Hijacking faith: How an extremist Deobandi ideology rules the Barelvi major

[muse]

reforming or reconstruction requires to rethink these 4 schools, discard them maybe, how come their "thoughts" became part of the faith or a permanent and absolute interpretation of the Rules/principles.

Exactly - why these schools and not any other? -- But of course such questions are for peole who are essentially HONEST and think about problems and solutions - and they are in a minority.

We had earlier said that most Muslims are alienated from Islam - that is to say that to them, Islam has no meaning in their lives, it is a set of rituals and doctrines, it has nothing to do with Faith in God and that increasingly it takes coersion, whether religious police in arabia or their version (Talib) in Pakistan or whether the revolution in Iran, increasingly Muslims are having to be FORCED into islam -- Now if muslims really had a organic view of Islam in their lives why would they have to be forced to do anything?

 

[Pakistani E]

Laal - Maulana (Jalib) - YouTube

Anyone who takes punj jamaat paas molvi serious is a dumb retard and needs his/her head checking. The biggest fitna around today is that of the religious clergy. Europe managed to control their molvis when we will control ours?

Sorry I had to post that song, fits in quite well actually.

 

[SBD-3]

reforming or reconstruction requires to rethink these 4 schools, discard them maybe, how come their "thoughts" became part of the faith or a permanent and absolute interpretation of the Rules/principles.

Excuse me?
1) They are school of Islamic Jurisprudence. (Not just 4 but around 12, in all)
2) They have offered people with diversity of views. The devide have never been on the school of jurisprudence but rather on the difference of views on certain events and beliefs. For example Imam e Bukhari (May God be pleased with him) maintained sever ideological disputes with Imam Abu Hanifa (May God be pleased with him) -Typically because Imam Bukhari (May God be pleased with him) believed that faith is dependent upon acts while Imam Abu Hanifa (May God be pleased with him) believed that faith is dependent upon beliefs- yet to sunnis both are very respectable authorities in their disciplines (Imam Bukhari (May God be pleased with him) in Hadith and Imam Abu Hanifa (May God be pleased with him) in Jurisprudence)
So better keep quite rather than uttering illogical and ignorant rubbish.

 

[SBD-3]

Anyone who takes punj jamaat paas molvi serious is a dumb retard and needs his/her head checking. The biggest fitna around today is that of the religious clergy. Europe managed to control their molvis when we will control ours?

Okey my friend please enlighten me when Quran used the word "educated" since you have raised the objective.
1- “...Say: ‘Are those equal, those who know and those who do not know? It is those who are endowed with understanding that receive admonition.’” (Qur’an, 39:9)
2-“Do they not travel through the land, so that their hearts (and minds) may thus learn wisdom and their ears may thus learn to hear? Truly it is not the eyes that are blind, but the hearts which are in their breasts.” (22:46)
So why are you trying to confuse wisdom about which Quran says
3- He grants wisdom to whom he wills, and he, to whom wisdom is granted, is indeed granted abundant good."(2:269)
Furthermore, do let me know How educated our beloved Rasool Ulllah (Saal Allah hu Aliehi Wasslam) was.
What was His (Saal Allah hu Aliehi Wasslam) reply to Hazrat Jibrael (Alihe Salam) when He (Alihe Salam) asked Him (PBUH) to say "Iqra"? And what did he say after the reply of Rasool (PBUH)?

 

[SQ8]

Okey my friend please enlighten me when Quran used the word "educated" since you have raised the objective.
1- “...Say: ‘Are those equal, those who know and those who do not know? It is those who are endowed with understanding that receive admonition.’” (Qur’an, 39:9)
2-“Do they not travel through the land, so that their hearts (and minds) may thus learn wisdom and their ears may thus learn to hear? Truly it is not the eyes that are blind, but the hearts which are in their breasts.” (22:46)
So why are you trying to confuse wisdom about which Quran says
3- He grants wisdom to whom he wills, and he, to whom wisdom is granted, is indeed granted abundant good."(2:269)
Furthermore, do let me know How educated our beloved Rasool Ulllah (Saal Allah hu Aliehi Wasslam) was.
What was His (Saal Allah hu Aliehi Wasslam) reply to Hazrat Jibrael (Alihe Salam) when He (Alihe Salam) asked Him (PBUH) to say "Iqra"? And what did he say after the reply of Rasool (PBUH)?

Apparently he is yet to encounter the phenomenon of the "Parhe likhe Jahil" that roam the streets.. disobeying laws etc.

That being said, the deobandi ideology that is being proscribed isnt exactly deoband entirely.. there were differing schools of thought in deoband.. some scholars were more rightwing, others more balanced.. some supported Pakistan.. other's did not.
However, at the end.. almost all of them ended up in Pakistan.. the ones that supported Pakistan. it would make sense..
But I ask why of the rest??

 

[Saleem]

Don't know what this guy is talking about because all the major contemporary Sunni scholars that I know used to say Hazrat Ameer Muaiwya(RZ) as criticizing or maligning any companion of the Prophet(SAW) is against the basic ideology of Ahlay Suunah irrespective of Barelvis or Deobandis.

Apparently the writer wants Pakistani society to divide further and wants Barelvis and Deobandis to start killing each other. Great work of intellect from PPP mouthpiece.

probably the guy failed in real life..no job...no education...so he has to run some sort of charade to make himself feel important and make a living .....so worship God and not charlatans.....

 

[muse]

Excuse me?
1) They are school of Islamic Jurisprudence. (Not just 4 but around 12, in all)
2) They have offered people with diversity of views. The devide have never been on the school of jurisprudence but rather on the difference of views on certain events and beliefs. For example Imam e Bukhari (May God be pleased with him) maintained sever ideological disputes with Imam Abu Hanifa (May God be pleased with him) -Typically because Imam Bukhari (May God be pleased with him) believed that faith is dependent upon acts while Imam Abu Hanifa (May God be pleased with him) believed that faith is dependent upon beliefs- yet to sunnis both are very respectable authorities in their disciplines (Imam Bukhari (May God be pleased with him) in Hadith and Imam Abu Hanifa (May God be pleased with him) in Jurisprudence)
So better keep quite rather than uttering illogical and ignorant rubbish.

The important part to not e is not the esteem that these scholars had for each other, but rather the net effect of these schools - now, you make an excellent point about offering a diversity of views - So there are 4 recognized schools why not 5? What can you offer us to better understand this?

 

[Multani]

in our country Pakistan, more than 75% of the population is Ahle Sunnat (labelled as Barelwi by wahabis)

wahabis (deobandis, ahle hadith, jamate islami, TTP, ghamdi of Geo TV) are around 15%

 

[Zarvan]

Exactly - why these schools and not any other? -- But of course such questions are for peole who are essentially HONEST and think about problems and solutions - and they are in a minority.

We had earlier said that most Muslims are alienated from Islam - that is to say that to them, Islam has no meaning in their lives, it is a set of rituals and doctrines, it has nothing to do with Faith in God and that increasingly it takes coersion, whether religious police in arabia or their version (Talib) in Pakistan or whether the revolution in Iran, increasingly Muslims are having to be FORCED into islam -- Now if muslims really had a organic view of Islam in their lives why would they have to be forced to do anything?

sir majority is fighting for Islam and those who are in government in Iran and Saudi Arabia came because off people they didn't came from sky whole world is saying Muslims have become more religious that is clearly visible around me and you are coming up with most funny question

 

[Leader]

Exactly - why these schools and not any other? -- But of course such questions are for peole who are essentially HONEST and think about problems and solutions - and they are in a minority.

We had earlier said that most Muslims are alienated from Islam - that is to say that to them, Islam has no meaning in their lives, it is a set of rituals and doctrines, it has nothing to do with Faith in God and that increasingly it takes coersion, whether religious police in arabia or their version (Talib) in Pakistan or whether the revolution in Iran, increasingly Muslims are having to be FORCED into islam -- Now if muslims really had a organic view of Islam in their lives why would they have to be forced to do anything?

Iman mujhe rokay hai, to khinchay hai mujhay kuffar
Kabba mere peeche hai, Kaleesa mere agaye...

 

[shuntmaster]

What is the main difference between Barelvi and Deobandi? How are both different to Wahabi and/or Salafi?

 

[SBD-3]

The important part to not e is not the esteem that these scholars had for each other, but rather the net effect of these schools - now, you make an excellent point about offering a diversity of views - So there are 4 recognized schools why not 5? What can you offer us to better understand this?

I said that there are not just 4 but every school is considered recognized. As a Hanafi I practice the Jurisprudence of Imam Abu Hanifa (May God be pleased with him). But that doesn't mean that I don't recognize the Hanafi,Hanbli,Shafi'e Jurisprudence, So is the case, with Zahri,Jariri and Jafari Jurisprudence. They are all widely recognized and practiced ones. For a new school of Jurisprudence, a scholar with the rank of excellence of Imam would be required.

What is the main difference between Barelvi and Deobandi? How are both different to Wahabi and/or Salafi?

If I make a chart based on beliefs (Not liberalism). The two extremes would be occupied by Shia and Salafis. Sunnis would be somewhere in between Shia and Salafis and Deubandis would lie somewhere in between Sunnis and Salafis.
Shia================Brelivis=========Deubandi=======Salafi

 

[shuntmaster]

If I make a chart based on beliefs (Not liberalism). The two extremes would be occupied by Shia and Salafis. Sunnis would be somewhere in between Shia and Salafis and Deubandis would lie somewhere in between Sunnis and Salafis.
Shia================Brelivis=========Deubandi=======Salafi

Why do you say Shia's are extremists? Apart from Hezbollah, I don't see any other Shia extremist group/organisation, even then they are localized to Libya and Israel.

 

[SBD-3]

Why do you say Shia's are extremists? Apart from Hezbollah, I don't see any other Shia extremist group/organisation, even then they are localized to Libya and Israel.

I catagorically said that the positioning doesn't represent extremism but rather difference of views. (Thats why I categorically said that the classification is based upon difference of beliefs (not extremism/liberalism)

 

[shuntmaster]

I catagorically said that the positioning doesn't represent extremism but rather difference of views. (Thats why I categorically said that the classification is based upon difference of beliefs (not extremism/liberalism)

Thanks.. My basic question still remains unanswered. What are the factors/beliefs/cultures that differentiate the various sects and schools of thought in Islam?