Hatf 7 Babur Cruise Missile Multi-tube Version Tested

[Arsalan]

Edging close to the naval integration

we will need to test understand booster and propellant and that it!! We got a Naval Version, a sub launched one.
I don't this PN will be equipping any on its surface combatants with Babur Missile. Not at least the ones we currently possess!

All said, please note a comparison:

Many people are talking about future Naval Version of Babur Cruise missile. Where i personally was always of view that a naval version, whenever it comes will be a submarine launched version and not surface launched system. This was bases on the fact that out surface combatants are of light to medium class and not conventionally know for land attack roles.
Land attack cruise missiles suites with heavier frigates and even better with destroyers!

However, all said, here is an interesting comparison:

C-802 Anti-Ship Missiles
PN Surface Warship fleet carry C-802/803 in anti ship role. The Dimension of this missile are:
Weight 715 kg
Length 6.392 m
Diameter 36 cm

Babur Cruise Missile
Weight 1200Kg appx (payload >300 kg)
Length 6.25 m (7 m with booster)
Diameter 52 cm

Now considering that C-802 are usually carried in a quad-canister assembly where four missiles are carried like:

and the multi-tube cruise missile that we have been testing is a three tube assembly:

so may be we can replace the C-802 four missile assembly (weighing 4 x 715kg = 2860Kg appx) with a three missile assembly of Babur (1200 x 3 = 3600 Kg)
Just a case of MAY BE!! I don't see these being fired from C-802 like canisters. Will perhaps require heavier vessels with more displacement (at least in 4000 appx class) to incorporate a VLS system to fire Land Attack Cruise missile Babur from surface vessel.
So again, i personally think that the Naval version will be a submarine launched missile!

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...r-cruise-missile-database-10.html#post3424437

 

[S.Y.A]

on a completely different note, is Pakistan developing a SAM??

 

[monitor]

Its a old version . Pakistan tested multi tube version years back now any improvement in it such as more two tube in one vehicle ?

 

[Thorough Pro]

arsalan@ orange or red color kisi aor ko pasand hy na .....i hope u understand

Orange colour is used on test missiles for high visibility, filming and finding/retreiving parts after impact.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Actually this Babur, Shaheen, Ghaznavi are all hoax, miniature nukes on Nasar half the radius of Babur is also a photoshoped dream. Pakistan is a third world country way way behind in electronics and tech, and can't possibly achieve any such successes. all these vidoes are allso fake. Yoiu don't have to worry, go get a peaceful sleep and on the way please leave this forum to it's Pakistani members.

One of the reasons why the Nuclear capability of Babur remains.... dubious.
If we observe Tomhawk configuration which is similar to Babur considering its 450kg payload capability... I guess Babur has 500kg payload capability.

The mass of W80 warhead is about 110kg for 150KT yield.... is one of the Lighter warheads used by US... keeping in mind the rest of the space being occupied by Instruments explosives, Guidance Instruments and etc.... Here Pakistan is yet to miniaturize its bomb to such levels.. considering the Electronics systems miniaturization to be on Par with the best in the world... (which it is not in reality).

This concludes that the warhead on Babur if Nuclear has to be of tactical sub-kiloton yield... which is not enough to be considered as strategic deterrence... Hence some people who think that arming the Nuclear subs with Babur... would account for a Nuclear Triad are wrong in this regard... they have to 1st miniaturize the plain fission based Pu-239 warheads upto 110kg to achieve 10+KT strategic yeild.. Which is very difficult and not possible... or assuming A.Q. Khan is correct about the boosted fission HEU warhead.. miniaturize it upto the level 100-200kg.. which is difficult but can be achieved... however it requires tests in order to verify the new design.

The Lightest Pakistani warhead known has been of 91kg and is a sub-kiloton fission based device... which uses Pu-239.

 

[IceCold]

Actually this Babur, Shaheen, Ghaznavi are all hoax, miniature nukes on Nasar half the radius of Babur is also a photoshoped dream. Pakistan is a third world country way way behind in electronics and tech, and can't possibly achieve any such successes. all these vidoes are allso fake. Yoiu don't have to worry, go get a peaceful sleep and on the way please leave this forum to it's Pakistani members.

Trolls like him are set loose with impunity to troll on every Pakistani thread and ruin them.....i wonder why???

 

[DARKY]

Plutonium weapons are very compact by default in design and are very light weight compared to Uranium ones... 25-45 KT weapons can be deployed on small systems such as cruise missiles or torpedo tips as they don't wgh more than 200-300 KG.... Even Harpoons can be yielded with 1 or more KT weapons

By compact I guess you are talking of a Boosted fission Plutonium Warhead... certainly a 25-45Kt such warhead would weight 200-300Kg... However what Pakistan has tested till now is fission HEU/Pu-239 and a Boosted fission HEU warhead(according to A.Q.Khan which remains dubious) which are in general heavy(Infact the the weight would amount upto 450 kg for the boosted fission HEU)... In general I also gave an account of other components to the Missile payload...i.e. Guidance Systems, Instruments explosives..etc.. Hence a 500Kg Payload on a Babur like cruise missile would mean about 100-200Kg warhead can be mounted.

 

[Arsalan]

arsalan@ orange or red color kisi aor ko pasand hy na .....i hope u understand

I DO!
But in fact, the missile is painted Orange and White when being fired for testing and evaluation to make it easier to spot and thus track visually!
The operational regiments will get camouflaged paint, most suitable will be forest/desert camo for launch vehicle and grey for the missile, same grey as our fighter jets camo!

The Missile is in same colour Sir when launched we see only one side but when it goes in Air it is same colour

I though the same in beginning.
But if you watch the video in full zoom, you can see the missile rotating more then 90 degree and no orange stripe is visible. I think that for some strage reason it was grey!
I might be worng, this is just a visual assesment and the video quality is not so good!

Anyway yaar, that is not important, choro paray!

Good to see PA extensively testing this system!

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

By compact I guess you are talking of a Boosted fission Plutonium Warhead... certainly a 25-45Kt such warhead would weight 200-300Kg... However what Pakistan has tested till now is fission HEU/Pu-239 and a Boosted fission HEU warhead(according to A.Q.Khan which remains dubious) which are in general heavy(Infact the the weight would amount upto 450 kg for the boosted fission HEU)... In general I also gave an account of other components to the Missile payload...i.e. Guidance Systems, Instruments explosives..etc.. Hence a 500Kg Payload on a Babur like cruise missile would mean about 100-200Kg warhead can be mounted.

The tests you are talking about were back in 1998.

Pakistan, even India are not in position to test there each advancement in nuclear weapon system because of pressure from whole world. It is not possible diplomatically.

However, since whatever our scientists have said/claimed they have achieved till now (in all other cases). It is not a DRDO like case in Pakistan. (I am sorry if you find this example offensive, i do not mean it to be, but i guess this is the most appropriate one since there is lots of boasting and much less practical achievements. This makes it hard to believe what they say unless it is presented or tested/evaluated publicly)
This is a fact that KRL, NESCOM, PAC, HIT and overall SPD have claimed only what they have achieved in real. So based on there track record, it is safe to agree that Pakistan do have small battle field Nukes.

I hope we never get to test or use them, i wish we never find a need to do so!

Regards!

 

[regular]

new is in my camera i will upload soon as COAS approve it

So U the PA to COAS...????.....

 

[graphican]

on a completely different note, is Pakistan developing a SAM??

When Nasr was tested, some "insiders" had hinted that next member of Hatf Series would be surface to air. so the answer is possibly yes but cannot be confirmed.

 

[DARKY]

The tests you are talking about were back in 1998.

Pakistan, even India are not in position to test there each advancement in nuclear weapon system because of pressure from whole world. It is not possible diplomatically.

correct.

However, since whatever our scientists have said/claimed they have achieved till now (in all other cases). It is not a DRDO like case in Pakistan. (I am sorry if you find this example offensive, i do not mean it to be, but i guess this is the most appropriate one since there is lots of boasting and much less practical achievements. This makes it hard to believe what they say unless it is presented or tested/evaluated publicly)
This is a fact that KRL, NESCOM, PAC, HIT and overall SPD have claimed only what they have achieved in real. So based on there track record, it is safe to agree that Pakistan do have small battle field Nukes.

I hope we never get to test or use them, i wish we never find a need to do so!

Regards!

We are not talking India here.. If you want to discuss about the Nuclear program of India I would be happy to participate.. however that would change this thread.

I am not talking of the claims made by the research institutes in Pakistan but the real data about Pakistani Nuclear arsenal... which although we don't know exact figures but the leaked out data gives us an idea about it.

I didn't deny that Pakistan don't have sub-kiloton battle field nuke.... in fact it weights 91kg.
It can be fitted in Babur.
Can it destroy and airfield ?--- yes--- Tactical.
Can it destroy a city ?--- No--- Not Strategic.

To make Babur as strategic deterrence... Pakistan needs to have a Boosted fission Pu-239 design or a Thermonuclear based design warhead in appropriate weight class...i.e. 100-200Kg to achieve proper strategic yield.

I would've discussed about Nasr here but.. I'll leave it to another place.
People in both countries India and Pakistan must learn not to fly on false and Bogus claims..... I would give you an example... when Akash SAM was in developmental phase a rumor came out that it would also carry a 60Kg Nuclear warhead....you might find that on Wikipedia page even today.. I guess... But how correct is that... we all know.

Same way I have example in regards with Pakistan too... which are far from reality.
Babur is a tactical system.. which can be used for taking out enemy FOBs, Supply Lines, Storage facilities, Oil tankers, Railway etc..etc.... But can it be used as a trusted Nuclear carrier.. certainly No(even Anti-aircraft guns can take it out)... the Mig-21 flying 2Mach along with ECM and Jammers below the radar Horizon is a much better platform.

Talking of Jammers Babur can also be configured as radio Jammer to Jam enemy communication in VHF and HF.

 

[Arsalan]

correct.



We are not talking India here.. If you want to discuss about the Nuclear program of India I would be happy to participate.. however that would change this thread.

I am not talking of the claims made by the research institutes in Pakistan but the real data about Pakistani Nuclear arsenal... which although we don't know exact figures but the leaked out data gives us an idea about it.

I didn't deny that Pakistan don't have sub-kiloton battle field nuke.... in fact it weights 91kg.
It can be fitted in Babur.
Can it destroy and airfield ?--- yes--- Tactical.
Can it destroy a city ?--- No--- Not Strategic.

To make Babur as strategic deterrence... Pakistan needs to have a Boosted fission Pu-239 design or a Thermonuclear based design warhead in appropriate weight class...i.e. 100-200Kg to achieve proper strategic yield.

I would've discussed about Nasr here but.. I'll leave it to another place.
People in both countries India and Pakistan must learn not to fly on false and Bogus claims..... I would give you an example... when Akash SAM was in developmental phase a rumor came out that it would also carry a 60Kg Nuclear warhead....you might find that on Wikipedia page even today.. I guess... But how correct is that... we all know.

Same way I have example in regards with Pakistan too... which are far from reality.
Babur is a tactical system.. which can be used for taking out enemy FOBs, Supply Lines, Storage facilities, Oil tankers, Railway etc..etc.... But can it be used as a trusted Nuclear carrier.. certainly No(even Anti-aircraft guns can take it out)... the Mig-21 flying 2Mach along with ECM and Jammers below the radar Horizon is a much better platform.

Talking of Jammers Babur can also be configured as radio Jammer to Jam enemy communication in VHF and HF.

Cruise missiles are Tactical systems. For Strategic demolition you have the longer and medium range ballistic missiles.
It is know that the Cruise missiles are RELATIVELY easy to intercept, are expensive, and have pin point accuracy! This all makes them a better Tactical weapon then a strategic one. Babur is no different. It is a modern cruise missile, designed with a tactical role of destroying assaulting armored brigades, air bases, bridges and strategically important buildings, radar stations, air defense sites and other high value targets. The ability to carry Tactical Nuclear warhead makes in a good reply to Indian's COLD START threat.
But this is just one side of picture.
All said, agreeing that each and every aspect of this system makes it a better tactical weapon, one cannot assume that it CANNOT, or DO NOT have the ability to deliver a strategic blow.
The Babur missile can carry 300+ warhead and with all the research Pakistan have been doing in nuclear field, it is NOT just speculation.

These are somethings open for everyone to conclude or decide for themselves. Pakistan will never be publishing its smallest Strategic Nuclear warhead weight and dimensions.

Its not about flying high dear, its about having a check of previous record and then realizing that if they are saying so, it is quite true as it always has been.

 

[S.Y.A]

When Nasr was tested, some "insiders" had hinted that next member of Hatf Series would be surface to air. so the answer is possibly yes but cannot be confirmed.

took a long time to start developing one

 

[Hasham.ghega111]

Wating for Babur-2 to be test in near Future