What's new

Halfhearted US falling behind Europeans in Race to supply Engines for AMCA

HariPrasad

BANNED
Joined
Aug 5, 2013
Messages
14,055
Reaction score
-22
Country
India
Location
India
Halfhearted US falling behind Europeans in Race to supply Engines for AMCA
Published July 7, 2015 | By admin
SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK (INN)

AMCA-Art.jpg


Under Defence Technology and Trade Initiative, (DTTI) talks Washington had agreed to assist Delhi in sharing, designing and developing jet engines for aircraft but now reports are emerging that half-hearted Americans are slowly backtracking on such proposals .

India under DTTI agreements with the United States wanted to acquire and develop New engines for its 5th generation AMCA fighter jet project. DRDO had a specific requirements for a new engine which can generate 110kN of thrust, since it is Fighter specific requirement there is No off the shelf engine available to meet such requirements unless engine is uprated to deliver required thrust asked by Developers of AMCA.

General Electric Supplied F414-INS6 which will power Tejas MK-II aircraft can only generate 98kN class of thrust but GE in initial talks held with DRDO had promised that Enhanced Engine variant based on F414 can be developed for AMCA which could generate 110 kN of thrust class engine .

Ge’s in-house research project like F414 Enhanced Performance Engine (EPE) which can generate up to 20% more thrust by increasing fan airflow with the EDE hardware configuration to generate 26,400 pounds (120 kN) of thrust was a promising option for India.

After losing narrowingly to Ge’s F414 engines to power Tejas MK-2 aircrafts, Eurojet Company has offered Ej-200 engines to power AMCA aircrafts. EJ200 engine also powers Eurofighter Typhoon fighter jets which lost MMRCA tender to French Rafale fighter jets in the last round.

Euro jets is already working on new variant dubbed EJ2x0 which will have at least 20% growth potential with a reheated output of around 103kN (or 23,100lbf) but to meet AMCA requirements Eurojet also has second offer which will be to increase output by 30% above the baseline specification, such an upgrade will require more substantial plant-wide changes including a new LP compressor and turbine and an improvement in the total pressure ratio and Indian order commitment for development to take place. These engines will have a reheated output of around 120kN (or 27,000lbf).

While India’s Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) and Russian JSC Rosoboronexport/JSC Klimov have entered into a memorandum of understanding (MoU) for joint development of Multi-Axis Thrust Vectoring Nozzle for future generation aero-engine applications which can be adapted to any fighter jet engine developed by any Engine manufacturer might be used on new engine meant to be used on AMCA.

Euro jet also successfully demonstrated Thrust Vectoring Control technology first 3D TVC equipped EJ200 which underwent rig trials in July 1998 and are keen to offer their own TVC technology to power AMCA.

ADE and DRDO want to start integrating new engine into the airframe of first Technologic demonstrator aircraft of AMCA by late 2019, with less than 4 years to go decision on choice of new engine might be taken by earlier next year to avoid any delays in AMCA project .

India is also developing unnamed 80kN thrust class engine based on the technology developed for Kaveri engine project, which later will be uprated to 90-98kN thrust class to keep India’s indigenous research on turbojet engine alive.

The new engine later might be used to replace older American supplied F-404 engines in Tejas MK-1 aircrafts. GTRE plans to develop 20 Prototypes of the 80kN thrust engines for test purpose in next 3 years and is also in process of acquiring a test aircraft to be used as Test bed for the new engine to continue its research .

Halfhearted US falling behind Europeans in Race to supply Engines for AMCA | idrw.org
 
Halfhearted US falling behind Europeans in Race to supply Engines for AMCA
Published July 7, 2015 | By admin
SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK (INN)

AMCA-Art.jpg


Under Defence Technology and Trade Initiative, (DTTI) talks Washington had agreed to assist Delhi in sharing, designing and developing jet engines for aircraft but now reports are emerging that half-hearted Americans are slowly backtracking on such proposals .

India under DTTI agreements with the United States wanted to acquire and develop New engines for its 5th generation AMCA fighter jet project. DRDO had a specific requirements for a new engine which can generate 110kN of thrust, since it is Fighter specific requirement there is No off the shelf engine available to meet such requirements unless engine is uprated to deliver required thrust asked by Developers of AMCA.

General Electric Supplied F414-INS6 which will power Tejas MK-II aircraft can only generate 98kN class of thrust but GE in initial talks held with DRDO had promised that Enhanced Engine variant based on F414 can be developed for AMCA which could generate 110 kN of thrust class engine .

Ge’s in-house research project like F414 Enhanced Performance Engine (EPE) which can generate up to 20% more thrust by increasing fan airflow with the EDE hardware configuration to generate 26,400 pounds (120 kN) of thrust was a promising option for India.

After losing narrowingly to Ge’s F414 engines to power Tejas MK-2 aircrafts, Eurojet Company has offered Ej-200 engines to power AMCA aircrafts. EJ200 engine also powers Eurofighter Typhoon fighter jets which lost MMRCA tender to French Rafale fighter jets in the last round.

Euro jets is already working on new variant dubbed EJ2x0 which will have at least 20% growth potential with a reheated output of around 103kN (or 23,100lbf) but to meet AMCA requirements Eurojet also has second offer which will be to increase output by 30% above the baseline specification, such an upgrade will require more substantial plant-wide changes including a new LP compressor and turbine and an improvement in the total pressure ratio and Indian order commitment for development to take place. These engines will have a reheated output of around 120kN (or 27,000lbf).

While India’s Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) and Russian JSC Rosoboronexport/JSC Klimov have entered into a memorandum of understanding (MoU) for joint development of Multi-Axis Thrust Vectoring Nozzle for future generation aero-engine applications which can be adapted to any fighter jet engine developed by any Engine manufacturer might be used on new engine meant to be used on AMCA.

Euro jet also successfully demonstrated Thrust Vectoring Control technology first 3D TVC equipped EJ200 which underwent rig trials in July 1998 and are keen to offer their own TVC technology to power AMCA.

ADE and DRDO want to start integrating new engine into the airframe of first Technologic demonstrator aircraft of AMCA by late 2019, with less than 4 years to go decision on choice of new engine might be taken by earlier next year to avoid any delays in AMCA project .

India is also developing unnamed 80kN thrust class engine based on the technology developed for Kaveri engine project, which later will be uprated to 90-98kN thrust class to keep India’s indigenous research on turbojet engine alive.

The new engine later might be used to replace older American supplied F-404 engines in Tejas MK-1 aircrafts. GTRE plans to develop 20 Prototypes of the 80kN thrust engines for test purpose in next 3 years and is also in process of acquiring a test aircraft to be used as Test bed for the new engine to continue its research .

Halfhearted US falling behind Europeans in Race to supply Engines for AMCA | idrw.org
At least the ADA have learnt their lessons and de-coupled the engine selection/development from the AMCA's design/development process. They have put out a requirement and it it up to the OEMs to meet the technical specifications, there is not going to be any delays incurred on the part of the AMCA because of waiting for the engine to be good enough.
 
Finally the project is gathering some pace and lessons learnt during LCA project will help project AMCA.
Just like India thinking of replacing F404 with own underdevelopment engine in LCA, same can be done with AMCA.
 
Its is totally unrealistic on the Indian part to expect ToT from this exclusive cutting edge OEM's. They have spent decades in R&D to reach where they are today. You just cannot expect them to fold and hand you all their work on a platter. Just get the damn thing as is and start with the project.
 
India needs to spend more on its own engine programs。

Ten billion USD a year for the next 20 years will probably suffice for the developments of 2-3 tyeps of engines。
 
India needs to spend more on its own engine programs。

Ten billion USD a year for the next 20 years will probably suffice for the developments of 2-3 tyeps of engines。
Agree with the opinion but USD 200 Billion seems a bit too much.

More likely 100 MM dollars a year - that should get us the 2-3 engines within next 5-10 years
 
India needs to spend more on its own engine programs。

Ten billion USD a year for the next 20 years will probably suffice for the developments of 2-3 tyeps of engines。

Than what is the china's budget? 20 bn USD for 40 years?
 
Its is totally unrealistic on the Indian part to expect ToT from this exclusive cutting edge OEM's. They have spent decades in R&D to reach where they are today. You just cannot expect them to fold and hand you all their work on a platter. Just get the damn thing as is and start with the project.
This is for you Said by EURO Chief " It is not impossible for India to develop Fighter jet or Engine , Its only matter of time, We ( Euro Jet /plane engine ) can only short the time and get some money in return"
 
Can the Europeans offer a 3d thrust vectoring , super cruise engine. If yes then go for it.

If not, go to Russia,use some Juggad technology or even some baniya science and get it.
 
Make an offer , that engine manufacturer can't ignore .., other wise it going to get delayed..
 
They want us to buy f35s why would they sell the power plants
 
At least the ADA have learnt their lessons and de-coupled the engine selection/development from the AMCA's design/development process. They have put out a requirement and it it up to the OEMs to meet the technical specifications, there is not going to be any delays incurred on the part of the AMCA because of waiting for the engine to be good enough.

Good a lesson learned

India needs to spend more on its own engine programs。

Ten billion USD a year for the next 20 years will probably suffice for the developments of 2-3 tyeps of engines。

Ten billion USD a year :o::o::o:
We ain't that rich better ficus on developing specific technologies
 
Back
Top Bottom