Hindus fight to get justice for Muslims in Gujarat riots: The Great untold

[Joe Shearer]

Life imprisonment for both of them i say is like mild punishment a slap on the wrist.Had i been the judge i would have ordered their public lynching.

Fortunately for all of us, you are not an Indian judge. She has given her reasons for not awarding the death sentence in very clear and rational terms.

This is a very good time for amateurs of jurisprudence to leave our judicial system to do its work, and not second-guess it.

 

[KS]

Having said that, your statement about your Muslim friends and acquaintances reads very strangely. Are they really for armed mobs killing them, and butchering their women and children?

Are you serious?

The Muslim as BJP supporter in Gujarat

Dont super-impose what those Bihari,UP, Daccani Muslims (primarily the Urdu speaking ones) think of Modi on what the Gujrati Muslims think of Modi.

For those Bihari,UP,Daccani muslims it is yet another chance to lash out in the name of minority persecution and keep the victim mentality in the muslims strong so that their own political future is secure.

We all saw what the Bihari/UP elite did to the Gujarati Vastanvi when praised Modi genuinely.

People who were allegedly directly affected have moved on. Its times the others moved on too.

 

[Developereo]

Even congress has realised the more they attack modi the more his popularity grows
Congress goes mum on Narendra Modi, looks to tie him down to state issues - TOI Mobile | The Times of India Mobile Site

Unfortunately for us, and fortunately for others, Modi is a shrewd politician. He is riding a wave of martyrdom, even though he hasn't suffered at all for his (in)action in 2002.

 

[Joe Shearer]

BS that hag Teesta Setalvad has been charge-sheeted for tutoring and producing fake witnesses before the court.

As longs you are being touchy about what people call you, it might be a brilliant idea to refrain from coarse personal attacks on those who have served the republic far more than you have, or will.

Your views are your own, and you are free to hold them, however obnoxious they are. When they lead you to violent acts against other citizens, or to break the law in pursuing your pet hates, you are liable to prosecution. Nobody will impose their views on you, as you quaintly imply. But just as you have the right to hold certain views, and to state them in public, so do othrs have the right to hold othr views, some opposed to yours, perhaps, and to express them.

That is not fascism.

That is free speech.

It is understandable that your political affiliation makes you uncomfortable with the concept.

 

[faizahmad]

Please do not derail the thread by posting (2014 MODI for PM) a seperate thread already exist on this topic . i have many gujrathi Muslim friends Who are happy under the leadership of modi . this thread brings a message of unity and support for each other not as hindus helped muslims or muslims help hindus ----- but an Indian helps another Indian.

 

[Joe Shearer]

What is perverted in that ? I dont even turn my eyes in her direction.

She is fake and I stand by that. A person who has been found to be guilty of tutoring witnessnes and producing them in court on a political witch hunt is hardly genuine or deserves any respect. She is just another criminal whose antics are brushed aside because her target of ire is Modi.

And its also true aside from the CCC and 'secular' media no one attaches any importance to her. "The respect she commands all over the country is unimaginable". My rear. She is a nobody who is propped by political actors to act as a proxy in their witch hunt.

It is surprising that someone whom you dismiss with such indifference occupies such a large portion of your public expressions.

'Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much!'

 

[Developereo]

People who were allegedly directly affected have moved on. Its times the others moved on too.

Don't take everything at face value. I know of some VERY prominent Muslim businessmen in Gujarat who are on Modi's A-list. He treats them with utmost deference because of their economic clout, yet they hate his guts for what he did in 2002.

The Muslims of Gujarat were told in no uncertain terms in 2002 who is boss.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Wow!
You guys really believe that, don't you?

To be honest, some of you do give us that impression*. I can name four of the canaille straight up, but shan't. It is more important to spread the message that there is an alternative to war, or to near-war.

* have you read post #33? If you were in my shoes, how would you react?

 

[Android]

Please do not derail the thread by posting (2014 MODI for PM) a seperate thread already exist on this topic . i have many gujrathi Muslim friends Who are happy under the leadership of modi . this thread brings a message of unity and support for each other not as hindus helped muslims or muslims help hindus ----- but an Indian helps another Indian.

every thread on modi suffers the same fate pakistanis try to derail it by bringing 2002 riots while indians do it by projecting him as our next pm
true story

 

[KS]

As longs you are being touchy about what people call you, it might be a brilliant idea to refrain from coarse personal attacks on those who have served the republic far more than you have, or will.

Are you Teesta Setalvad ? Why are you being so touchy ? Or is it only you are allowed to give epithets like 'mass murderer', 'communal bigot' to people and if others do that is blasphemy ?

She is a two bit criminal who is charge sheeted for perjury and hence there will be no respect from my side.

Your views are your own, and you are free to hold them, however obnoxious they are. When they lead you to violent acts against other citizens, or to break the law in pursuing your pet hates, you are liable to prosecution. Nobody will impose their views on you, as you quaintly imply. But just as you have the right to hold certain views, and to state them in public, so do othrs have the right to hold othr views, some opposed to yours, perhaps, and to express them.

Please practise what you preach and desist from giving out certificates to people or judging them online, the moment they refuse to toe your line, "honorary Sir".

It is understandable that your political affiliation makes you uncomfortable with the concept.

So we are again back to square one. After the talk about Free Speech, judging people again.

Don't take everything at face value. I know of some VERY prominent Muslim businessmen in Gujarat who are on Modi's A-list. He treats them with utmost deference because of their economic clout, yet they hate his guts for what he did in 2002.

Dude bring in something credible, not the mera mitr, mera kabootar kinda anecdotes. You think I lack in creativity to create a Muslim friend in Gujarat ?

The Muslims of Gujarat were told in no uncertain terms in 2002 who is boss.

That is your interpretation. My take - they just started voting for the man who did not believe in fake sloganeering but actually did something.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Yaar.....Go and see the latest NDTV poll specially the Questions who would you like as the next Prime Minister and would you accept Modi as your prime Minister.

The fact is Modi enjoys a massive popularity among the urban lower middle class/middle class and that is a fact. They are not those coffee sipping jholla walas who might keep shedding crocodile tears for one-in-a-long-list of communal riots. They want good governance, 24*7 electricity, good roads, basic services and will vote for the anyone who delivers them. Calling them 'rabid,rancid, social misfits' for that is totally unwarranted. Those so called misfits may have equally choicy adjectives for others.



That means I will vote for BJP. Do I need to explain everything.

I am glad that you mentioned this study and this group.

They happen to have a sense of entitlement which is completely arbitrary. The country and its systems and processes are not devised purely for them. They are not entitled to upset the constitution and impose their own, based on the flimsy support of that thin layer of society that they constitute. There are other, graver problems, the problem of exclusion instead of inclusion, for instance. How do you expect a country to brush these under the carpet and get on to the higher things of life, like not having to bribe a petty official to get to the head of the queue?

The problems they are exercised about are the problems of a pampered handful of the urban upwardly mobile. How will addressing their problems bring in growth, increase the possibilities of economic survival, bring in those who have taken to arms to preserve their threatened identity and their environment and habitat, correct the repression of two thousand years of social sanction?

Modi may seem like a solution to these misfits, far less in tune with the needs of the country that they are. He is really the problem, the fundamental divider and repressive force that unleashes hugely negative forces.

 

[KS]

===================

Going on a dedicated witch hunt against Modi by itself and through its proxies - the venerable NGO cottage industry - was the one strategic and tactical mistake the Congress did for which it will pay a political price.

If he was left out he would be just another non-descript BJP leader who does his business within Gujarat and no one outside even giving two hoots to him. How many know who Satyendra Narain Sinha was ? But by going after him in a dedicated political witch hunt they just gave him a larger than life aura and helped him actually cash on the free publicity being offered round the clock. The result he is here now, the prime contender for the PM post in 2014 and no BJP leader even able to raise a word against him.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Fine. Don't move on. That is your personal choice. But dont fault those who have moved on. Not all are privileged to be able to be keep being stuck in something that happened 10 years ago and still lead a comfortable life. They have their present lives to worry about.

Don't worry about that: all of us have to scrabble for a living. Some of us just happen to be less hypocritical than others, even while we scrabble, that's all. For instance, we don't scream in shrill tones when people mention Gujarat, and point to Delhi 84, but then switch when there are convictions in Gujarat, and insist that we move on.

 

[Developereo]

* have you read post #33? If you were in my shoes, how would you react?

The 'media stunt' comment? I would agree with you that it trivializes the hard work and achievements of the activists fighting for justice.

Dude bring in something credible, not the mera mitr, mera kabootar kinda anecdotes. You think I lack in creativity to create a Muslim friend in Gujarat ?

I don't want to get into specifics. These are not my friends and I don't know them personally. They are proudly and staunchly Indian in every respect. However, they are also shrewd businessmen and know when to keep their mouth shut; they show respect because of his position, but no one has forgotten what happened in 2002 and the complicity of the state apparatus.

 

[KS]

I am glad that you mentioned this study and this group.

They happen to have a sense of entitlement which is completely arbitrary. The country and its systems and processes are not devised purely for them. They are not entitled to upset the constitution and impose their own, based on the flimsy support of that thin layer of society that they constitute. There are other, graver problems, the problem of exclusion instead of inclusion, for instance. How do you expect a country to brush these under the carpet and get on to the higher things of life, like not having to bribe a petty official to get to the head of the queue?

The problems they are exercised about are the problems of a pampered handful of the urban upwardly mobile. How will addressing their problems bring in growth, increase the possibilities of economic survival, bring in those who have taken to arms to preserve their threatened identity and their environment and habitat, correct the repression of two thousand years of social sanction?

Modi may seem like a solution to these misfits, far less in tune with the needs of the country that they are. He is really the problem, the fundamental divider and repressive force that unleashes hugely negative forces.

'Sir' I say humbly..Deal with it -- with a capital D. We have one vote with each of us and they are not subject to your whims and fancies. As I said you may be priviledged enough to be stuck on a single issue and worry about problems elsewhere that have no direct bearing on your day to day life, but the middle class and lower class have no time for that. They are concerned about one and only themselves and who can fault them for that ? And they are not the 'thin' layer you think them to be.

Every day people say something against Modi, whether it is right or wrong, his popularity rises. That the genius' have not been able to figure out till now takes the icing on the cake.

Let me give you a trade tip - the only way to defeat Modi is to suffocate the publicity oxygen that people like you shower on him. Sure it is negative publicity, but as they, negative publicity is the best publicity.