Hindi and Urdu words learning thread.

[Tacit Wave]

I love this thread....I have always liked urdu and want to learn more of it..

that is interesting...both of these are pure sanskrit words..are there any other words in urdu for water??

yes "aab". Like aab-e-zam zam. it's Persian word

 

[dravidianhero]

is it mosam or mausam?we write and pronounce it as mausam in hindi

 

[DRaisinHerald]

that is interesting...both of these are pure sanskrit words..are there any other words in urdu for water??

Well yes, Urdu contains a fair amount of Sanskrit derived words and other Indic-origin words, naturally
We do use aab to mean water as well as Tacit Wave pointed out, although it might be of Persian origin and not Arabic.

is it mosam or mausam?we write and pronounce it as mausam in hindi

Yeah, au = open 'o' sound

I wrote mosam because because some people tend to see the word mausam and think it's pronounced ma-u-sam

 

[dravidianhero]

then why do we get to read and write it as mausam in our news channels and text books?

i have been learning to read and write urdu script for the past 12 years.i have observed books and news papers drop zabars zers and peshs?does everyone read words correctly even without them?a person may read a word like kithaab without zer but what about words which are less frequently used?

one more doubt is i observed pakistanis,indian punjabis and muslims having a problem with pronunciation of certain words like praveen(these ppl pronounce it as parveen),sravan as sarvan,problem as parblem,school as ischool,snake as isnake etc etc.why do they do so?do arabic and persian not have such sounds?is it because of the influence of those languages on their pronunciation?(i have even heard hindu north indians pronouncing them like tht)

 

[DRaisinHerald]

then why do we get to read and write it as mausam in our news channels and text books?

Lol, it's mostly just a trend; like writing aur instead of or to mean and. In this case I would prefer the aur spelling because I don't want it to get confused with the English or.

i have been learning to read and write urdu script for the past 12 years.i have observed books and news papers drop zabars zers and peshs?does everyone read words correctly even without them?a person may read a word like kithaab without zer but what about words which are less frequently used?

You're from Hyderabad, but given the fact your name is "dravidianhero" I'm guessing you speak Telugu or something at home and not Urdu. Well, to put it very simply, yes; it's possible to read words without the diacritics (zabar, zer and pesh) and get the pronounciation completely right.

Reason 1) Unlike Arabic, which only represents 3 out of 6 vowels it has usually, even then only occasionally, Urdu represents most of it's vowels through semi-vowel-semi-consonant letters (letters which act as both consonants and vowels) and they are vao, chhoti, barhi yeh and alif.

In this case the vao letter (و) represents the o/u sounds, alif (ا) represents the a sound.
The chhoti yeh (ی) represents the i/ee sound and the barhi ye (ے) the e sound.

You'll understand if you learn to read it properly.

Reason 2) It's like English. All non-native speakers of english have a complaint that "they write something in English and pronounce it soemthing entirely different". Yet pretty much everyone that speaks English gets the pronunciation right, reason being they have memorised the words subconsciously.
Pretty much the same with Urdu, as you'll become better at reading it, you won't need the zabar, zer or pesh anymore.
Note one interesting thing, some languages that write with the Arabic alphabet write their vowels 100% percent of the time eg. Koshur (Kashmiri) language.

 

[dravidianhero]

do sindhis in pakistan whom i heard reatained a lot of sanskrit vocabulary also have the same pronunciation for such words?

 

[dravidianhero]

draisin bhai
thnx for ur replies but u have not answered all my ques.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

do sindhis in pakistan whom i heard reatained a lot of sanskrit vocabulary also have the same pronunciation for such words?

Usually if a word derives from Sanskrit, and pronunciation has not changed over time, then it's possible to use the Urdu Alphabet to write those words sound by sound perfectly.

However, if 2 languages share the same word and they are written the same in the Urdu/Persian/Arabic alphabet, it doesn't guarantee they will be pronounced the same. Much like Latin letter J and French J, different sounds same letter.
Another example would be 'Ishq', which is from Arabic, in pretty much all languages that use this word it's written the same, yet pronounced 'eshgh' in Persian for example, and 'ishq' in Urdu. So it's best to learn each and every individual alphabet when learning the language. Leaning Persian alphabet doesn't guarantee you will get Urdu sounds correct (ie. ق in Urdu makes the 'Q' sound but in Persian the 'Gh' sound).

Also, Urdu Alphabet can be used to write Sanskrit perfectly, sound to sound. It was modified on purpose to include all Arabic sounds, all Persian sounds and all Indic (Sanskrit-derived) sounds.

I don't speak Sindhi by the way.

 

[dravidianhero]

yeah my mother tongue is telugu and i can assure you tht you need to have a lot of determination to learn urdu script if u r a self learner.i learnt tamil script in 1 day,malayalam in 15 days(none of these scripts are remotely close to my native language's script) but urdu has taken 12 yrs and still counting.all the indian languages unlike english or urdu are phonetic languages which makes them easy to learn.i wanted to read maududis tafseer in urdu back in those days when net was not in wider use

 

[DRaisinHerald]

one more doubt is i observed pakistanis,indian punjabis and muslims having a problem with pronunciation of certain words like praveen(these ppl pronounce it as parveen),sravan as sarvan,problem as parblem,school as ischool,snake as isnake etc etc.why do they do so?do arabic and persian not have such sounds?is it because of the influence of those languages on their pronunciation?(i have even heard hindu north indians pronouncing them like tht)

That might just have to do with sound changes over times.
The school and ischool problem does exist among Indian Punjabi speakers because it's not possible to write sk sounds together (I think).
In Pakistani Punjab, we pronounce School as Sakool alot of the time

And no, Arabic and Persian do not have those ligatures (2 or more consonants written together), so that might be the reason (North India and Pakistan has alot more Perso-Arabic influence than South India).

i wanted to read maududis tafseer in urdu back in those days when net was not in wider use

Nice, are you Muslim?

but urdu has taken 12 yrs and still counting

You live in Hyderabad, one of the many important Urdu-Speaking cities in India. Better go to a teacher or somebody you know reads and writes Urdu well, it won't be as hard then.

 

[dravidianhero]

i have given up on urdu many times out of frustration but after months and sometimes years i used to get back to it for a while before giving it a break again.hopefully i will be able to master it in one more year.by the way here in telangana region our grand fathers used to study in urdu medium due to the oppressive policies of muslim rulers.they wanted to wipe out our telugu which was one of the causes for the telangana revolution.
ok Dr bhai gud night and thnx for clarifying my doubts
shabba khair

no bhai
am not muslim but was interested in world religions.i read quran telugu translation given by one jamaat e islam fellow but it doesnt have detailed tafseer.he told me i could get a detailed tafseer only in urdu.anyway later i have read quran in detail on net without having to learn urdu.dont ask my opinion on quran now.i am an atheist.that might give u some idea

 

[DRaisinHerald]

by the way here in telangana region our grand fathers used to study in urdu medium due to the oppressive policies of muslim rulers.they wanted to wipe out our telugu which was one of the causes for the telangana revolution

If you mean during the Hyderabad State, under the British Empire, then I disagree, the Nizams of Hyderabad were of the most tolerant rules of the region

Never the less, don't give up and get your self a good teacher; I'm pretty sure Hyderabad doesn't lack any.

i have read quran in detail on net without having to learn urdu.dont ask my opinion on quran now.i am an atheist.that might give u some idea

Lol alright

 

[russellpeters]

yes "aab". Like aab-e-zam zam. it's arabic word

I beg to differ. The Iranian members here will agree that Aab is a persian word. Its close cognate in Sanskrit is "aap".

Panjab = Panch +Aab = 5 rivers...

 

[Syed Naved]

but i think two has different meaning , use

 

[russellpeters]

but i think two has different meaning , use

"aap" is a sanskrit word for "Water". it is rarely used in Hindi.there are many hymns are dedicated to Apam Napat, a deity of water. Both early Hinduism and Zorasterianism have the deity called Apam Napat.

Even the shanti paath, or Hymns for Peace, have a hymns "shantirapah shantiraushadhayah"

"Peace in the waters, and peace in the herbs."