HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[Dash]

I am not able to understand one thing here. The issue with Kaveri wasnt the thurst, The issue was it was throwing fan blades. So they have managed to curb it down now.

They want to do the flight testing in coming time, what will Snechma do here?, if they increase the thurst of kaveri which they were supposed to do, then they will do the flight testing again with Tejas...

Is this a feasible idea?

 

[satishkumarcsc]

I am not able to understand one thing here. The issue with Kaveri wasnt the thurst, The issue was it was throwing fan blades. So they have managed to curb it down now.

They want to do the flight testing in coming time, what will Snechma do here?, if they increase the thurst of kaveri which they were supposed to do, then they will do the flight testing again with Tejas...

Is this a feasible idea?

First it was the problem of the engine throwing blades but when this had been fixed a new problem emerged....That was the climb performance of the LCA was not upto the mark and the IAF decided it needed an higher thrust engine. So this led to the de-linking of the Kaveri from the LCA program in the late 2008.

 

[sancho]

I am not able to understand one thing here. The issue with Kaveri wasnt the thurst, The issue was it was throwing fan blades. So they have managed to curb it down now.

They want to do the flight testing in coming time, what will Snechma do here?, if they increase the thurst of kaveri which they were supposed to do, then they will do the flight testing again with Tejas...

Is this a feasible idea?

Thrust was in issue too, because it didn't met the requirements to be used in MK2, that's why the engine competition was needed. The Kaveri-Snecma co-development is (AFAIK) not cleared so far, the last reports said that we show some interest in it again. But of course, it will be a new engine with several changes, so it will need new flight test.

 

[Dash]

Thrust was in issue too, because it didn't met the requirements to be used in MK2, that's why the engine competition was needed. The Kaveri-Snecma co-development is (AFAIK) not cleared so far, the last reports said that we show some interest in it again. But of course, it will be a new engine with several changes, so it will need new flight test.

But Sancho, if you see the thurst of Kaveri, its almost equal to Ge404, what is being in use now. I would say its a still a thurst problem coz IAF wanted a higher thurst engine.

Then the issue with Fan blades, now that seems to have gone.

So as of now it looks like that GTRE is focused in making this engine happen with flight tests in schedule, which is a good thing.

The bad thing what I can sense here is what if they dont achive the thurst again, what if they decide to go with Snechma and then its becomes a new engine, then again fflight tests will be a waste of time...

I mean something is wrong here.
As of now we dont even have any information that Kaveri has increased its thurst, so what about the flight tests now, and what if you change it later...???

 

[satishkumarcsc]

But Sancho, if you see the thurst of Kaveri, its almost equal to Ge404, what is being in use now. I would say its a still a thurst problem coz IAF wanted a higher thurst engine.

Then the issue with Fan blades, now that seems to have gone.

So as of now it looks like that GTRE is focused in making this engine happen with flight tests in schedule, which is a good thing.

The bad thing what I can sense here is what if they dont achive the thurst again, what if they decide to go with Snechma and then its becomes a new engine, then again fflight tests will be a waste of time...

I mean something is wrong here.
As of now we dont even have any information that Kaveri has increased its thurst, so what about the flight tests now, and what if you change it later...???

Dash. No need to worry. The Kaveri has been delinked from the LCA project. They want to make sure that the engine works properly. once the engine is a success Snecma has offered us to integrate their M 88 core with the Kaveri replacing our Kabini core and to be produced in India as they are running short of funds. Snecma officials think that the M88 core being lighter will give the Kaveri more thrust to weight ratio and the costs for developing the M88-3 will be reduced.

Right now Kaveri is headed in the right direction. Now it must get its flight worthiness test solved and integrated to the PV1.

 

[Dash]

Dash. No need to worry. The Kaveri has been delinked from the LCA project. They want to make sure that the engine works properly. once the engine is a success Snecma has offered us to integrate their M 88 core with the Kaveri replacing our Kabini core and to be produced in India as they are running short of funds. Snecma officials think that the M88 core being lighter will give the Kaveri more thrust to weight ratio and the costs for developing the M88-3 will be reduced.

Right now Kaveri is headed in the right direction. Now it must get its flight worthiness test solved and integrated to the PV1.

I know Satis -

the point here is its probably not going in the right direction.
Either you work on thurst yourself and dont take Snechma's help
or take Snechma's help in developing it earlier.

The point is why do we have to speculate here?.
This project is certainly not predictable and measurable.

 

[sudhir007]

Dash. No need to worry. The Kaveri has been delinked from the LCA project. They want to make sure that the engine works properly. once the engine is a success Snecma has offered us to integrate their M 88 core with the Kaveri replacing our Kabini core and to be produced in India as they are running short of funds. Snecma officials think that the M88 core being lighter will give the Kaveri more thrust to weight ratio and the costs for developing the M88-3 will be reduced.

Right now Kaveri is headed in the right direction. Now it must get its flight worthiness test solved and integrated to the PV1.

So as per your comment Rafale will win the MRCA deal. Also we can start testing our AMCA with kaveri engine too

 

[satishkumarcsc]

I know Satis -

the point here is its probably not going in the right direction.
Either you work on thurst yourself and dont take Snechma's help
or take Snechma's help in developing it earlier.

The point is why do we have to speculate here?.
This project is certainly not predictable and measurable.

It is going in the right direction as we first need to evaluate the engine. Then it would be viable for us bring in Snecma. If the engine itself is failed then there is no use in integrating the Snecma core.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

So as per your comment Rafale will win the MRCA deal. Also we can start testing our AMCA with kaveri engine too

Deep down I wish Rafale will win the MMRCA competition. But Snecma is doing it for themselves making the M 88 a JV between France and India. This might be the best option for them to bring down the costs.

 

[Dash]

Deep down I wish Rafale will win the MMRCA competition. But Snecma is doing it for themselves making the M 88 a JV between France and India. This might be the best option for them to bring down the costs.

No Satish -

France already coming with F4 for M-88 with Saudi Arab. They are funding the JV to enable kaveri to 95-100 Kn of thurst. They havent waited for India to do that.

Even i thought the same but something like that is not happening.
Kaveri is not even linked to MRCA, but MRCA winner will have some impact on kaveri for sure.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

No Satish -

France already coming with F4 for M-88 with Saudi Arab. They are funding the JV to enable kaveri to 95-100 Kn of thurst. They havent waited for India to do that.

Even i thought the same but something like that is not happening.
Kaveri is not even linked to MRCA, but MRCA winner will have some impact on kaveri for sure.

That means one thing...we are paying Snecma to gget Kaveri Running just like the SHakthi engine.

 

[Trisonics]

I know Satis -

the point here is its probably not going in the right direction.
Either you work on thurst yourself and dont take Snechma's help
or take Snechma's help in developing it earlier.

The point is why do we have to speculate here?.
This project is certainly not predictable and measurable.

Dash, the issues are not exactly thrust but the engine itself!!! regardless of the thrust, the bare essentials for an engine is reliability and efficiency. As many of the articles above pointed out, we do not have any basic testing facilities, Apart from the obvious tests, we may not even know what other key tests need to be done..what kaveri has done or will do, if successful or not, will give India immense knowledge and an established protocol for dos and dont's...

Once we have that established, we can further work on compression and efficiency to increase thrust..for starters we need an engine that can be trusted and flown with no problems..Kaveri in my view is even more important than tejas itself!

 

[sancho]

But Sancho, if you see the thurst of Kaveri, its almost equal to Ge404, what is being in use now. I would say its a still a thurst problem coz IAF wanted a higher thurst engine.

Then the issue with Fan blades, now that seems to have gone.

So as of now it looks like that GTRE is focused in making this engine happen with flight tests in schedule, which is a good thing.

The bad thing what I can sense here is what if they dont achive the thurst again, what if they decide to go with Snechma and then its becomes a new engine, then again fflight tests will be a waste of time...

I mean something is wrong here.
As of now we dont even have any information that Kaveri has increased its thurst, so what about the flight tests now, and what if you change it later...???

No, Kaveri is reported with an AB thrust of 81kN, the GE 404 in LCA MK1 offers 85kN and even for the LCA MK1 which is said to be underpowered, it wouldn't be sufficiant enough at the moment, let alone mature. But to be mature the Kaveri must be tested, just like we test the LCA prototypes now too.
We might not use it in IAF LCAs, but don't forget that it could be offered for LCA MK1 export customers, instead of an US engine and by the fact that this is the first engine development, any type of experience we can get is valuable for us.

Personally I think, especially by the fact that LCA is a single engine fighter and any problems with the engine could result in a crash of the fighter, we must focus on high reliability of the engine, be it a foreign one, or our Kaveri engine. That's why it's a good decision to go for a proven foreign engine, while further developing the base Kaveri and maybe going for a co-development with Snecma.

No Satish -

France already coming with F4 for M-88 with Saudi Arab. They are funding the JV to enable kaveri to 95-100 Kn of thurst. They havent waited for India to do that.

Even i thought the same but something like that is not happening.
Kaveri is not even linked to MRCA, but MRCA winner will have some impact on kaveri for sure.

I guess you meant UAE and not Saudi, apart from that Satish was not completelly wrong. If we had agreed in the past for the Kaveri co-development, France had used the funds from us to develop the M88-3 for them too. However, it would have been a win win situation, because both countries would get their own 90kN engine.
Now that UAE wants higher thrust too, the French have 2 options and don't have to wait for our decision. They most likely will get half of the funds from UAE and can concentrate on their own engine and integration into Rafale.

 

[Choppers]

Top LCA-Navy Team In Russia For Talks​

A high-level naval delegation from the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) – the government makers of India’s much-anticipated Light Combat Aircraft (LCA-Navy) – is currently in Russia for contract negotiations and issues related to the program’s shore-based test facility (SBTF).

A senior official from the Defense Research & Development Organization (DRDO) told AVIATION WEEK that the team is being lead by Satish Babu, the financial advisor to DRDO chief V.K. Saraswat, who is also ADA’s director general. LCA Navy Program Director C.D. Balaji is also on the ADA team.

“The team is currently holding contract negotiations with Russia’s Rosoboronesport. The talks are mainly revolving around SBTF, that’s coming up at the Naval Air Station, Goa, to flight-test LCA naval variants,” the official said.

A naval prototype of LCA-Navy was officially rolled out by Indian Defense Minister A.K. Antony on July 6. The SBTF would be the Indian Navy’s first such facility.

“Building the SBTF in Goa is a huge technological challenge for ADA and the Indian Navy, and Russian help is critical. It will have to be an exact ship-on-the-shore facility based on India’s Indigenous Aircraft Carrier being built at Cochin Shipyard,” the official said. “The measurements are the same as IAC and it must have all equipment to simulate an aircraft carrier with ski-jump and arrested recovery. Hence, the current project review being undertaken with the Russians is crucial in many ways.”

The SBTF is critical to the program because ADA will be conducting carrier suitability tests for LCA-Navy in Goa after the initial flight trials for the current two prototypes are completed in Bengaluru. ADA hopes to have the ramp for the takeoff area ready by the end of 2011 and the landing area completed by 2012. A full-fledged telemetry unit is also being constructed in Goa as part of SBTF.

Top LCA-Navy Team In Russia For Talks | AVIATION WEEK

 

[jha]

LSP-5 gears up for first flight

ADA and HAL is all geared up to conduct first flight of LSP-5 and as per source ,ground runs are been carried out and first flight is expected by mid or second last week of this month , LSP-5 will be carrying new layout of the cockpit as per suggestions from the pilots who have been flying them and it also will be carrying Radio aid which will be used for Weapons Testing.

LSP-5 will have all integrated sensors that includes having night lighting within the cockpit, and an auto-pilot , this will be third LSP Tejas to be rolled out of HAL Complex this year , in April this year LSP-3 with MMR radar was rolled out making it first Tejas to have an on-board radar .

HAL is also working to complete LSP-6 and have its first flight by end of this year LSP-6 will be used to further explore Angle of Attack (AOA) and also do minor improvements to its airframe , as per unconfirmed information provided by source to www.lca-tejas.org LSP-6 will also be a Test bed aircraft to incorporate newer avionics and other subsystems which will be developed for Tejas Mk-2 ,we have to still verify this claim from multiple sources .