HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[sudhir007]

GOI is " DEVELOPING" Our KAVERI yaar..........
That's nothing wrong in it...

As We know that We are Selecting F 18 for MMCA. and so we are going to use GE141 Engine(99) for our LCA Mark-2.

And GOI is just taking stappes towards Self relience for developing Kaveri engine...........

That' s Actually . dont u think?

yash how will you know that ge414 select for mk-2 beside iaf want ej200(but as per quotation it is very expansive to buy cost come around $10 million per unit it will raise the total cost of lca but if we select as per your statement ge414 it come half of the cost of ej and for me it is better coze it has extra thrust around 98kn and already proven in sea atmosphere which ej dnt so it mean it will take time and we have to bear the extra amount of development cost which is not good coze we have already in the process for developing kavari so why we go for..... . that)

First of all we are going to get 99 GE 414 for the LCA mark-2.
and rest of will be our KAVERI.........

And we are also going to use Kaveri for our MCA. form 2015 onwards....

it is better to buy 99 import engine and after that start with kaveri coze iaf need around 250 lca to replace mig-21

 

[sudhir007]

http://www.drdo.com/dpi/ADA.pdf

 

[yashraj]

yash how will you know that ge414 select for mk-2 beside iaf want ej200(but as per quotation it is very expansive to buy cost come around $10 million per unit it will raise the total cost of lca but if we select as per your statement ge414 it come half of the cost of ej and for me it is better coze it has extra thrust around 98kn and already proven in sea atmosphere which ej dnt so it mean it will take time and we have to bear the extra amount of development cost which is not good coze we have already in the process for developing kavari so why we go for..... . that)

it is better to buy 99 import engine and after that start with kaveri coze iaf need around 250 lca to replace mig-21

There are few advantage of buying 99 GE414 engine....

1) We are already using GE 404 Engine... and GE 414 is vary similar in size and shape of GE 404 engine so we required vary few structural changes, so less time and cost.

2) We can use same facility for maintance and we don't required any othe technical asistance, so again it reduce time and cost.

3) It gives higer trust than EF engine, so batter supercruse and handling.

4) And it's Almost HALF the cost of EF engine

5) One of my friend who is working in Delhi(Procurment department in the Defence) told me that right now F18 is winning and it's Winning By miles. and as you it's using GE 414 Engine.

6) So for 200 F 18 we required some 450 engines for that(50 Extra for quick replase ment and for spairs) and 99 engine for our 60 Tejas mark-2.

If we consider above all the points then GE 414 is Best chose for us and It will reduce Cost and Time by Atlist 75%. and that's HUGE

 

[sudhir007]

3) It gives higer trust than EF engine, so batter supercruse and handling.

they are not offering supercurse

 

[yashraj]

they are not offering supercurse

Sorry my bad.......

By the way sudhir how any plane can achive super cruse?

 

[sudhir007]

Sorry my bad.......

By the way sudhir how any plane can achive super cruse?

when it pass mach 1 speed without using after burner

currently only 3 F/a in the world which has this facility

1. F-22 Raptor 1.6 mach
2. Euro fighter Typhoon 1.3 mach
3. Gripen NG 1.1mach
4. Su-35BM with 117s engine (still in testing mode)

 

[RIYAZ]

guys can any one tell me what's the status of kaveri engine

 

[stax]

I heard that LCA 's engine has not determined by now. I'm wondering if LCA change its engines, do the engineers have to change origianl design and test again? Do these engines have the same shape?

 

[yashraj]

when it pass mach 1 speed without using after burner

currently only 3 F/a in the world which has this facility

1. F-22 Raptor 1.6 mach
2. Euro fighter Typhoon 1.3 mach
3. Gripen NG 1.1mach
4. Su-35BM with 117s engine (still in testing mode)

I know What is supercruse.

I know how any plane can cross Mach 1 without use of After burner..
I mean how any engine can do that? is it It's Primary compression ratio of Temp of outlet of engine or it's dry trust to weight ratio ....

 

[gogbot]

I know What is supercruse.

I know how any plane can cross Mach 1 without use of After burner..
I mean how any engine can do that? is it It's Primary compression ratio of Temp of outlet of engine or it's dry trust to weight ratio ....

I think its a combination of both actually.

The GTRE's design envisions achieving a fan pressure ratio of 4:1 and an overall pressure ratio of 27:1, which it believes will permit the Tejas to "supercruise"

Obviously that would give the engine the Ability to super cruise based on the Trust to weight ratio with the Platform in question

 

[T-50]

kavari problem is more of designing blades and material, Indian Babu's refused to buy Single Crystal Blade Technology offered by Russians, not regretting it. other problem is material, need to find different metal to with stand high temp and pressure....

 

[stax]

kavari problem is more of designing blades and material, Indian Babu's refused to buy Single Crystal Blade Technology offered by Russians, not regretting it. other problem is material, need to find different metal to with stand high temp and pressure....

Which generation Single Crystal will Kavari use? As I know, there are 5 generations Single Crystal.

 

[gogbot]

Which generation Single Crystal will Kavari use? As I know, there are 5 generations Single Crystal.

I don't believe SC blades are still being used

found this interesting article

http://mod.nic.in/reports/AR-eng-2009.pdf

"Ceramic Cores for Kaveri Engine Aerofoil
Castings: Through sustained research and
development efforts at DMRL, a viable
process based on Ceramic Injection Moulding
has been developed. The capability of the
shaping process is demonstrated by making
highly complex and intricate ceramic cores
required for making the five critical Kaveri
gas turbine engine blades and vanes. These
cores meet the stringent dimensional and
other quality requirements needed for their
use in the investment casting components.
Currently, this process is being extended to
produce cores for land based turbine blades,
a spin-off benefit for civilian applications."



"High Pressure Turbine (HPT) Blade for
Adour Engine: Vacuum investment casting
technology has been established for
production of intricate, hollow castings,
meeting the stringent requirements of Kaveri
engine. This indigenous technology has
successfully been extended to produce
directionally solidified hollow HPT blades
for Adour engine, in association with HAL.
Efforts are on to produce ceramic cores, the
only component procured from a foreign
source, also in-house. This technology will
soon be transferred to HAL, Koraput for
commercial production."


every one is heading towards Ceramic Composite matrix ) But after reading it ; India is very much inline with others.

 

[Red Dwarf]

Why didn't we used Russian engines for LCA ?. What was the reason to build LCA around a GE engine ?.

 

[Chanakyaa]

Why didn't we used Russian engines for LCA ?. What was the reason to build LCA around a GE engine ?.

Actually this has been an unpublicized consideration.

India May Use Russian Engines For LCA

India is seriously considering to use the Russian 33/RD-33MK engines for the homegrown Light Combat Aircraft, as it already used the Indian Air Force [IAF] fleet of MiG-29 aircraft.

A high level Indian military delegation comprising of Defence Production secretary and Chairman of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) Ashok Nayak recently visited a Russian ‘Chernyshev’ plant where RD-33/RD-33MK engines for MiG-29K and MiG-35 are being manufactured.

As per an agreement signed between India and Russia, the license production of RD-33 Se.3 engine will happen in India as well as transfer of technology. Officials said that only the first 20 to 40 aircraft will be manufactured with imported of-the-shelf GE-404 engines.

The RD-33 MK engine has been deemed unique since it operates well on any AoA (angle of attack).

“India would benefit if it chooses the RD-33MK engine”, said a senior Indian Air force official, adding that this is because of the unification it will receive because of the common engine logistics it will achieve in the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), MiG-29, MiG-29 MK and possibly the MiG-35. The serial production line for RD-33 class engine is already under construction in India. And after India pays transfer of technology amount for the RD-33 ser. 3 engine, it will not have to pay a double sum for the RD-33 MK engine.

The RD-33 series 3 is an upgraded version of the RD-33 powerful RD-33 turbofan engine with thrust vectoring for MiG family fighters. The engine provides superior maneuverability and enhances the fighter’s performance in close air engagements.

In 2005, Russia signed a $250 million deal with India to modernize engines for the MiG-29 fighters of the Indian Air Force. According to the terms of the deal, HAL will make 120 RD-33 series 3 jet engines at its Koraput plant for the upgrade of MiG-29 fighters. The contract will enable HAL to master the assembly of the RD-33 jet engines and use the experience in the assembly of next generation jet engines.

As for the delays in the development of fully indigenous ‘Kaveri’ engine for HAL’s LCA fighter and other IAF aircraft, it is only forcing India to keep an eye out for a powerful engine for upgrading LCA. The currently installed GE404 doesn’t fulfill the IAF specification and is not powerful enough for Navy LCA variant. The other engines in the market that fit the bill are the American GE414, British-EU EJ200 and Russian RD-33MK who stand a chance to be chosen as the LCA mark 2 engine solution till the indigenous ‘Kaveri’ engine is ready.

Also,

"RD-33MK variant with the bottom gear placement and a thrust vectoring nozzle (RD-133). Can be upgraded up to 10 t (98 kN) thrust in near future without changing the engine core. The Russian obligation to not sell TVN for China can be obtained, so the advantage of Tejas mk.2 engine (if chosen) can be visible and persuasive for public. The KLIVT all aspect TVN can be especially worth for the carrier based Tejas' variant now actively developed by HAL. The 8.3 t RD-33 ser.3 variant of the engine is already licensioned and ToTed in India, so only a minimal addition will be needed for RD-33MK production in India."

If RD-33MK chosen as a transitional engine for Tejas LCA (till Kavery ready), it's would be logically to use the Russian expertize for accelerated integration it into the redesigned LCA airframe. In most successful scenario we can reckon even a joint venture for accelerated LCA export for third countries with the Russian engine. This could have the framework of Brahmos program, when one side gives its almost ready project for joint revision and export, but keeping independence in domestic production.