Hijacking faith: How an extremist Deobandi ideology rules the Barelvi major

[Hyperion]

What the fvck! I'm confused..... didn't Zia actually poison the Deobandis with Wahabi school of thought? Why malign Deobandis for the sick imported version of Islam? This can be a new tactic by Arab-lovers to malign our forefathers instead of their own virulent version of Islam which was shoved up our arse. For this, I feel as if we need to blame the source, or maybe I'm missing something here.

 

[ice_man]

what I don't understand is why is PAKISTANI religious belief either extremely hardcore weird or extremely chilled out party type qalandari & dancing.

why can't we have Islam in the islam form! why do we have to go to extremes!


and sadly less than 1% of Pakistanis understand the quran they all can read it but understanding is something left to our Mullahs & hence drama boys like

AMIR LIAQUAT become hip & in with people!

 

[SBD-3]

The problem is the takfiris who justify violence against the sects they deem heretical.

It is not as simple. Aside from the extremists, a silent majority also harbors a similar stance towards eachother albeit they don't chose the violent path as is chosen by the radicals like SSP,MWM,ST,TTP and AQ. Many people consider me shia (judging by my name), every shia or sunni i meet, do ask me this question often. Some go ahead by asking me about my beliefs about shias. So its not just that these groups are a minority in our society. They do carry the slient ideological support from a significant chunk of society.

 

[SBD-3]

what I don't understand is why is PAKISTANI religious belief either extremely hardcore weird or extremely chilled out party type qalandari & dancing.

why can't we have Islam in the islam form! why do we have to go to extremes!


and sadly less than 1% of Pakistanis understand the quran they all can read it but understanding is something left to our Mullahs & hence drama boys like

AMIR LIAQUAT become hip & in with people!

There are certain reasons for this.
1- Almost all of the people tend to understand Quran by reading its translation. Now Arabic is a language of vast extent and depth. One of my teachers told us an interesting example. He recited the Quranic Verse "WA MAKARU WA MAKARALLAH WALLAHU KHAIRUL MAKIREEN" . Now in urdu, the word makr means decepition, so translation becomes logically incorrect if use the mere translation. However, in Arabic the word mark is also used for planning, and a covert scheme. Thus my teacher used to stress learning Arabic than using the translation.
2- People tend to rely upon molvis for religious knowledge rather than studying Islamic books themselves. Unfortunately while a typical Muslim spends hours and hours on studying textbooks but not even a fraction is spent upon studying Islamic books. Unfortunately, people consider practices (Sala,Saum etc) as the whole of Islam but doesn't spend enough (to be honest, any) time on studying themselves.

 

[Leader]

1. Asadullah Ghalib aur Mohammad Iqbal jaise hastion ko thorey se bhi smajh ne ke lye, the parameters of a defense forum is small. They were poets, philosophers and sages. For instance, Iqbal's Shikwa and Jawab e Shikwa. Omar Khayam or Khalil Gibran means defferent things to different people.

2. Islam is not a religion as defined in the dictionary. The religion of the dictionary has rituals, images, idols, etc like Hinduism, Christianity, etc. Islam , to my mind, is best described as a revolution. This is a dynamic process that continues for ever for the betterment of mankind through social reformations.

Sir you deliberately skipped my question.. I know we all are afraid, if we go against the so called "established" fact/rule/principle which is mistakenly deemed to be all "divine".

Professor Gamedi has no space even to live in our society, let alone speaking his mind, I can understand.

p.s. actually back then every religion claims to be more than just a mere religion in the english sense of the word.
even today, every religion claims to be a way of life and nothing less.

 

[Sedqal]

The article is highly misleading. Brailvi and Deobandi both follow the Hanfi school and both hold Sufi traditions in high regard. The two main groups in Ahle Sunnah are Muqalid and Ghair Muqalid i.e those following a particular Imam and Ahle Hadith. So called Wahabi school of thought is also Muqalid but as it was a reactionary force it is far more strict and the aim has been to cleanse the religion from any cultural impurities.

Hz Muawia is highly regarded in all these branches of Ahle Sunnah and Yazeed is disliked for his role, only some hardcore elements in Pakistan extol him (and that is more in Bughze Shia then in Hub e Yazeed). But you should understand that historically Ahle Sunnah have treated the whole Karbala tragedy in a very different light then our Shi'ite brethren - the question has always been if it is allowed for a person (or a group) to challenge the authority of the ruler (Some of our Imams became targets of Caliph's fury but not one permitted the followers to revolt).

 

[KingMamba]

What the fvck! I'm confused..... didn't Zia actually poison the Deobandis with Wahabi school of thought? Why malign Deobandis for the sick imported version of Islam? This can be a new tactic by Arab-lovers to malign our forefathers instead of their own virulent version of Islam which was shoved up our arse. For this, I feel as if we need to blame the source, or maybe I'm missing something here.

Deobandi is basically the subcontinent name of wahabbi.

One just has to go to youtube and see various takfiri fatwas from deobandi mullahs to realize there isn't much difference. You can probably credit zia for this though but historically deobandis are more hardline.

 

[KingMamba]

Yes, and we also need to understand the state of the society at a given point in time. What are the influences of local culture? The stance of the ruler or the political situation? Are we talking about those in a Dar ul Harb or Dar ul Islam or those living in a condition in between. The context / perspective needs to be analyzed. That's why it has been enjoined that there is no compulsion in religion. That's why we are exclusive, tolerant and protect even those who profess other faiths. That's why today SA, China or even Korea is not totally Muslim. (Amir Taimur's cavalry had crossed into modern Korea, but he didn't stay back.) That's also the reason it took nearly 200 years for the Muslims to establish themselves in the Indus valley. Merely using the sword would have fast-tracked this.

I agree brother but to say we are exclusive, tolerant, and protective today would be a fallacy. Back in time we could accredit Muslims with all such things but today it is no longer the case.

 

[Ahmed_Vohra]

Azaadi ke 66 saal baad,

Pehle hum yeh to decide kar le ki, kaun Musalmaan hai aur kaun nahi!

Every other sect or school of thought is busy proving their Islamiyat and proving how everyone else is Kafir!

 

[KingMamba]

what I don't understand is why is PAKISTANI religious belief either extremely hardcore weird or extremely chilled out party type qalandari & dancing.

why can't we have Islam in the islam form! why do we have to go to extremes!


and sadly less than 1% of Pakistanis understand the quran they all can read it but understanding is something left to our Mullahs & hence drama boys like

AMIR LIAQUAT become hip & in with people!

That is why Pakistan should try to offer Arabic as one language course. People need to be able to read the Quran for themselves or at least have Qurans made with urdu tajma on the side.

 

[Leader]

 

[Zarvan]

Sir you deliberately skipped my question.. I know we all are afraid, if we go against the so called "established" fact/rule/principle which is mistakenly deemed to be all "divine".

Professor Gamedi has no space even to live in our society, let alone speaking his mind, I can understand.

p.s. actually back then every religion claims to be more than just a mere religion in the english sense of the word.
even today, every religion claims to be a way of life and nothing less.

it is good fit as like ghamdi is kept out nothing more than fitna he is and @hasnain0099 I agreed with you we need to study tafseer hadees and seerat and fiqh but also listen to ulemas

 

[muse]

I hope as readers on the forum read responses of various supporters of sects of Islam, that they will notice how much "Doctrine" is bandied about and how little the central idea of Islam, Faith in God, as a matter of fact none of them talks of this.

The business with these "doctrines" is about ownership of "truth", this is why the notion that there are as many paths to God as there are those who seek a path to God, is a abomination to them, because they are about CERTITUDE - they are convinced that Faith in God, if it can ever be attained, can only be attained through certitude -- Whereas Islam's central message, is FAITH in God, as a necessary condition for Salvation

 

[asad71]

Sir you deliberately skipped my question.. I know we all are afraid, if we go against the so called "established" fact/rule/principle which is mistakenly deemed to be all "divine".

Professor Gamedi has no space even to live in our society, let alone speaking his mind, I can understand.

p.s. actually back then every religion claims to be more than just a mere religion in the english sense of the word.
even today, every religion claims to be a way of life and nothing less.

"Sir phir Galib kyon bola "Kaleesa mera agay, kabba mere pechay?"

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...logy-rules-barelvi-major-3.html#ixzz2Xbwdbf6t

I really do not posses the education or knowledge on Ghalib to comment on him just from a line or a phrase. I have read Ghalib mostly from translation - and that has shortcomings. I have seen films on him. Read books about him. Heard his poems recited, and, of course, his soul rupturing songs. His period was the twilight of the Mughals, and a time when the Hindustani Muslims had their morale down in the knees. This frustration would obviously color his writings. But as I have said, this is not area that I feel comfortable to dwell much into. Thank you.

 

[Sedqal]

I hope as readers on the forum read responses of various supporters of sects of Islam, that they will notice how much "Doctrine" is bandied about and how little the central idea of Islam, Faith in God, as a matter of fact none of them talks of this.

The business with these "doctrines" is about ownership of "truth", this is why the notion that there are as many paths to God as there are those who seek a path to God, is a abomination to them, because they are about CERTITUDE - they are convinced that Faith in God, if it can ever be attained, can only be attained through certitude -- Whereas Islam's central message, is FAITH in God, as a necessary condition for Salvation

Said notion is a Sufi one and really does not get much support from any Sunni school of thought. Even Brailvis don't use it in that sense (they mostly link it with Sufi Silsila not different sects or religions).

But I do agree with the gist of your post - one rarely hears about the main tenants of Islam.