HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions-[Thread 2]

[Armani]

Some of the best images from the official Tejas 2016 calendar -

 

[TimeTraveller]

Dated 17th Feb (video)
Rafael’s Colonel Joseph Horowitz explains the capabilities of the Derby and Python systems at the Singapore Airshow 2016 and gives us updates on seeker technology and trials with India’s Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA).

Chief Points

1. Colonel Joseph Harowitz is Business Development and Marketing Director of Air Superiority Systems Divison of Rafael Advanced Defense Systems
2. The video talks about two Missiles - iDERBY ER and PYTHON 5
3. PYTHON 5 - CCM with new Imaging IR Missile
4. iDerby ER is a new seeker based LR BVR
5. Both these missiles are used together in SPYDER SYSTEM
6. These combo missiles are part of different systems in use by India like
   • LLQRM (Low Level Quick Reaction Missile)
   • SRSAM (Short Range Surface to Air Missile)
   • QRSAM (Quick Reaction Surface to Air Missile)
7. The Spyder and different system is getting upgraded from IDerby to iDerbyER which increases
   • Ground launch interception capability in excess of 30 km
8. The iDerby ER Air to Air version capability is increased to 100 km+
9. All 3 services of India - IAF, IA and IN are using these missiles and combination
10. There are plans to integrate these missiles with Su 30 MKI also.
11. Recently LCA was used to test BOTH these missiles
    • Last week (Feb 9-14), PYTHON 5 WAS LAUNCHED
    • 2 weeks back (Feb 2-7), iDERBY ER was launched
12. The dual use option is liked by all 3 services and are integral part of multiple projects
13. About NEW SEEKER in iDERBY ER
    • The original seeker was developed 30 years ago
    • The new seeker is a SOFTWARE DEFINED SEEKER
    • This seeker can be upgraded and updated according to changing threat situation
    • Technological up-gradation helped in miniaturizing seeker length to half its original size
    • So it created lots of empty space in the missile
    • The two choices were for using the empty space for warhead size increase and other was engine size increase for increasing the range of the missile
    • Ultimately engine size and range increase was selected
    • Derby was MR BVR and now iDERBY ER is a Long Ranged BVR (LR BVR)
14. About LCA and both missiles combo
    • The just launching phase for both missiles was VERY GOOD
    • COMING MONTH FULL FIRING of the range will be done
    • LCA is a very good and capable fighter
    • This type of missiles will suit LCA perfectly

So We had launched both missiles Python and IDerby ER from LCA and Spyder system uses both...
Solid news... lots of points....

@Abingdonboy @AUSTERLITZ @MilSpec @nair @scorpionx @Vauban @Taygibay @WAJsal @SpArK @Icarus @anant_s @Picdelamirand-oil @randomradio @cerberus @knight11 @Levina @ranjeet @SR-91 @raktaka @Armani @surya kiran @Water Car Engineer @Nilgiri @sathya @GORKHALI @Tshering22 @Brahmaputra Mail @Roybot @Skull and Bones @GURU DUTT @Guynextdoor2 @SRP @mpk1988 @ni8mare @danish_vij @AMCA @Ind4Ever

@Ankit Kumar @mkb95 @kaykay @kurup @sarjenprabhu @DavidSling @500 @TimeTraveller @

Thanks For Tagging Sir..............................Nice..........

 

[Bheemsen]

This will be posting in wrong thread but can someone detail out latest news about jaguar upgrade program , how many will be upgraded and what is current progress.

 

[knight11]

 

[Nilgiri]

Tejas LSP-3 flies with new Cobham quartz radome......

Tejas LSP-3 flies with new Cobham quartz radome - India

 

[W@rwolf]

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Where in the F is SP2?

@Abingdonboy @MilSpec

Both HAL and ADA havent given a proper explanation. It was due a YEAR+ AGO!! This is insane!!

A year+ for one bird, and missing a timeline you made up is unbelievable! Both HAL and ADA should be penalized.

 

[MilSpec]

Where in the F is SP2?

@Abingdonboy @MilSpec

Both HAL and ADA havent given a proper explanation. It was due a YEAR+ AGO!! This is insane!!

A year+ for one bird, and missing a timeline you made up is unbelievable! Both HAL and ADA should be penalized.

No Idea, But yes, it's quite frustrating.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

No Idea, But yes, it's quite frustrating.

This is an utter embarrassment for both of them, especially HAL, while it's trying to suck up every other program out there, or trying to revive programs that's not needed. Seriously, they havent handed nothing over, for a god damn year plus... Seriously, if they keep this up, they're going to **** up the whole Tejas timeline(mk1,mk1a,mk2). I cant believe they havent even given an official statement, all they have said was a new deadline, which they crossed again and again. Wtf?

 

[AnnoyingOrange]

Tejas ready to spit fire during Iron Fist

Within a month after scripting history in Bahrain with its maiden flying display outside Indian skies, the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas is ready for the next mission. Sources confirm to OneIndia on Thursday that two Tejas variants are likely to be part of the upcoming Iron Fist, set to begin on March 18.

A total of three Tejas variants will be made ‘hot-ready' for Iron Fist, with one being on the stand-by mode. In an interview to OneIndia, during the IAF's 83rd anniversary celebrations in 2015, a top Aeronautical Development Agency official had said that Tejas would be demonstrating the weapon firing skills during Iron Fist-2016. "Tejas will be demonstrating the BVR (Beyond Visual Range) missile launching and stick bombing capabilities with tandem bomb carrier in swing role," the official had said. Interestingly, Tejas had recently demonstrated firing the Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile Derby at Jamnagar. It is expected to fire the Close Combat Missile Python-5 soon. Iron Fist is IAF's largest fire power demonstration event with the network-centric warfare capabilities being exhibited to fullest. It is scheduled to begin at the Chandan Field Firing Range in Jaisalmer from March 18. The IAF had demonstrated its day-dusk-night operational capabilities during Iron Fist-2013. Two variants of Tejas had participated during the 2013 show held in the month of February. Over 200 aircraft demonstrated their capabilities spread across five days in 2013. The President, the PM and a host of other top officials are expected to witness Iron Fist-2016.

OneIndia Special: Tejas ready to spit fire during Iron Fist - Oneindia

 

[MilSpec]

This is an utter embarrassment for both of them, especially HAL, while it's trying to suck up every other program out there, or trying to revive programs that's not needed. Seriously, they havent handed nothing over, for a god damn year plus... Seriously, if they keep this up, they're going to **** up the whole Tejas timeline(mk1,mk1a,mk2). I cant believe they havent even given an official statement, all they have said was a new deadline, which they crossed again and again. Wtf?

If I had to speculate, I would say that, IAF would prefer a to get SP2 to modified 1P spec and thats why they are holding off.

 

[MilSpec]

@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy , Any news on R77 qualifications for LCA?

 

[Armani]

 

[Water Car Engineer]

If I had to speculate, I would say that, IAF would prefer a to get SP2 to modified 1P spec and thats why they are holding off.

It cant be, because HAL themselves keep updating on a deadline, which they missed again.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@MilSpec

Its theoretically possible to integrate R77 but there is a cost part in terms of external needs.. That is in spite of successful integration of R73E with Tejas.

Let me explain it.. A little long post.. (Pls dont mind)

What i understand initially in 2007 when LCA first fired R73 E, it was a un-guided autonomous mode launch

Then later in 2010, a more successful firing did happen for R73E

TEJAS SUCCESSFULLY LAUNCHES CLOSE COMBAT MISSILE


What actually Tejas did was best described by Air Marshal MSD Wollen who was also HAL chairman from 1984 to 1988

The entire avionics and weapon systems are con-figured around three 1553 B data bus. Mission oriented computation/flight management is through a 32 hit computer. Information: from sensors (e.g. multi-mode radar, IRST, radar/laser/missile launch-warning receivers); from the inertial navigation System with embedded GPS; from targeting pod (FLIR, laser designator) are presented to the pilot on a head-up-display and head-down-displays. A helmet mounted target designator steers radar and missile seekers for early target acquisition (during a 'close-in' air-to-air engagement with a Vympel R-73 missile, currently the best dog-fight' missile in the world). Laser guided bombs and TV guided missiles, require a pilot to initially 'zero-in' the laser designator or missile-mounted TV camera, on the ground target. Considerable engineering effort and expertise is necessary to achieve avionics-weapon integration and to prove the integration by live trials.

Featured Articles | Tejas - India's Light Combat Aircraft

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From this what i understand is

• The initial launch in 2007 was not with the radar MMR on board and target was to fire after fitting it
• In 2010 tests, MMR was on board but integration was needing 3rd party interface as Radar is Israeli 2032 and missile is Russian R73E
• Now via 1533B data bus, this integration was seamlessly done as confirmed by MSD Wollen and allowed R73E to be fired.
• Bear in mind R73E is a CCM or at best WVR missile.
• But R77 is a BVR missile which will require a mid course guidance via a datalink
• In this case of R77, we do require to use a datalink pod like the ones used in Russian jets which uses a big radar pod on centerline for handling all missiles for their jets (old and new)

See here in these 2 pictures

The one on the Su-25TM is the 3-CM waveband Kopyo-25 radar pod for use with the R-77 and other missiles.

A closer picture of the pod in centerline

• This kind of POD structure does not work well for Tejas which is already looking to reduce such extra packages and use every available hardpoints for either fuel or weapons. Consuming a centerline POD for just R77 is way too much wastage of space and utility.
• The other way is to use the original source code interfacing via the 1533B Bus and let the missile being guided by Israeli radar.. This is where there are issues
  • First its difficult to get codes from Russian side not just bcz of only monetary reason.
  • Secondly, Russia believes such codes would then lead to issues, as such codes can help western (read american via Israel) to devise counter measures for their missiles.
  • In a manner these codes and measures are their crown jewels/ prized possession and thus they dont want to part it with anybody but are comfortable via usage of a external pod method.

Then what exactly happened in R73E case?

• The R73E firing is well explained by MSD Wollen above of what was use and how.
  • A R73 bcz of being a CCM it uses Lock On Before Launch (LOBL) need via the Helmet mounted Designator and basic 1533B Bus for radar cues when its still in Pylon as hinted by MSD Wollen.
  • The Same R73 in Lock On After Launch Mode or LOAL mode, its generally just launched in the direction of the bogey and its IR seeker takes over post launch and directs the missile towards the target.
  • This LOAL mode was what has been tested in weapons trial in 2010 and subsequently in exercises

• Thats why it makes sense to use Israeli radar 2032 and later 2052 with Derby/i Derby ER for BVR and Python 5 for CCM
• The Astra missile with our own Ku Bank seeker will be able to do the same as iDerby-ER due to everything including codes with us which we can then utilize via 1533B bus to successfully mate it with the 2032/2052
• The present Astra would face a similar need of a POD based guidance due to it having a Russian seeker as 1533B interface wont allow mid course guidance.

@Abingdonboy @Vauban @Taygibay @AUSTERLITZ