Have The Paf Disclaimers Sabotaged The Sale Of The JF17's!

[ghazi768]

Hi,

The americans are hating the pakistani like never before---so---the resulting sanction would be like never before---and anyone helping to circumvent them---would have problems with the U S.

So---for that reason---your prime fighter cannot have any doubts about its operation.

I say again---the JF17 is a wonderful aircraft on its own merits---but the problem is that you are not operating in ETHER.

Your equipment is to fight the enemy---until and unless some of your aircraft are not knowingly known to take out the enemy---you have a problem---because the enemy is not scared---when they are not scared---they do not make mistakes.

There has to be fear in the heart of the enemy---there has to be a SHINING SWORD --- as one of our wonderful colleague put it in those words---.

Until and unless the air commodore does not state in his interview about two heavy missile being operated by the JF17's as operational---then it is not---regardless of any reasoning---by you or any other member---.

The air commodore gave technical reasons why it could not be done.

Now as for the pod for the J10C's---use the wmd7 or whatever is available---use it and find ways to upgrade it and modify it.

You are into the battle zone against the terrorists---so what is the big deal if you don't have the best of the best.

Then you have turkey developing the pod---and you have access to vixen.

My man---to start the journey---you need to take the first step---. In 5 years time---the potency of the chinese electronics package would be almost twice as potent as they are today.

The south china seas crisis has lit a massive fire under the chinese ar-se---that is why they were back in good league with pakistan as compared to 2012---. They are spending as much as they can to make the break thru in their electronics warfare packages.

Their fighter aircraft engines are in service now---and there is no reason to believe that their radars and jammers and irst and optics would not be upto the mark.

It is time to stop listening to the lies of the PAF and let them know now that

they are liars and totally incompetent NINCOMPOOPS in negotiating for a fighter aircraft deal---.

This Guy Sohail Aman---he is DUMB---.

Can you point me to the interview that commodore gave because that is against all logic and experience. Even very old manual aircrafts could do this. If a weapons station could take up the load you could make very low bomb runs and just need the stick to keep plane steady afterward. And pilots will than use trim functions to steady the ship so as not keep pressure on the stick. Modern FBW jet can do this automatically, if you can find videos of jets firing from one wing you can see this effect to some extent easily.

 

[MastanKhan]

Seems like it. Either the Block-III (on wards) needs to be a bit higher on the ground, and/or the PAF will have to look for a lighter and more compact design. The latter is quite possible, they'd just need Denel Dynamics' expertise to develop a "Ra'ad II" or perhaps acquire a variant of Turkey's SOM ALCM.

Pappy,

They will have to modify the wheels for more clearance---right now it is too close to call---.

That is what surprised me----. They already have an F16---that sits high---then they have mirages---that sit higher----so what happened over here?

Can you point me to the interview that commodore gave because that is against all logic and experience. Even very old manual aircrafts could do this. If a weapons station could take up the load you could make very low bomb runs and just need the stick to keep plane steady afterward. And pilots will than use trim functions to steady the ship so as not keep pressure on the stick. Modern FBW jet can do this automatically, if you can find videos of jets firing from one wing you can see this effect to some extent easily.

Hi,

Thsi was at the Paris air show----the interview is here somewhere---if any member can find it out please. Thank you.

 

[SQ8]

Hi,

Thsi was at the Paris air show----the interview is here somewhere---if any member can find it out please. Thank you.

I wonder what interview would any engineer claim that they regressed from the design progress of 50 years ago.
Sorry, your claim is FALSE and I suggest you to find that interview yourself before making such flawed claims on engineering that would leave anyone with ACTUAL technical experience laughing their head off.

Unless you can prove otherwise---don't make up things to look good---just to satisfy your ego---..

You are the one indulging in this on a regular basis to try and maintain in impression of a know it all.
You claimed the interview, please bring it forward.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Thanks.........
Does status of ALCM is also in "cannot reveal" category??

(RAAD)

Primary platform for the indigenous ALCM Ra'ad is Mirage aircraft. Integration of any SOW capability on JF17 is not for public release at the moment.

 

[Hell hound]

Primary platform for the indigenous ALCM Ra'ad is Mirage aircraft. Integration of any SOW capability on JF17 is not for public release at the moment.

how good is pl5 compared to aim 9m and sd 10 to aim 120c.
and sir can you provide any new info jf17 229's new inlet sensor and refueling probe.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

how good is pl5 compared to aim 9m and sd 10 to aim 120c.
and sir can you provide any new info jf17 229's new inlet sensor and refueling probe.

Both PL5 and SD10 are integrated and proven on JF17 aircraft, and their performance is satisfactory.

I wonder what interview would any engineer claim that they regressed from the design progress of 50 years ago.
Sorry, your claim is FALSE and I suggest you to find that interview yourself before making such flawed claims on engineering that would leave anyone with ACTUAL technical experience laughing their head off.



You are the one indulging in this on a regular basis to try and maintain in impression of a know it all.
You claimed the interview, please bring it forward.

Gents, please don't pick fights. Make objective arguments like adults.

Hi,

The americans are hating the pakistani like never before---so---the resulting sanction would be like never before---and anyone helping to circumvent them---would have problems with the U S.

So---for that reason---your prime fighter cannot have any doubts about its operation.

I say again---the JF17 is a wonderful aircraft on its own merits---but the problem is that you are not operating in ETHER.

Your equipment is to fight the enemy---until and unless some of your aircraft are not knowingly known to take out the enemy---you have a problem---because the enemy is not scared---when they are not scared---they do not make mistakes.

There has to be fear in the heart of the enemy---there has to be a SHINING SWORD --- as one of our wonderful colleague put it in those words---.

Until and unless the air commodore does not state in his interview about two heavy missile being operated by the JF17's as operational---then it is not---regardless of any reasoning---by you or any other member---.

The air commodore gave technical reasons why it could not be done.

Now as for the pod for the J10C's---use the wmd7 or whatever is available---use it and find ways to upgrade it and modify it.

You are into the battle zone against the terrorists---so what is the big deal if you don't have the best of the best.

Then you have turkey developing the pod---and you have access to vixen.

My man---to start the journey---you need to take the first step---. In 5 years time---the potency of the chinese electronics package would be almost twice as potent as they are today.

The south china seas crisis has lit a massive fire under the chinese ar-se---that is why they were back in good league with pakistan as compared to 2012---. They are spending as much as they can to make the break thru in their electronics warfare packages.

Their fighter aircraft engines are in service now---and there is no reason to believe that their radars and jammers and irst and optics would not be upto the mark.

It is time to stop listening to the lies of the PAF and let them know now that

they are liars and totally incompetent NINCOMPOOPS in negotiating for a fighter aircraft deal---.

your brazen criticism of PAF, acerbity, and subjective commentary stems from what? What makes you think PAF is lying? Kindly raise your own credibility or bring some proof to your allegations. In public media, exact capability and achievements cannot and will not be released. This website is not where the battle lines are drawn. While i respect everyone's opinion and they have the right to have it, your continuous vomit against the competence of PAF is getting to me, and is insulting to the brave men in uniform who give their day and night so people like you can sit on their sofa and act like analysts. Shame on you.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

your brazen criticism of PAF, acerbity, and subjective commentary stems from what? What makes you think PAF is lying? Kindly raise your own capability or bring some proof to your allegations. In public media, exact capability and achievements cannot and will not be released. This website is not where the battle lines are drawn. While i respect everyone's opinion and they have the right to have it, your continuous vomit against the competence of PAF is getting to me, and is insulting to the brave men in uniform who give their day and night so people like you can sit on their sofa and act like analysts. Shame on you.

Sir you are absolutely right

PAF is being criticised unnecessarily

And above all he ( Mr Mastankhan ) never takes into account Two things

1 PAF's small budget

2 The power wielded by the Pakistan Army which decides the allocation of resources

As far as J 10 is concerned the Engine WS 10 has become operational only this year
And nobody knows whether it is fully operational ; MTBO ; and How reliable it is

J 10 did not happen Earlier because AL 31 is Not available

 

[RAMPAGE]

Hi,

The americans are hating the pakistani like never before---so---the resulting sanction would be like never before---and anyone helping to circumvent them---would have problems with the U S.

So---for that reason---your prime fighter cannot have any doubts about its operation.

I say again---the JF17 is a wonderful aircraft on its own merits---but the problem is that you are not operating in ETHER.

Your equipment is to fight the enemy---until and unless some of your aircraft are not knowingly known to take out the enemy---you have a problem---because the enemy is not scared---when they are not scared---they do not make mistakes.

There has to be fear in the heart of the enemy---there has to be a SHINING SWORD --- as one of our wonderful colleague put it in those words---.

Until and unless the air commodore does not state in his interview about two heavy missile being operated by the JF17's as operational---then it is not---regardless of any reasoning---by you or any other member---.

The air commodore gave technical reasons why it could not be done.

Now as for the pod for the J10C's---use the wmd7 or whatever is available---use it and find ways to upgrade it and modify it.

You are into the battle zone against the terrorists---so what is the big deal if you don't have the best of the best.

Then you have turkey developing the pod---and you have access to vixen.

My man---to start the journey---you need to take the first step---. In 5 years time---the potency of the chinese electronics package would be almost twice as potent as they are today.

The south china seas crisis has lit a massive fire under the chinese ar-se---that is why they were back in good league with pakistan as compared to 2012---. They are spending as much as they can to make the break thru in their electronics warfare packages.

Their fighter aircraft engines are in service now---and there is no reason to believe that their radars and jammers and irst and optics would not be upto the mark.

It is time to stop listening to the lies of the PAF and let them know now that

they are liars and totally incompetent NINCOMPOOPS in negotiating for a fighter aircraft deal---.

I wonder what interview would any engineer claim that they regressed from the design progress of 50 years ago.
Sorry, your claim is FALSE and I suggest you to find that interview yourself before making such flawed claims on engineering that would leave anyone with ACTUAL technical experience laughing their head off.



You are the one indulging in this on a regular basis to try and maintain in impression of a know it all.
You claimed the interview, please bring it forward.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Sir you are absolutely right

PAF is being criticised unnecessarily

And above all he ( Mr Mastankhan ) never takes into account Two things

1 PAF's small budget

2 The power wielded by the Pakistan Army which decides the allocation of resources

As far as J 10 is concerned the Engine WS 10 has become operational only this year
And nobody knows whether it is fully operational ; MTBO ; and How reliable it is

J 10 did not happen Earlier because AL 31 is Not available

Mr. Cohen. PAF's budget is not small, nor is Pakistan Army deciding the allocation of resources. Your commentary is also without any objective reason. You don't have to unnecessarily support me.

 

[araz]

Silly drunken Indian make such dreaming Movies to motivate the poor pilots to fight like a man, as they drunken and are ball less Men.

This is a stupid statement. Irrespective of their nationalities soldiers stand and fight for their nation and if need be give their lives just like a lot of Indian soldiers and airmen have done. You are a fool if you disrespect and disregard the enemy. This is not bravado.
Mods please take action. Before we have a flame war on the board.
A

 

[leftfordead]

your brazen criticism of PAF, acerbity, and subjective commentary stems from what? What makes you think PAF is lying? Kindly raise your own credibility or bring some proof to your allegations. In public media, exact capability and achievements cannot and will not be released. This website is not where the battle lines are drawn. While i respect everyone's opinion and they have the right to have it, your continuous vomit against the competence of PAF is getting to me, and is insulting to the brave men in uniform who give their day and night so people like you can sit on their sofa and act like analysts. Shame on you.

Sir positive Criticism is part of every Free institutions , so PAF or Army is no exception .. but we have to be clear on words and allegation , but I don't find any difference between the respect of a Man in Uniform and a Civilian ..
what Mastan wants and its my assertion from his posts and threads that he want PAF to be clear in their stance , probably his way of thinking represents the way of Life is US where even president can be set accountable ..

 

[MastanKhan]

I wonder what interview would any engineer claim that they regressed from the design progress of 50 years ago.
Sorry, your claim is FALSE and I suggest you to find that interview yourself before making such flawed claims on engineering that would leave anyone with ACTUAL technical experience laughing their head off.



You are the one indulging in this on a regular basis to try and maintain in impression of a know it all.
You claimed the interview, please bring it forward.

View attachment 304010

@Oscar ----here is your answer---. Calm down buddy---.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Sir positive Criticism is part of every Free institutions , so PAF or Army is no exception .. but we have to be clear on words and allegation , but I don't find any difference between the respect of a Man in Uniform and a Civilian ..
what Mastan wants and its my assertion from his posts and threads that he want PAF to be clear in their stance , probably his way of thinking represents the way of Life is US where even president can be set accountable ..

I have all the praise for the analysis and the criticism here, but calling us fools, idiots, and morons is constructive? how?
You all must be clear that you will never be told what is actually going on and that is due to secrecy that must be maintained around operations and technical plans. the way of life in US and their president is no metric for us. You have no idea what they get away with.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

I have all the praise for the analysis and the criticism here, but calling us fools, idiots, and morons is constructive? how?
You all must be clear that you will never be told what is actually going on and that is due to secrecy that must be maintained around operations and technical plans. the way of life in US and their president is no metric for us. You have no idea what they get away with.

Hello Sir ; Could you please share your views about J 10

Why has PAF not gone for it

 

[MastanKhan]

your brazen criticism of PAF, acerbity, and subjective commentary stems from what? What makes you think PAF is lying? Kindly raise your own credibility or bring some proof to your allegations. In public media, exact capability and achievements cannot and will not be released. This website is not where the battle lines are drawn. While i respect everyone's opinion and they have the right to have it, your continuous vomit against the competence of PAF is getting to me, and is insulting to the brave men in uniform who give their day and night so people like you can sit on their sofa and act like analysts. Shame on you.

Sir,

The issue is with the paf managers---it is not about the brave men----even though they may think they are being attacked.

You chose the job when you signed on the dotted line---you got paid to do the job---and you got the benefits.

But in return you only gave us your strutting around and peacok postures---.

You have sabotaged the procurement of a right aircraft since the 80's---you have made blunders one after the other by not picking the right aircraft in time and allowing the enemy to pick that aircraft.

Case in point---first time it was the mirage 2000 in the 80's---yuoiu got the free f16's and you had the chance to get the new mirage 2000's----yet you strutted around with your supposed number one---and allowed the enemy to get the number two.

Then you got sanctioned and the number two becaem superior and you had nowhere to go.

In the early 2000---ie in 2003-05 you had the chance a second time---at Rafale and you screwed it up again.

You had the funds to buy 72 F16's---which would mean that you could get around 48 Rafales----.

And if you were worried about the cost of operation---you could have cut down the numbers to 40----the money for the 8 aircraft---you could have deposited in a fix deposit account at 8% interest of that time and that interest would have covered the maintenance cost of the aircraft above and beyond it would cost to maintain an F16.

Again you failed to do that---and jumped for the F16's---.

tHne the money that the nation gave you for the F16's----you donated it for earthquake---you had NO RIGHT TO DO THAT---. Money for weapons is money for weapons and not for charity.

Tell me Mr Khan---if your mother had cancer---and your dad gave you the money and said---Khan---go to the medicine store and buy these shots for your mom otherwise she might die---and on your way---you give the money to a state owned charity asking money for disaster relief.

None of you would do that if the situation arose in that manner---but the nations funds are ready to be squandered.

You were also planning to build your own aircraft---and you wanted the same country to sell you the electronics package as well---.

You sabotaged their multi billionsof dollars sale of the Rafale that they desperately needed---and you expected that they will fulfill a 1/2 billion dollars sale---.

Even if you had bought 30 Rafales---you would have committed a coupe de grace on the enemy---because you JF17 would have been equipped with the best electronics package that there was---.

My man---as you are a fighter pilot----you decide issues of life and death in milliseconds---I am a car salesman---I have to decide in a similar time where my sales is going---where the customer mind is and what is his needs and desires are and how can I commit him to buy from me NOW and what he is thinking and why is he thinking that way---so that he may walk over to the next dealership.

I have to have a counter for every objection thrown at me---and respond back in a manner very pleasant and friendly----making it look like that is what the customer wanted to say---.

I am not looking at one sale---I am looking at multiple sales---because that person has a brother a sister a wife a daughter a son he has relatives and friends---I am looking at a relationship with that person---why---because buying a car is a very traumatic experience here in the U S----. Once your relationship is established---after that all the sales are a cakewalk.

What I am saying is---that the air force chose to do the job of car sales people---you did not recognize the after effects and REACTION to not going for the Rafale.

From the mouth of victory---you pulled out agony of defeat---not one time---not two time---not three times---not four times---not five times but six times and counting in the last 30 years.

Mr. Khan---you are feeling the heat---because your feet have not been held onto the fire for your follies.

The nation worships you second to god----and that has muddled their judgement to see the true picture.