HAL pegs price of Tejas fighter at Rs 162 crore

[AUz]

LOL, am I retarded? No- It's you who is retarded and trying to sell an average as something good. They did not induct it because it is a poor man's aircraft , even if you try to sell it as anything but a second rate aircraft. and not inducting a block version of an aircraft( your US example) is not similar to inducting the aircraft period.

No retarded soul, it is surely you who is mentally retarded and with comprehension problems.

I said that in price range of $15m , it is a very good aircraft. Everything is relative..In conext of PAF and its need, its a good aircraft...but in context of China, its not a good aircraft because Chinese don't need to mass deploy a "light combat aircraft"...Their doctrine is different.

Is JF-17 a "good" aircraft compared to say Rafael? Only an idiot won't know this..but then again, you are an indiot

But is JF-17 a "good" aircraft in terms of PAF and with a price tag of $15 million-$20million? Heck. Yes. It is a very good aircraft..

JF-17 is a "medium tier" aircraft...and in that role, its good enough....

JF-17 Thunder block 1 is superior to previous versions of F-16s...and next blocks would be right up there with later versions of F-16s...

Superboy

No JF17 is actually the least advanced

it has the worst flight control system with old fashioned stable axis
zero compsites
And relys on russian engines which are very maintenance high and have a short shelf life
only used to date chineasse weapons and missles.
JF17 has no Helmet mounted system for the pilot

in contrast

both Gripen/lca use composite airframe builds which is far stronger and gives lower rcs
both lca/gripen use GE engines of USA origin dare i say more on quality
both LCA/GRIPEN will be using western missles like israeli python 5 derby amraam & asraam.
Lca uses a dash 5 HMS too

The western fusion of technology gives both tejas and gripen the edge defo

another indiot with NO idea what he is talking about....

All the bold parts are exclusively wrong.

Go through some JF-17 threads, JF-17 information thread, before you make it obvious that you are an "indian" (aka retarded)...

lastly, come back when the shitbag plane gets ready and deployed fully operational...i'm talking about legendary failure..Tejas

 

[Fawkes]

JF-17 is the world's first fighter jet equipped with DSI, having achieved IOC when its first squadron was raised in early 2010. Technologically wise, it is currently the most advanced in its class, equipped with DSI and MAWS, which the other two in its class, Gripen and Tejas lack, and only the former is operational.

DSI was first tested on F 16 block 30 in 1996 by Lockheed. And if i remember correctly, JF 17 is yet to achieve its FOC

 

[armchairPrivate]

Does this thing come with sunroof, Am/FM stereo, MP3 player, GPS, automatic 7-speed trans, tinted windows, and a wet bar?

For that price, it better.

 

[SQ8]

But they also mention the 9800Kg CTOW and the numbers they gave actually add up:

13300Kg MTOW - 9800Kg CTOW = 3500Kg external payload

Just as they say in the brochure and like ADA confirms as well, the fact that MK2 needs more fuel capacity also speaks against the fact that the 782Kg would include additional internal fuel, but is the weight for other weights and I have seen older HAL specboards where the 2458Kg internal fuel were given as well, although I generally don't trust HAL specs.



Even in the last ADA brochure, the emptyweight is given with 6560Kg, same as on the gov.in website, ADAs own website and DRDOs brochures, which is why I think that figure is the given for the MK1 production version, without test equipment. If it would include the test equipment, the other numbers wouldn't add up anymore, since the emptyweight would be lower, the payload and MTOW higher.

Can you give us the same example for the JF17? What is the clean take off weight, or what is the take off weight of it with wingtip missiles?

That DRDO weight is a mystery then. Because it makes no sense where does 782kg disappear. I still think they quoted the capacity of the Test Tejas and not the LSP.. since in the LSP this test equipment may not be present.

I dont think the data by the drdo editorial committee is accurate, the the operational clean weight is 9800 minus the empty weight 6560 is 3240kg of internal fuel.... and not 2458 kg,

Which is straight forward calculation. I do think my assertion on the DRDO weight anomaly may be correct. The Tejas may carry more fuel as its vertical stabilizer also has fuel tanks. However, some further official source should solve this mystery.
One idea that I have is that the fuel capacity quoted is for the two seat Tejas.

huh, they can't purchase something that is not yet available to purchase and yet to be inducted. They india can't sit and wait for something and be without any aircrafts. at least they will purchase and use 200, chinese are stayed away from J17- period.

Im clearly talking to a simpleton in these matters. Lets try again.. why did India purchase the MKI? Why not order 700 Mig-29s.

 

[GURU DUTT]

That DRDO weight is a mystery then. Because it makes no sense where does 782kg disappear. I still think they quoted the capacity of the Test Tejas and not the LSP.. since in the LSP this test equipment may not be present.



Which is straight forward calculation. I do think my assertion on the DRDO weight anomaly may be correct. The Tejas may carry more fuel as its vertical stabilizer also has fuel tanks. However, some further official source should solve this mystery.
One idea that I have is that the fuel capacity quoted is for the two seat Tejas.



Im clearly talking to a simpleton in these matters. Lets try again.. why did India purchase the MKI? Why not order 700 Mig-29s.

well im realli not getting my amswer as well tried a million times we all know that LCA has too much of composites which should make it lighter

so i ask again

1. what is true weight of LCA

2. what is its true internal feul capacity

3. what is its true fighting radius with internal feul onli

4. what is its true wepons/feul carrying capacity or its 6+1+1 extranal dry and wet hard points

if anyone answers me correctli il PM you a very nice **** link

 

[SQ8]

well im realli not getting my amswer as well tried a million times we all know that LCA has too much of composites which should make it lighter

so i ask again

1. what is true weight of LCA

2. what is its true internal feul capacity

3. what is its true fighting radius with internal feul onli

4. what is its true wepons/feul carrying capacity or its 6+1+1 extranal dry and wet hard points

if anyone answers me correctli il PM you a very nice **** link

1. Available on the official Tejas site

2+3. Depends on the disclosure by HAL. Fuel capacity may be judged to an approx estimate as is shown but here the confusion is with differing official figures. Fighting radius depends on weapon load, flight profile and fuel consumption.

4. Also available on the Tejas site.

 

[GURU DUTT]

1. Available on the official Tejas site

2+3. Depends on the disclosure by HAL. Fuel capacity may be judged to an approx estimate as is shown but here the confusion is with differing official figures. Fighting radius depends on weapon load, flight profile and fuel consumption.

4. Also available on the Tejas site.

im not satisfied by your answer Mods baaji not enof to see that amazing **** link

 

[JayAtl]

Im clearly talking to a simpleton in these matters. Lets try again.. why did India purchase the MKI? Why not order 700 Mig-29s.

Once again, your analogies are not applicable from my simpleton view .

You seem to believe the "numbers" bought is same as not buying any...

India " bought Mig 29's" and India "bought MK1's" .... china did not buy ANY J-17 an aircraft they themselves produce!

No retarded soul, it is surely you who is mentally retarded and with comprehension problems.

I said that in price range of $15m , it is a very good aircraft. Everything is relative..In conext of PAF and its need, its a good aircraft...but in context of China, its not a good aircraft because Chinese don't need to mass deploy a "light combat aircraft"...Their doctrine is different.

Is JF-17 a "good" aircraft compared to say Rafael? Only an idiot won't know this..but then again, you are an indiot

But is JF-17 a "good" aircraft in terms of PAF and with a price tag of $15 million-$20million? Heck. Yes. It is a very good aircraft..

JF-17 is a "medium tier" aircraft...and in that role, its good enough....

JF-17 Thunder block 1 is superior to previous versions of F-16s...and next blocks would be right up there with later versions of F-16s...

Your immature assumptions aside- China choose not to add this aircraft, which they themselves produced because they know it is a 3 + gen caliber aircraft. J-17 is not even a medium tier aircraft, let alone proclaiming block 1 would be superior to any F16's you have. .

You make whole lot cheerleading proclamations here...BUT as the saying goes- You can put lipstick on pig but it still is a pig

 

[h0mer]

Who tells you China media doesn't report rape cases?

Statistics for rape cases are hard to quantify worldwide, and China is no exception. The U.S. Department of State reported 31,833 rapes in China in 2007, though the Chinese government has not released official statistics for that year. In 2005, the last year for which official Chinese statistics are available, the official number was merely 15,000.

"Only one out of ten cases happened is likely to be reported," said Luo Tsun-yin, a social psychologist at Shih Hsin University in Taiwan, and some estimate that the ratio is even greater. Even if a case is reported, the woman may be pressured by the authorities, her family or the attacker himself to recant.

Since I can't post links yet, here is an excerpt from an article by the US-China today (USC) titled "Rape in China" written by Paxcely Marquez

Rapists in India is far rampant than China, hundreds times more. No one in China will rape a girl and throw the victim out the window or just burn her in public. That is called savage.

Rape is Rape and savagery is savagery you know like that 19 year old that died in china after being raped by 5 guys...

I can't believe when I hear the news. Most of the Rapists in India experience no punishment from the government, those women got raped are deemed as untouchable by Indian society.

kinda ironic that a chinese person would talk about punishments for rape when they still consider martial rape and same-gender rape legal. And speaking of deeming a rape victim as "untouchable" i refer you to the beginning of the post where I reference the USC article, here is another excerpt.

"The perception that a raped woman is dirty or ruined further compounds the stigma, even within a woman's own family. Luo studied one case in which after a girl was raped, "her family wouldn't put her clothes together into the washing machine when they washed the clothes. They divided them from the other family members, because they thought she was dirty."

We pay more respect to women in China society than India. I just wanna laugh every time an Indian try to talk human rights with me.

No you don't... You pay the same respect to women that the indians do... Don't try to act all high and mighty when the Chinese are just as brutal to women as other ancient cultures are.

Democracy is not easy in a caste system society.

The two how nothing to do with each other. Every society has a "caste system" of sorts, Here in the US its the blue collar/white collar attitude, in China its the Hukou system and in India its the Hindu Caste system. They're all the same and have nothing to do with a democratic/communistic society.

Btw you can reply to this post, but I won't be posting on this topic anymore (not in this thread anyways).

 

[h0mer]

but in context of China, its not a good aircraft because Chinese don't need to mass deploy a "light combat aircraft"...Their doctrine is different.

Then why is it that they're still employing a multitude of rust-buckets such as the J-7, J-8 and JH-7's instead of procuring the JF-17? Maybe because the JF-17's performance is only marginally better than those aircraft's and doesn't justify the increase in cost?

There is no credible air force in this world that will operate with only 4.5/5th generation fighters (in the near future). Even the US Air Force will still have F16's well into 2025+. Ditto for China and India.

JF-17 Thunder block 1 is superior to previous versions of F-16s...and next blocks would be right up there with later versions of F-16s...

Looks like you're suffering from Delusions of Grandeur (As are most Pakistanis with regards to the JF-17's capabilities). F16 in all blocks outclass the JF-17 Block I.

 

[sancho]

well why not then use conformul feul tanks like F16 sufa and two wing tip pylons and make rest as wepons onli hard points so it will be 8 +1+1 hard points besides range will increase is each confurmal feul tank carries 1000 litres of feul

If they wanted or even thought about CFTs, would they re-design the airframe now to integrate more internal fuel tanks? So lets not speculate about things that won't come, or are not under development right.

That DRDO weight is a mystery then. Because it makes no sense where does 782kg disappear.

As I said, depends on what is included in this figure, 210Kg if 2 x R73s are included + 2 x pylons + weight of the pilot, this alone should be around 450Kg + fluids for hydraulic for example, ammo...,
If the missiles are not included, the take off weight is definitely too high.[/quote]

 

[SQ8]

Once again, your analogies are not applicable from my simpleton view .

You seem to believe the "numbers" bought is same as not buying any...

India " bought Mig 29's" and India "bought MK1's" .... china did not buy ANY J-17 an aircraft they themselves produce!

That helps, Ill bring it down to a lower level. Would you use 747s to fly 17 passengers from Dehli to Amritsar? If you would.. then Im talking to a child in these matters.. and children should not post in this thread and Ill ensure that for you.

 

[h0mer]

That helps, Ill bring it down to a lower level. Would you use 747s to fly 17 passengers from Dehli to Amritsar? If you would.. then Im talking to a child in these matters.. and children should not post in this thread and Ill ensure that for you.

Oscar, I'm not sure I follow the analogy either. India bought the MKI to gain knowledge and to enhance their local aerospace industry (I'm assuming for the price they're paying, they better be building it locally). I'm sure they'd have bought 300 or more of the latest MIG's if the MKI's weren't on the table. On the other hand, the Chinese won't use the JF17's because it offers them very little advantage over their rust-bucket relics. The proof is in the pudding.

If the JF-17 were a capable 4.5 generation aircraft @ 15 million a piece, don't you think the Chinese would spend the extra 4.5 billion or so to replace their 300 or so old relics still lying around? 4.5 billion dollars for the Chinese is like pocket change.

This tells me that the Chinese don't think too highly of the JF-17 (I mean they won't even replace their J-7's and J-8's with them). Which is why I'm kinda perplexed by all the posters here comparing the JF-17 to F16's, they're not even in the same league in my opinion.

 

[banvanaxl]

huh, they can't purchase something that is not yet available to purchase and yet to be inducted. They india can't sit and wait for something and be without any aircrafts. at least they will purchase and use 200, chinese are stayed away from J17- period.

Mate, again you cant compare apples and oranges. We need 'em rafales and Mki's just as much as we need em LCAs. Different roles different machine.

About China not buying those 17's is prolly because they already have enough J-10s (same class) as the 17's, that are being upgraded now, to validate the purchase for another type of aircraft. Same reason why we sold our initial batch of Su30s back to Russia. We had different requirements than those offered by the 1st batch of aircrafts.

China not buying any of 'em does not mean it is an unviable or poor performing platform.

And anyway J17's were designated for export right from inception. Just because you have a cake shop doesn't mean you have to taste each one of your pastries.

That helps, Ill bring it down to a lower level. Would you use 747s to fly 17 passengers from Dehli to Amritsar? If you would.. then Im talking to a child in these matters.. and children should not post in this thread and Ill ensure that for you.

Yup, I have flown on a AI 747 on the Delhi-Jaipur leg with just another 8-9 co-passengers to keep me company. They put the whole lot of us in business class. The food was just as crap anyway.

 

[SQ8]

Yup, I have flown on a AI 747 on the Delhi-Jaipur leg with just another 8-9 co-passengers to keep me company. They put the whole lot of us in business class. The food was just as crap anyway.

And that will give you a profitable airline?