HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[GHATAK]

The above 2 posts clearly show the benefits of in-house weapon development. This is something which we could not do to Jaguars/Migs - even though we know what to modify- we did not have the licence.

As the F414 engine will be used for the 41st aircraft, there is no impact to the IOC of first 2 sqdns. While they deliveer the first 40, they can get the IOC for LCA with F414, and stablize the production lines after that.

Also, will these LSP's be used by IAF. I mean will they be part of the Ist sqdn or not ?

 

[nitesh]

The above 2 posts clearly show the benefits of in-house weapon development. This is something which we could not do to Jaguars/Migs - even though we know what to modify- we did not have the licence.

As the F414 engine will be used for the 41st aircraft, there is no impact to the IOC of first 2 sqdns. While they deliveer the first 40, they can get the IOC for LCA with F414, and stablize the production lines after that.

Also, will these LSP's be used by IAF. I mean will they be part of the Ist sqdn or not ?

please check the post no. 603 the IOC will be with GE 404 IN20 the FOC will be also with GE 404 IN20 but at the same time planning is to fly LCA with an alternate engine also.

Best of luck for DRDO, ADA and GTRE guys.

 

[GHATAK]

please check the post no. 603 the IOC will be with GE 404 IN20 the FOC will be also with GE 404 IN20 but at the same time planning is to fly LCA with an alternate engine also.

Best of luck for DRDO, ADA and GTRE guys.

I would guess that IOC for engine with 404 will not be sufficient to evaluate aircraft with 414 engine.

The testing parametrs need to be re-evaulated as there is a huge increase in the thrust.

 

[nitesh]

I would guess that IOC for engine with 404 will not be sufficient to evaluate aircraft with 414 engine.

The testing parametrs need to be re-evaulated as there is a huge increase in the thrust.

May be true, but I feel not much testing will be necessary,

 

[BATMAN]

Now, I'm confused.
After all these years weight of LCA has not been determined yet!
What about all those specifications and comparisons floating all over the web?

IMO, DRDO cannot blame IAF for increased weight. Once they know the power of the engine they can very well know in advance how much load it can take and should have refused all new requests there and then.

it seems like LCA is not designed for real war infect it is made to win war of specifications.

 

[nitesh]

Now, I'm confused.
After all these years weight of LCA has not been determined yet!
What about all those specifications and comparisons floating all over the web?

IMO, DRDO cannot blame IAF for increased weight. Once they know the power of the engine they can very well know in advance how much load it can take and should have refused all new requests there and then.

it seems like LCA is not designed for real war infect it is made to win war of specifications.

Now if people are confused about the weight it is not the problem of DRDO/IAF . You kindly read the post no. 603 first (Just request, because it is the interview of LCA program director).

 

[nitesh]

The Hindu : Karnataka / Bangalore News : New engine for Tejas: GE F414 or EJ200?

New engine for Tejas: GE F414 or EJ200?

Ravi Sharma
BANGALORE: The K.V.L. Rao committee tasked with finding a new engine for the Light Combat Aircraft Tejas will be submitting its report to the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) on July 31 in New Delhi. Official sources in the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the DRDO laboratory that is behind the Rs. 5,500-crore Tejas programme, said that the committee’s chairman Dr. Rao will be making a presentation of the report prior to submitting it. The Hindu has reliably learnt that the Rao committee is recommending that the ADA choose between American aerospace major General Electric’s GE F414 engine and the European military aero-engine consortium, Eurojet Turbo’s EJ200. The ADA is expected to send a request for proposals to the two manufacturers. The latest requirement of The Indian Air Force is for an engine capable of delivering a thrust close to 100 kilo Newton (kN).

The ADA is expected to make an initial order for 80 engines at an expected cost of $500 million, with the likelihood of a follow on order of 80 more. While a few engines will be delivered built by the original equipment manufacturer, the majority are to be manufactured in India, under a licence production / transfer of technology agreement. The GE F414 and the EJ200 are proven combat engines with the former powering the F-18 Hornet and the EJ200 the Eurofighter Typhoon. Experts say that though the EJ200 is lighter and more fuel efficient, it is more expensive than the F414.

 

[IceCold]

The Hindu : Karnataka / Bangalore News : New engine for Tejas: GE F414 or EJ200?

New engine for Tejas: GE F414 or EJ200?

Ravi Sharma
BANGALORE: The K.V.L. Rao committee tasked with finding a new engine for the Light Combat Aircraft Tejas will be submitting its report to the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) on July 31 in New Delhi. Official sources in the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the DRDO laboratory that is behind the Rs. 5,500-crore Tejas programme, said that the committee’s chairman Dr. Rao will be making a presentation of the report prior to submitting it. The Hindu has reliably learnt that the Rao committee is recommending that the ADA choose between American aerospace major General Electric’s GE F414 engine and the European military aero-engine consortium, Eurojet Turbo’s EJ200. The ADA is expected to send a request for proposals to the two manufacturers. The latest requirement of The Indian Air Force is for an engine capable of delivering a thrust close to 100 kilo Newton (kN).

The ADA is expected to make an initial order for 80 engines at an expected cost of $500 million, with the likelihood of a follow on order of 80 more. While a few engines will be delivered built by the original equipment manufacturer, the majority are to be manufactured in India, under a licence production / transfer of technology agreement. The GE F414 and the EJ200 are proven combat engines with the former powering the F-18 Hornet and the EJ200 the Eurofighter Typhoon. Experts say that though the EJ200 is lighter and more fuel efficient, it is more expensive than the F414.

So a question here arises that why DRDO isn't looking into the Russian engines. I mean Russia as being the longest and more reliable supplier then any has actually more to offer then any US or european counterparts. Consider the example of China, they bought the engines from Russia(ALF-31, RD-93) for every jet that they developed, then started local manufacture of that engine with TOT and in the end came out with a version of there own(WS-10,WS-13). Acquiring Russian engines will have no strings whats so ever attached to it and will be relatively more easy to incorporate then any other given the Indian experience with the Russian hardware, also a plant could be installed for the local development and repairing of the engine. If i am not wrong i guess you guys already have a plant for the Mig engines. Is it Mig or SU i am not sure though.

 

[nitesh]

So a question here arises that why DRDO isn't looking into the Russian engines. I mean Russia as being the longest and more reliable supplier then any has actually more to offer then any US or european counterparts. Consider the example of China, they bought the engines from Russia(ALF-31, RD-93) for every jet that they developed, then started local manufacture of that engine with TOT and in the end came out with a version of there own(WS-10,WS-13). Acquiring Russian engines will have no strings whats so ever attached to it and will be relatively more easy to incorporate then any other given the Indian experience with the Russian hardware, also a plant could be installed for the local development and repairing of the engine. If i am not wrong i guess you guys already have a plant for the Mig engines. Is it Mig or SU i am not sure though.

Ice I think the point is which engine will require minimum changes in the airframe. That engine will be the best choice as it will require less testing.

 

[ejaz007]

Which ever engine is selected shall require modification to the airframe thus further delaying the program. Also these engines shall come with some sort of strings attached and full TOT might not be offered.

 

[nitesh]

Which ever engine is selected shall require modification to the airframe thus further delaying the program. Also these engines shall come with some sort of strings attached and full TOT might not be offered.

Wow what a conclusion. "Full ToT might not be offered" but "might be offered" also.

now your statement "engines shall come with some strings attached" it is your wish. Not that "engines will come with some strings attached".

 

[IceCold]

Wow what a conclusion. "Full ToT might not be offered" but "might be offered" also.

now your statement "engines shall come with some strings attached" it is your wish. Not that "engines will come with some strings attached".

He hasn't said anything for you to jump off your chair. He just expressed his opinion. Why would he or for that matter any one from our side would wish strings to be attached to your engines. The case is very much opposite. However lets not get indulge into this nonsense and keep the thread sane. I wanted to ask you since you mentioned in reply to my post that an engine with minimum modification will be selected for the LCA. I agree however engines can be modified to suit the airframe or perhaps with minor adjustments to it. For example RD-93 for the JF-17 is actually a mig engine with its gear box adjusted to be fitted in the the JF airframe. ALF-31n with thrust vectoring nozzles was shown for the Chinese J-10. Similar case can be done with any of the engines already in the Indian inventory to be fitted in the LCA. That will be a lot more cost effective as compared to any new engine procured by India. That's my two cent on the issue.

 

[nitesh]

He hasn't said anything for you to jump off your chair. He just expressed his opinion. Why would he or for that matter any one from our side would wish strings to be attached to your engines. The case is very much opposite. However lets not get indulge into this nonsense and keep the thread sane. I wanted to ask you since you mentioned in reply to my post that an engine with minimum modification will be selected for the LCA. I agree however engines can be modified to suit the airframe or perhaps with minor adjustments to it. For example RD-93 for the JF-17 is actually a mig engine with its gear box adjusted to be fitted in the the JF airframe. ALF-31n with thrust vectoring nozzles was shown for the Chinese J-10. Similar case can be done with any of the engines already in the Indian inventory to be fitted in the LCA. That will be a lot more cost effective as compared to any new engine procured by India. That's my two cent on the issue.

Sir, the point is that the LCA is currently running with GE 404 IN20 engine also the whole MRCA contest is about trying to standardize IAF fleet, according to me the IAF force structure by 2015-2020 should look like:

Heavy category (Primarily for Air Superiority role): SU-30 MKI, once PAK-FA comes in to picture it will take this place

Medium category (Primarily Multi roles or specialized Ground Attack/ Air Superiority role): MiG29, Mirage 2k, MiG27, Jaguars (Most of them will be on retirement stage or already retired), The MRCA winner

Light category (Primary Point defense role, occasional multi role): LCA and some MiG21 bis

So, I feel that the engine chosen should be the same as used by the MRCA winner, not from the existing engines used. This will help in reducing the logistics cost.

 

[nitesh]

Guys check this:

Seems like we have found the MRCA winner check this
French firm to help develop engines for Indian fighter planes - Corporate News - livemint.com

 

[Keysersoze]

Guys check this:

Seems like we have found the MRCA winner check this
French firm to help develop engines for Indian fighter planes - Corporate News - livemint.com

Interesting you think the Rafale will win? It seems a expensive way of doing things. buy a very expensive aircraft to get development for the LCA...