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Hajj Stampede, 700+ pilgrims died.

RIP.....

But having too many people in a confined location is always a risky affair and authorities should restrict the number of people at a time to avoid these incidents.

Lets see the reaction of SA authorities on this and whose head will be rolled off for it.
 
Mina & Mount Arafat Yesterday

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Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Ilayhi Raaji'oon :(

Saudi Arabia should reduce massive pilgrims to 1 million or less, old Hajj styles was much better than today's new renovation Hajj.
 
RIP.....

But having too many people in a confined location is always a risky affair and authorities should restrict the number of people at a time to avoid these incidents.

Lets see the reaction of SA authorities on this and whose head will be rolled off for it.

You cannot control the action of every one of the 2 million Hajis. Not much is needed for a stampede to occur. This has nothing to do with the overall numbers of Hajis as they have been the same since 2007 (when the expansion project began). Around 2 million. For the past 9 years in a row there have been zero stampedes.

As @The Vicious Kind wrote the authorities are not puppeteers. Stampedes like those have occurred (on a much bigger scale too) in your own country and other countries that host religious pilgrimage sites where millions of people gather.

Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Ilayhi Raaji'oon :(

Saudi Arabia should reduce massive pilgrims to 1 million or less, old Hajj styles was much better than today's new renovation Hajj.

Why? Stampedes occurred in the old times as well and accidents. Whether natural catastrophes (floods and heavy winds mainly) or man-made errors.There is a higher demand of Hajis than ever before (1.7 billion Muslims and the number is only growing) and as many of them should have an opportunity to perform their religious obligation before they die if they can afford it. KSA should not prevent them from doing so and that is why the expansion projects were started. Partly also to improve security. Already millions of potential Hajis are denied such an opportunity. Some have waited all their lives but never got the opportunity. If the number is reduced by 50% (!) you can guess the rest.
 
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@Saif al-Arab

Thanks for the photos buddy.

It does look big but I think it would still be dwarfed by our own Maha Kumbhs once every 12 years.
 
@Saif al-Arab

Thanks for the photos buddy.

It does look big but I think it would still be dwarfed by our own Maha Kumbhs once every 12 years.

You are welcome.

I am not familiar with Hindu festivals and pilgrimage sites so I cannot comment on that. I think that the nature of them is quite different so they are likely not to be compared with each other as such. I might be wrong though.

Hajj pilgrimage stampede: death toll rises to 453, people injured 719

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September 24, 2015

The Saudi Civil Defence reports the number of people injured in the incident outside the Muslim holy city of Makkah as 719.

At least 453 pilgrims were killed on Thursday in a crush at Mina, outside the Muslim holy city of Makkah, where some two million people are performing the annual haj pilgrimage, Saudi Arabia's civil defence authority said.

At least 719 others were injured in the crush, which took place on Street 204 of the camp city at Mina, a few kilometres east of Makkah, where pilgrims stay for several days during the climax of the haj.

The pilgrimage, the world's largest annual gathering of people, has been the scene of deadly disasters in the past, including stampedes, tent fires and riots.

The last major incident in haj took place in 2006, when at least 346 pilgrims were killed as they attempted to perform the stoning of the devil at Jamarat.

However, massive infrastructure upgrades and extensive spending on crowd control technology over the past two decades had made such events far less common.


Street 204 is one of the two main arteries leading through the camp at Mina to Jamarat, where pilgrims ritually stone the devil by hurling pebbles at three large pillars.

Reuters reporters in another part of Mina said they could hear police and ambulance sirens, but that roads leading to the site of the disaster had been blocked to prevent a further crowds developing.

Photographs published on the civil defence Twitter feed showed pilgrims lying on stretchers while emergency workers in high-visibility jackets lifted them into an ambulance.

It said more than 220 ambulances and 4,000 rescue workers had been sent to the stampede's location to help the wounded. Saudi-owned Al-Arabiya television channel showed a convoy of ambulances driving through the Mina camp.

"Work is underway to separate large groups of people and direct pilgrims to alternative routes," the Saudi Civil Defence said on its Twitter account.

Thursday is also Eid al-Adha, when Muslims slaughter a sheep. It has traditionally been the most dangerous day of haj because vast numbers of pilgrims attempt to perform rituals at the same time in a single location.

Two weeks ago 118 people died in Mecca's Grand Mosque when a crane working on an expansion project collapsed during a storm and toppled off the roof into the main courtyard, crushing pilgrims underneath.
 
Yes, it is. One needs to experience the Hajj themselves before they can realize what a logistic nightmare it can be at times but for obvious reasons KSA has mastered that difficult trade after years of practice. Unfortunately we are humans and prone to committing mistakes. I of course have no idea (nobody has yet) what caused this tragedy to occur so I will not pass any judgements. All I can say is that this should not be linked to the expansion project as that has been ongoing since 2007. In that time period (2007 until now) a similar number of hajis have visited each year and no tragedy (stampede) occurred until today. This is important to have in mind.

I have to admit that I am still shocked. First the Makkah crane collapse (freak accident during extremely bad sudden weather, typical of Makkah at times) 2 weeks ago and now this.:disagree:

Don't discard a sabotage.

1. It's very strange 2 events like these in less than one month.
2. There are several wars ongoing in ME and any day could start another worst.
3. These unfortunate events can lower the morale of militaries in ME states, from soldiers to high ranks.
4. These unfortunate events can boost the morale of some fanatical terrorist groups, seeing the events as a "divine punishment" or as a "divine sign" to conquer Mecca.

Thanks to BigData technology and data mining of free services like "Facebook", "Twitter", etc.. it's easy for USA and anothers countries measure the frame of mind of whole countries (or subsets, like military men of a country) instantly and know with precision the impact in people of events like these.
 
717 died till now a group tried to return from same side from where they entered which is not allowed for past 10 years which led to deaths

The tragedy occurred at Street 204 in Mina. Everything points to that happening. I can't think of any other explanation when nothing happened yesterday when a similar number of pilgrims had gathered (see my post 65). It only takes a small group of pilgrims to commit an innocent mistake before panic sets in and such subsequent tragedies occur. As of the witness accounts that I have been reading now in the Arab and international media it is unlikely that the authorities could have done much to prevent this tragedy from occurring. Too quick for any definitive conclusions though.

Don't discard a sabotage.

1. It's very strange 2 events like these in less than one month.
2. There are several wars ongoing in ME and any day could start another worst.
3. These unfortunate events can lower the morale of militaries in ME states, from soldiers to high ranks.
4. These unfortunate events can boost the morale of some fanatical terrorist groups, seeing the events as a "divine punishment" or as a "divine sign" to conquer Mecca.

Thanks to BigData technology and data mining of free services like "Facebook", "Twitter", etc.. it's easy for USA and anothers countries measure the frame of mind of whole countries (or subsets, like military men of a country) instantly and know with precision the impact in people of events like these.

I think that you are taking this too far. One (Makkah crane collapse) was a freak accident that occurred during a storm and heavy rainfall. Only this crane collapsed while the other 100 around Al-Masjid Al-Haram did not and where later inspected and found to be fully safe.

The tragedy today is a stampede caused by pilgrims. No need to look for any grand conspiracy theories. Much stranger things have occurred across the world and will occur in the future.
 
The incident occurred on a street in main Mena Camp, not jamarat. That is clear from the pictures that are circulating the web.

The jamarat area has been upgraded such that stampedes are highly unlikely to occur in that area. The area is massive making it prohibitive to Stampedes which occur in congested areas.

All streets are closed in Mina right now. I'm going to step out and try to walk to the scene of the incident after maghrib. It's 105 right now and way too hot.
 
The incident occurred on a street in main Mena Camp, not jamarat. That is clear from the pictures that are circulating the web.

The jamarat area has been upgraded such that stampedes are highly unlikely to occur in that area. The area is massive making it prohibitive to Stampedes which occur in congested areas.

All streets are closed in Mina right now. I'm going to step out and try to walk to the scene of the incident after maghrib. It's 105 right now and way too hot.

The tragedy (stampede) occurred on Street 204 at Mina.

According to most of the witness accounts that I have read in the local and international media it seems that it was caused by a group of Hajis who tried to return to their tents from the same side from where they had entered which is forbidden. This apparently caused the stampede.

40°C is normal for this time of the year in Makkah (hottest city in KSA). Drinking a lot of water is crucial as a Haji at this time of the year.

Stay safe and please update us if you can if we miss anything.

Live from Makkah:

KSA1 (Arabic):


KSA2 (English):

 
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