake.

Let me give you a trade tip - the only way to defeat Modi is to suffocate the publicity oxygen that people like you shower on him. Sure it is negative publicity, but as they, negative publicity is the best publicity.

I am happy to deal with our one-citizen one-vote situation. That is what distinguishes our way of doing things. That is what reversed the 'correction' of history and of text-books that Ticker quite mistakenly keeps talking about. It is precisely this which gives me a cheerful feeling. The BJP and the Congress have both outlived thir utility, and are both in advanced stages of decay. Those who are clinging on to these are clinging on to rotting corpses.

It is not about publicity. Publicity and sloganeering and film-flam don't win elections. This is something that the BJP haw never quite understood, whether in its monstrous Ram Janmabhoomi campaign or with Shining India. The other set of frauds have found their vote banks and their poll-rigging stopped by increasingly aware electorates and tougher election commissioners.

So don't worry. It is the Parivar that will have to live with it. And guess what? They can't,because they never figured out democracy anyway.

 

[IND151]

double post

 

[Developereo]

Here many Indians talking/writing like stupid . There are Indians dying/died in many clashes in India but nobody giving importance them coz they are hindus. Have you know hw many of them died in caste clashes throughout India? have u counted hw many died in language protests? do you have records about Naga tribal clashes? damn. But people expecting muslims should not be victim of any riots in India.... wat a logic? muslims aren't special species in India try 2 understand the fact.

You miss the point.

The Gujarat riots were special because census data was used to identify Muslim houses; police escorted rampaging mobs to their targets and refused to intervene while victims were slaughtered in front of them.

I should hope that this is not the norm in India and this riot stands out as an aberration in terms of official complicity.

Normally. in such extreme lapses of order, the chief executive is held accountable, yet Modi walks free as a 'martyr'.

 

[IND151]

===================

Going on a dedicated witch hunt against Modi by itself and through its proxies - the venerable NGO cottage industry - was the one strategic and tactical mistake the Congress did for which it will pay a political price.

If he was left out he would be just another non-descript BJP leader who does his business within Gujarat and no one outside even giving two hoots to him. How many know who Satyendra Narain Sinha was ? But by going after him in a dedicated political witch hunt they just gave him a larger than life aura and helped him actually cash on the free publicity being offered round the clock. The result he is here now, the prime contender for the PM post in 2014 and no BJP leader even able to raise a word against him.

at bolded part> not necessarily.

Modi may have now larger than life aura-at least for a certain segment of Indian society- but congress strategy ensured that Modi would be seen as anti Muslim and this image would be in psyche of masses for long time; thanks to Congress hold on Media (as UPA is in power since 2004)

the second aim was to reinforce the image of BJP (wrt to babri) as anti Muslim, Hindu fundamentalists; thus mocking that Congress is only savior of Muslims and ensuring bulk votes of Muslims in elections in late 2000s.


if you ask me, this strategy paid well in 2009 elections,though failed in Gujarat where Modi is still in power

 

[Vinod2070]

Unfortunately for us, and fortunately for others, Modi is a shrewd politician. He is riding a wave of martyrdom, even though he hasn't suffered at all for his (in)action in 2002.

I don't think you have a locus standi on this. You are an outsider.

Yes, you may have opinions but don't try to be a party to the issue! We know you have issue when an Indian Muslim is patriotic.

Wow!
You guys really believe that, don't you?

Yes, we believe that because we know that.

Don't think the pillow technology works as well on others as you assume.

Islam says that a Muslim should be a good citizen of the country where they live, so the religious scholars should be encouraged to emphasize that aspect of Islam.

---

The important thing is to address the core concerns before extremists hijack the situation.

But for Indian Muslims you say this!

We notice how you guys have to jump ever higher to prove your loyalty and patriotism.

You are one funny guy.

So, would it be fair for me to say that as you are a Shia and facts on the ground say that Shia are more persecuted and killed in Pakistan than Muslims are in India, you have to "jump ever higher to prove your loyalty and patriotism"?

That you need need to prove your "anti Zionist" credentials more than others because Shiasim is charged with being a Jewish conspiracy to destroy Islam from within?

If yes, why should we give you any credence?

If no, why not?

Don't take everything at face value. I know of some VERY prominent Muslim businessmen in Gujarat who are on Modi's A-list. He treats them with utmost deference because of their economic clout, yet they hate his guts for what he did in 2002.

The Muslims of Gujarat were told in no uncertain terms in 2002 who is boss.

Not all Muslims. Some criminals who used to start annual riots would be more like it.

 

[KS]

I am happy to deal with our one-citizen one-vote situation. That is what distinguishes our way of doing things. That is what reversed the 'correction' of history and of text-books that Ticker quite mistakenly keeps talking about. It is precisely this which gives me a cheerful feeling. The BJP and the Congress have both outlived thir utility, and are both in advanced stages of decay. Those who are clinging on to these are clinging on to rotting corpses.

You are terribly mistaken. Both the Congress and BJP are here to stay.

It is not about publicity. Publicity and sloganeering and film-flam don't win elections. This is something that the BJP haw never quite understood, whether in its monstrous Ram Janmabhoomi campaign or with Shining India. The other set of frauds have found their vote banks and their poll-rigging stopped by increasingly aware electorates and tougher election commissioners.

Ram Janmabhoomi campaign was a slick PR campaign that tapped into massive resentment in the minds of the North Indian Hindu in the after match of the turbulent 80s and enabled them to increase their tally from 2 seats in 84 to form the Govt in '96. And its a pity that you cant recognize that. The RJ campaign was the turning point in BJP's history. It was that movement that won it the support from millions of Hindu supporters in the Hindi heartland.

Anyway coming to the point, I insist, the only reason wy Modi has a such a larger than life persona is because of the 24*7 coverage being afforded to him and he being equally shrewd to turn the tables and utilize them to

So don't worry. It is the Parivar that will have to live with it. And guess what? They can't,because they never figured out democracy anyway.

The Sangh is just a reluctant supporter of Modi and would rather oppose him if they had the capability. It has no other go literally. That Praveen togadia has joined with Keshubhai against Modi must have made that clear. Modi is a one man show. And that adds to his charisma. No dual centers of power, no kitchen cabinets, nothing.

Moreover in a caste ridden society, if Modi is ever to brandish his OBC image cleverly, North Indian hindu OBC votes would easily go to him.

 

[LaBong]

Let me give you a trade tip - the only way to defeat Modi is to suffocate the publicity oxygen that people like you shower on him. Sure it is negative publicity, but as they, negative publicity is the best publicity.

No I think Modi gets elected in Gujrat because he let Hindus to vent their anger after Godhra. Sad as it seems, but true nonetheless.

I'm sure Modi won't be able to win an election in Tamil Nadu or West Bengal.

 

[KS]

You miss the point.

The Gujarat riots were special because census data was used to identify Muslim houses; police escorted rampaging mobs to their targets and refused to intervene while victims were slaughtered in front of them.

And your Gujarat contact told you this too..

Atleast you had the decency to say they used voter lists and did not refer to this.

 

[IND151]

You are terribly mistaken. Both the Congress and BJP are here to stay.




Ram Janmabhoomi campaign was a slick PR campaign that tapped into massive resentment in the minds of the North Indian Hindu in the after match of the turbulent 80s and enabled them to increase their tally from 2 seats in 84 to form the Govt in '96. And its a pity that you cant recognize that. The RJ campaign was the turning point in BJP's history. It was that movement that won it the support from millions of Hindu supporters in the Hindi heartland.

Anyway coming to the point, I insist, the only reason wy Modi has a such a larger than life persona is because of the 24*7 coverage being afforded to him and he being equally shrewd to turn the tables and utilize them to



The Sangh is just a reluctant supporter of Modi and would rather oppose him if they had the capability. It has no other go literally. That Praveen togadia has joined with Keshubhai against Modi must have made that clear. Modi is a one man show. And that adds to his charisma. No dual centers of power, no kitchen cabinets, nothing.

Moreover in a caste ridden society, if Modi is ever to brandish his OBC image cleverly, North Indian hindu OBC votes would easily go to him.

kindly elaborate bolded part

 

[KS]

No I think Modi gets elected in Gujrat because he let Hindus to vent their anger after Godhra. Sad as it seems, but true nonetheless.

You did not get the point . He may have won in 2002 due to the riots. But he would have been just another CM in just another state. Not the prime contendor to the PM post he is now, head and shoulder above all. The prime credit to making Narendra Modi the man goes to our media, the NGOs and ofcourrse the Congress*. And ofcourse I will repeat what I said earlier, if in a country where the Hindu muslim relationship is always a bit shaky and one fine day the minority decides to do a very bloody provocation there will be a backlash. There was backlash on Direct action day. There was backlash on during partition.


* The congress seems to have realised that of late. That is why the GPCC has refrained from commenting on the convictions and is instead focussed on distributing free lands and houses

I'm sure Modi won't be able to win an election in Tamil Nadu or West Bengal.

West Bengal I think not...I dont think they are politically aware to elect capable people. But Modi does have a real chance in TN, if he learns Tamil.

 

[IND151]

salute to those Hindus,jains, Sikhs, Christians etc.who fought to get justice Muslims in Gujarat riots