HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions-[Thread 2]

[PARIKRAMA]

Dated 17th Feb (video)
Rafael’s Colonel Joseph Horowitz explains the capabilities of the Derby and Python systems at the Singapore Airshow 2016 and gives us updates on seeker technology and trials with India’s Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA).

Chief Points

1. Colonel Joseph Harowitz is Business Development and Marketing Director of Air Superiority Systems Divison of Rafael Advanced Defense Systems
2. The video talks about two Missiles - iDERBY ER and PYTHON 5
3. PYTHON 5 - CCM with new Imaging IR Missile
4. iDerby ER is a new seeker based LR BVR
5. Both these missiles are used together in SPYDER SYSTEM
6. These combo missiles are part of different systems in use by India like
   • LLQRM (Low Level Quick Reaction Missile)
   • SRSAM (Short Range Surface to Air Missile)
   • QRSAM (Quick Reaction Surface to Air Missile)
7. The Spyder and different system is getting upgraded from IDerby to iDerbyER which increases
   • Ground launch interception capability in excess of 30 km
8. The iDerby ER Air to Air version capability is increased to 100 km+
9. All 3 services of India - IAF, IA and IN are using these missiles and combination
10. There are plans to integrate these missiles with Su 30 MKI also.
11. Recently LCA was used to test BOTH these missiles
    • Last week (Feb 9-14), PYTHON 5 WAS LAUNCHED
    • 2 weeks back (Feb 2-7), iDERBY ER was launched
12. The dual use option is liked by all 3 services and are integral part of multiple projects
13. About NEW SEEKER in iDERBY ER
    • The original seeker was developed 30 years ago
    • The new seeker is a SOFTWARE DEFINED SEEKER
    • This seeker can be upgraded and updated according to changing threat situation
    • Technological up-gradation helped in miniaturizing seeker length to half its original size
    • So it created lots of empty space in the missile
    • The two choices were for using the empty space for warhead size increase and other was engine size increase for increasing the range of the missile
    • Ultimately engine size and range increase was selected
    • Derby was MR BVR and now iDERBY ER is a Long Ranged BVR (LR BVR)
14. About LCA and both missiles combo
    • The just launching phase for both missiles was VERY GOOD
    • COMING MONTH FULL FIRING of the range will be done
    • LCA is a very good and capable fighter
    • This type of missiles will suit LCA perfectly

So We had launched both missiles Python and IDerby ER from LCA and Spyder system uses both...
Solid news... lots of points....

@Abingdonboy @AUSTERLITZ @MilSpec @nair @scorpionx @Vauban @Taygibay @WAJsal @SpArK @Icarus @anant_s @Picdelamirand-oil @randomradio @cerberus @knight11 @Levina @ranjeet @SR-91 @raktaka @Armani @surya kiran @Water Car Engineer @Nilgiri @sathya @GORKHALI @Tshering22 @Brahmaputra Mail @Roybot @Skull and Bones @GURU DUTT @Guynextdoor2 @SRP @mpk1988 @ni8mare @danish_vij @AMCA @Ind4Ever

@Ankit Kumar @mkb95 @kaykay @kurup @sarjenprabhu @DavidSling @500 @TimeTraveller @

 

[raktaka]

Dated 17th Feb (video)
Rafael’s Colonel Joseph Horowitz explains the capabilities of the Derby and Python systems at the Singapore Airshow 2016 and gives us updates on seeker technology and trials with India’s Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA).

Chief Points

1. Colonel Joseph Harowitz is Business Development and Marketing Director of Air Superiority Systems Divison of Rafael Advanced Defense Systems
2. The video talks about two Missiles - iDERBY ER and PYTHON 5
3. PYTHON 5 - CCM with new Imaging IR Missile
4. iDerby ER is a new seeker based LR BVR
5. Both these missiles are used together in SPYDER SYSTEM
6. These combo missiles are part of different systems in use by India like
   • LLQRM (Low Level Quick Reaction Missile)
   • SRSAM (Short Range Surface to Air Missile)
   • QRSAM (Quick Reaction Surface to Air Missile)
7. The Spyder and different system is getting upgraded from IDerby to iDerbyER which increases
   • Ground launch interception capability in excess of 30 km
8. The iDerby ER Air to Air version capability is increased to 100 km+
9. All 3 services of India - IAF, IA and IN are using these missiles and combination
10. There are plans to integrate these missiles with Su 30 MKI also.
11. Recently LCA was used to test BOTH these missiles
    • Last week (Feb 9-14), PYTHON 5 WAS LAUNCHED
    • 2 weeks back (Feb 2-7), iDERBY ER was launched
12. The dual use option is liked by all 3 services and are integral part of multiple projects
13. About NEW SEEKER in iDERBY ER
    • The original seeker was developed 30 years ago
    • The new seeker is a SOFTWARE DEFINED SEEKER
    • This seeker can be upgraded and updated according to changing threat situation
    • Technological up-gradation helped in miniaturizing seeker length to half its original size
    • So it created lots of empty space in the missile
    • The two choices were for using the empty space for warhead size increase and other was engine size increase for increasing the range of the missile
    • Ultimately engine size and range increase was selected
    • Derby was MR BVR and now iDERBY ER is a Long Ranged BVR (LR BVR)
14. About LCA and both missiles combo
    • The just launching phase for both missiles was VERY GOOD
    • COMING MONTH FULL FIRING of the range will be done
    • LCA is a very good and capable fighter
    • This type of missiles will suit LCA perfectly

So We had launched both missiles Python and IDerby ER from LCA and Spyder system uses both...
Solid news... lots of points....

@Abingdonboy @AUSTERLITZ @MilSpec @nair @scorpionx @Vauban @Taygibay @WAJsal @SpArK @Icarus @anant_s @Picdelamirand-oil @randomradio @cerberus @knight11 @Levina @ranjeet @SR-91 @raktaka @Armani @surya kiran @Water Car Engineer @Nilgiri @sathya @GORKHALI @Tshering22 @Brahmaputra Mail @Roybot @Skull and Bones @GURU DUTT @Guynextdoor2 @SRP @mpk1988 @ni8mare @danish_vij @AMCA @Ind4Ever

@Ankit Kumar @mkb95 @kaykay @kurup @sarjenprabhu @DavidSling @500 @TimeTraveller @

What Radar was used for testing the missiles with LCA ?

 

[PARIKRAMA]

What Radar was used for testing the missiles with LCA ?

In all probability 2032, Col Joseph did not mention anything on radar

 

[raktaka]

In all probability 2032, Col Joseph did not mention anything on radar

Without the Main Radar, the missile is only half the story.

 

[surya kiran]

Joseph

It was tested in a 'Ballistic Non guided Mode'. Are you sure that 2032 is onboard? LSP 7 had fired the missile. I was under the impression LSP 8 would have 2032, since that is going to be the production standard.

 

[SRP]

Dated 17th Feb (video)
Rafael’s Colonel Joseph Horowitz explains the capabilities of the Derby and Python systems at the Singapore Airshow 2016 and gives us updates on seeker technology and trials with India’s Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA).

Chief Points

1. Colonel Joseph Harowitz is Business Development and Marketing Director of Air Superiority Systems Divison of Rafael Advanced Defense Systems
2. The video talks about two Missiles - iDERBY ER and PYTHON 5
3. PYTHON 5 - CCM with new Imaging IR Missile
4. iDerby ER is a new seeker based LR BVR
5. Both these missiles are used together in SPYDER SYSTEM
6. These combo missiles are part of different systems in use by India like
   • LLQRM (Low Level Quick Reaction Missile)
   • SRSAM (Short Range Surface to Air Missile)
   • QRSAM (Quick Reaction Surface to Air Missile)
7. The Spyder and different system is getting upgraded from IDerby to iDerbyER which increases
   • Ground launch interception capability in excess of 30 km
8. The iDerby ER Air to Air version capability is increased to 100 km+
9. All 3 services of India - IAF, IA and IN are using these missiles and combination
10. There are plans to integrate these missiles with Su 30 MKI also.
11. Recently LCA was used to test BOTH these missiles
    • Last week (Feb 9-14), PYTHON 5 WAS LAUNCHED
    • 2 weeks back (Feb 2-7), iDERBY ER was launched
12. The dual use option is liked by all 3 services and are integral part of multiple projects
13. About NEW SEEKER in iDERBY ER
    • The original seeker was developed 30 years ago
    • The new seeker is a SOFTWARE DEFINED SEEKER
    • This seeker can be upgraded and updated according to changing threat situation
    • Technological up-gradation helped in miniaturizing seeker length to half its original size
    • So it created lots of empty space in the missile
    • The two choices were for using the empty space for warhead size increase and other was engine size increase for increasing the range of the missile
    • Ultimately engine size and range increase was selected
    • Derby was MR BVR and now iDERBY ER is a Long Ranged BVR (LR BVR)
14. About LCA and both missiles combo
    • The just launching phase for both missiles was VERY GOOD
    • COMING MONTH FULL FIRING of the range will be done
    • LCA is a very good and capable fighter
    • This type of missiles will suit LCA perfectly

So We had launched both missiles Python and IDerby ER from LCA and Spyder system uses both...
Solid news... lots of points....

@Abingdonboy @AUSTERLITZ @MilSpec @nair @scorpionx @Vauban @Taygibay @WAJsal @SpArK @Icarus @anant_s @Picdelamirand-oil @randomradio @cerberus @knight11 @Levina @ranjeet @SR-91 @raktaka @Armani @surya kiran @Water Car Engineer @Nilgiri @sathya @GORKHALI @Tshering22 @Brahmaputra Mail @Roybot @Skull and Bones @GURU DUTT @Guynextdoor2 @SRP @mpk1988 @ni8mare @danish_vij @AMCA @Ind4Ever

@Ankit Kumar @mkb95 @kaykay @kurup @sarjenprabhu @DavidSling @500 @TimeTraveller @

Great news. We are racing towards FOC.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Without the Main Radar, the missile is only half the story.

It will be the 2032, there has never been an issue with intergrating this on the LCA- the problems faced earlier were casued by the radome (now addressed with a Quartz crystal radome).

Great news. We are racing towards FOC.

2016 is the year for sure.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

It was tested in a 'Ballistic Non guided Mode'. Are you sure that 2032 is onboard? LSP 7 had and ed the missile. I was under the impression LSP 8 would have 2032, since that is going to be the production standard.

It was tested in a 'Ballistic Non guided Mode'. Are you sure that 2032 is onboard? LSP 7 had fired the missile. I was under the impression LSP 8 would have 2032, since that is going to be the production standard.

It's with 2032..
See here DRDO says when LSP 7 test flight started

During the test
flight, performance of the aircraft systems including Multi-mode Radar
(MMR), Helmet Mounted Display System (HMDS), Auto-pilot and
Instrument Landing System (ILS) was satisfactory, providing a moment
of pride for all the stake holders which include ADA, HAL, IAF,
CEMILAC, DG AQA, ADE and NAL among others.
http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/dpi/press_release/DRDOPress_release_LSP7.pdf

 

[Taygibay]

I have 2 queries:
1. What is the exact difference between flying-wing & Delta wing, since both have Delta shaped wings covering the entire fuselage?
2. Since hard points under both the wings have to carry equal weight for balance, how it is maintained once a missile or bomb is fired from under one of the wings?

1. Huge actually! A flying wing has no fuselage to speak of for instance.
That impression of yours that delta wings cover the whole fuselage is due to skillful blending of the 2,
in order to reduce drag mostly, but is incorrect. In a flying wing, there is no longitudinal axial shape
as the engines and intakes are inside the wing shape. It reacts very differently esp. at high speeds.
Succinctly, a delta fighter with a central fuselage has less chances of stall occurring & can go faster.

2. Nowadays, that's an FCS function. You must know that the planes are always under FCS control.
That's a derivative of their instability. The position of the plane is impossible to hold without feedback.
They're designed thus to add maneuverability. But a design like that would require the pilot to cons-
tantly adapt the pitch axis and even combat roll with very fine tuning making it nearly impossible to fly.
Unless you add modern flight controls ( electric / electronic ) allowing a program ( FCS ) to "drive".
That system is more than able within reason to handle a dissymmetric load even at launch.
Of course, it is not best to do so and a mission planner will include just the right weapons in ad hoc
numbers so that likelihood of a return run in asymmetric configuration is minimized. But if the pilot
has to drop an uneven numbers of bombs, he will and the aircraft will return safely.
There is one case where a given weapon is so big in relation to its carrier AC that you will chose
to have it on the centerline only.

All in all, at the cost of modern ordnance, throwing a cruise missile away under your left wing to
offset the right wing one that you just launched is not an option really.

Have a great day, Tay.


Emplanture = where the wing and body meet & they meet because they are not one and the same.

 

[Armani]

Dated 17th Feb (video)
Rafael’s Colonel Joseph Horowitz explains the capabilities of the Derby and Python systems at the Singapore Airshow 2016 and gives us updates on seeker technology and trials with India’s Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA).

Chief Points

1. Colonel Joseph Harowitz is Business Development and Marketing Director of Air Superiority Systems Divison of Rafael Advanced Defense Systems
2. The video talks about two Missiles - iDERBY ER and PYTHON 5
3. PYTHON 5 - CCM with new Imaging IR Missile
4. iDerby ER is a new seeker based LR BVR
5. Both these missiles are used together in SPYDER SYSTEM
6. These combo missiles are part of different systems in use by India like
   • LLQRM (Low Level Quick Reaction Missile)
   • SRSAM (Short Range Surface to Air Missile)
   • QRSAM (Quick Reaction Surface to Air Missile)
7. The Spyder and different system is getting upgraded from IDerby to iDerbyER which increases
   • Ground launch interception capability in excess of 30 km
8. The iDerby ER Air to Air version capability is increased to 100 km+
9. All 3 services of India - IAF, IA and IN are using these missiles and combination
10. There are plans to integrate these missiles with Su 30 MKI also.
11. Recently LCA was used to test BOTH these missiles
    • Last week (Feb 9-14), PYTHON 5 WAS LAUNCHED
    • 2 weeks back (Feb 2-7), iDERBY ER was launched
12. The dual use option is liked by all 3 services and are integral part of multiple projects
13. About NEW SEEKER in iDERBY ER
    • The original seeker was developed 30 years ago
    • The new seeker is a SOFTWARE DEFINED SEEKER
    • This seeker can be upgraded and updated according to changing threat situation
    • Technological up-gradation helped in miniaturizing seeker length to half its original size
    • So it created lots of empty space in the missile
    • The two choices were for using the empty space for warhead size increase and other was engine size increase for increasing the range of the missile
    • Ultimately engine size and range increase was selected
    • Derby was MR BVR and now iDERBY ER is a Long Ranged BVR (LR BVR)
14. About LCA and both missiles combo
    • The just launching phase for both missiles was VERY GOOD
    • COMING MONTH FULL FIRING of the range will be done
    • LCA is a very good and capable fighter
    • This type of missiles will suit LCA perfectly

So We had launched both missiles Python and IDerby ER from LCA and Spyder system uses both...
Solid news... lots of points....

@Abingdonboy @AUSTERLITZ @MilSpec @nair @scorpionx @Vauban @Taygibay @WAJsal @SpArK @Icarus @anant_s @Picdelamirand-oil @randomradio @cerberus @knight11 @Levina @ranjeet @SR-91 @raktaka @Armani @surya kiran @Water Car Engineer @Nilgiri @sathya @GORKHALI @Tshering22 @Brahmaputra Mail @Roybot @Skull and Bones @GURU DUTT @Guynextdoor2 @SRP @mpk1988 @ni8mare @danish_vij @AMCA @Ind4Ever

@Ankit Kumar @mkb95 @kaykay @kurup @sarjenprabhu @DavidSling @500 @TimeTraveller @

If they can work around any possible wiring issues, I'm considering the possibility of putting Python-5 on the MiG-29K for the IN, they will be joined by the NLCA Mk-2 carrying the same missile in future. Derby is going to be a bigger problem for Russian birds as I don't think they can be integrated with the radars properly. If they work together with the Russians to sort that out...the iDerby-ER will have a bigger market in India than before.

Although we have to consider the possibility than if Derby-ER is integrated, it might mitigate the benefits of using Astra Mk-1 and that could hit the indigenous industry pretty hard. As of now Astra has no problem with Russian birds as the seeker being used presently is Russian (derived from R-77), the indigenous one is still in development.

 

[ni8mare]

Dated 17th Feb (video)
Rafael’s Colonel Joseph Horowitz explains the capabilities of the Derby and Python systems at the Singapore Airshow 2016 and gives us updates on seeker technology and trials with India’s Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA).

Chief Points

1. Colonel Joseph Harowitz is Business Development and Marketing Director of Air Superiority Systems Divison of Rafael Advanced Defense Systems
2. The video talks about two Missiles - iDERBY ER and PYTHON 5
3. PYTHON 5 - CCM with new Imaging IR Missile
4. iDerby ER is a new seeker based LR BVR
5. Both these missiles are used together in SPYDER SYSTEM
6. These combo missiles are part of different systems in use by India like
   • LLQRM (Low Level Quick Reaction Missile)
   • SRSAM (Short Range Surface to Air Missile)
   • QRSAM (Quick Reaction Surface to Air Missile)
7. The Spyder and different system is getting upgraded from IDerby to iDerbyER which increases
   • Ground launch interception capability in excess of 30 km
8. The iDerby ER Air to Air version capability is increased to 100 km+
9. All 3 services of India - IAF, IA and IN are using these missiles and combination
10. There are plans to integrate these missiles with Su 30 MKI also.
11. Recently LCA was used to test BOTH these missiles
    • Last week (Feb 9-14), PYTHON 5 WAS LAUNCHED
    • 2 weeks back (Feb 2-7), iDERBY ER was launched
12. The dual use option is liked by all 3 services and are integral part of multiple projects
13. About NEW SEEKER in iDERBY ER
    • The original seeker was developed 30 years ago
    • The new seeker is a SOFTWARE DEFINED SEEKER
    • This seeker can be upgraded and updated according to changing threat situation
    • Technological up-gradation helped in miniaturizing seeker length to half its original size
    • So it created lots of empty space in the missile
    • The two choices were for using the empty space for warhead size increase and other was engine size increase for increasing the range of the missile
    • Ultimately engine size and range increase was selected
    • Derby was MR BVR and now iDERBY ER is a Long Ranged BVR (LR BVR)
14. About LCA and both missiles combo
    • The just launching phase for both missiles was VERY GOOD
    • COMING MONTH FULL FIRING of the range will be done
    • LCA is a very good and capable fighter
    • This type of missiles will suit LCA perfectly

So We had launched both missiles Python and IDerby ER from LCA and Spyder system uses both...
Solid news... lots of points....

Very good news one step closer to FOC and thanks for tag

 

[Abingdonboy]

If they can work around any possible wiring issues, I'm considering the possibility of putting Python-5 on the MiG-29K for the IN, they will be joined by the NLCA Mk-2 carrying the same missile in future. Derby is going to be a bigger problem for Russian birds as I don't think they can be integrated with the radars properly. If they work together with the Russians to sort that out...the iDerby-ER will have a bigger market in India than before.

Although we have to consider the possibility than if Derby-ER is integrated, it might mitigate the benefits of using Astra Mk-1 and that could hit the indigenous industry pretty hard. As of now Astra has no problem with Russian birds as the seeker being used presently is Russian (derived from R-77), the indigenous one is still in development.

Increased commonality is exactly what I am hoping to see and this can be further increased with intergration of both/either missile on the IAF's MKIs. However, given the nature of operating carrier fighters- it would be far more benefical to the IN to have a common weapons suite (as much as possible) for their entire fighter fleet as logistics are one of the biggest hurdles in operating carriers far from your shores.

On the point about the Derby-ER being a competitor to the Astra and potentially hurting that project- I don't think so. Indian products will have a significant cost advantadge over Western products for the foreseeable future so the Derby-ER will be a great addtion to cover the Indian Military's immediate needs and indigenous products will be there for the long term requirements. Addtionally, another factor is interoperability and here again Indian products will have a compeititve advantadge over foreign offerings as they are being built for Indian service and Indian conditons.

 

[sathya]

Dated 17th Feb (video)
Rafael’s Colonel Joseph Horowitz explains the capabilities of the Derby and Python systems at the Singapore Airshow 2016 and gives us updates on seeker technology and trials with India’s Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA).

Chief Points

1. Colonel Joseph Harowitz is Business Development and Marketing Director of Air Superiority Systems Divison of Rafael Advanced Defense Systems
2. The video talks about two Missiles - iDERBY ER and PYTHON 5
3. PYTHON 5 - CCM with new Imaging IR Missile
4. iDerby ER is a new seeker based LR BVR
5. Both these missiles are used together in SPYDER SYSTEM
6. These combo missiles are part of different systems in use by India like
   • LLQRM (Low Level Quick Reaction Missile)
   • SRSAM (Short Range Surface to Air Missile)
   • QRSAM (Quick Reaction Surface to Air Missile)
7. The Spyder and different system is getting upgraded from IDerby to iDerbyER which increases
   • Ground launch interception capability in excess of 30 km
8. The iDerby ER Air to Air version capability is increased to 100 km+
9. All 3 services of India - IAF, IA and IN are using these missiles and combination
10. There are plans to integrate these missiles with Su 30 MKI also.
11. Recently LCA was used to test BOTH these missiles
    • Last week (Feb 9-14), PYTHON 5 WAS LAUNCHED
    • 2 weeks back (Feb 2-7), iDERBY ER was launched
12. The dual use option is liked by all 3 services and are integral part of multiple projects
13. About NEW SEEKER in iDERBY ER
    • The original seeker was developed 30 years ago
    • The new seeker is a SOFTWARE DEFINED SEEKER
    • This seeker can be upgraded and updated according to changing threat situation
    • Technological up-gradation helped in miniaturizing seeker length to half its original size
    • So it created lots of empty space in the missile
    • The two choices were for using the empty space for warhead size increase and other was engine size increase for increasing the range of the missile
    • Ultimately engine size and range increase was selected
    • Derby was MR BVR and now iDERBY ER is a Long Ranged BVR (LR BVR)
14. About LCA and both missiles combo
    • The just launching phase for both missiles was VERY GOOD
    • COMING MONTH FULL FIRING of the range will be done
    • LCA is a very good and capable fighter
    • This type of missiles will suit LCA perfectly

So We had launched both missiles Python and IDerby ER from LCA and Spyder system uses both...
Solid news... lots of points....

@Abingdonboy @AUSTERLITZ @MilSpec @nair @scorpionx @Vauban @Taygibay @WAJsal @SpArK @Icarus @anant_s @Picdelamirand-oil @randomradio @cerberus @knight11 @Levina @ranjeet @SR-91 @raktaka @Armani @surya kiran @Water Car Engineer @Nilgiri @sathya @GORKHALI @Tshering22 @Brahmaputra Mail @Roybot @Skull and Bones @GURU DUTT @Guynextdoor2 @SRP @mpk1988 @ni8mare @danish_vij @AMCA @Ind4Ever

@Ankit Kumar @mkb95 @kaykay @kurup @sarjenprabhu @DavidSling @500 @TimeTraveller @

When he showed this missile was tested ,
I think he generally showed it as derby, not specifically to I derby ER.
Can we correlate with other info ?
Like we bought/ brought I derby ER for testing ..or I derby ER was tested in LCA ?

 

[PARIKRAMA]

When he showed this missile was tested ,
I think he generally showed it as derby, not specifically to I derby ER.
Can we correlate with other info ?
Like we bought/ brought I derby ER for testing ..or I derby ER was tested in LCA ?

Well with honesty all the video he talked about ER only.. So i am assuming its ER we tested.. I may be wrong also..

Whether its ER or normal Derby, whichever is the case, its a step in +ve direction...

Hopefully with full radar guidance mode, the test will reveal more about the missile..

 

[Abingdonboy]

When he showed this missile was tested ,
I think he generally showed it as derby, not specifically to I derby ER.
Can we correlate with other info ?
Like we bought/ brought I derby ER for testing ..or I derby ER was tested in LCA ?

I'm pretty sure he said the ER was still under development itself so it can't be in Indian hands.