Greek Rafale F3 Vs Turkish S400

[dbc]

ROLAND-1/2 was so pathetic to stop USAF and RAF

This really highlights your ignorance. Allied forces gave the ROLAND a wide berth during the air campaign against Saddam Hussein. During day time in clear weather there were NO counter measure against the ROLAND. The missile is powered by a quick reaction motor and accelerates to its top speed of MACH 5 rapidly giving air crew no hope of evading the missile. There is a detailed account of the ROLAND in the memoirs written by a Wild Weasel serving in the Gulf War. He wasn’t worried about Russian SAMS but the ROLAND he feared. The problem with you is your reliance on Wikipedia specs to proclaim inferiority or superiority there is more to war fighting than equipment specs.

 

[MMM-E]

Range is but one metric to evaluate a weapon system but NOT instructive on its own. You declared ROLAND useless due to its claimed range of 8 KM but see post # 233.

Do you study war and battles? I am not getting this impression from your posts.

Iraq had created a command and control infrastructure with a large number of radar systems to alert and provide cues to its SAM systems, AA guns, and jet fighters to work in tandem for the defense of the country like a cohesive fighting machine. Each asset had its strengths and shortcomings when viewed in isolation but would compliment each other in war. This is how an integrated Air Defense system is supposed to work. Iraq was one of the earliest countries to develop and operationalize this capability - very impressive on this count alone.

I don't need fairy tales

Iraq had 30-40 years old pathetic Air Defense Systems with range of 6-15-25-35-45 km
that was not enough against most modern USAF and RAF

You mentioned S-200 and S-300 systems. What can these systems do on their own? You can expect results from an integrated Air Defense system, not systems in isolation.

For example
250+ km SIPER and 250-380 km S400 always will be more capable and deterrent to intercept Greek F-16V and RAFALE Fighter Jets even over the Aegean

25-40 km HISAR can not do it against Fighter Jets



İf Iraq had even 1.600 S-200 , S300 long range Missiles , then Iraq could block USAF and RAF Fighter Jets

but 16.000 short-medium range Missiles could not stop USAF and RAF

This really highlights your ignorance. Allied forces gave the ROLAND a wide berth during the air campaign against Saddam Hussein. During day time in clear weather there were NO counter measure against the ROLAND. The missile is powered by a quick reaction motor and accelerates to its top speed of MACH 5 rapidly giving air crew no hope of evading the missile. There is a detailed account of the ROLAND in the memoirs written by a Wild Weasel serving in the Gulf War. He wasn’t worried about Russian SAMS but the ROLAND he feared. The problem with you is your reliance on Wikipedia specs to proclaim inferiority or superiority there is more to war fighting than equipment specs.

Another French fanboy who dreaming with 6 km ROLAND which destroyed only 2 Fighter Jets from USAF and RAF


Iraqi Armed Forces was ruled by American backed KESNIZANI Organization which is similar to FETO in Turkİye

and only traitors or idiots can buy only short-medium range SAMs

Iraq needed long range SAMs like S-200 , S300 for real layered-integrated AD Capability

 

[dani191]

I don't need fairy tales

Iraq had 30-40 years old pathetic Air Defense Systems with range of 6-15-25-35-45 km
that was not enough against most modern USAF and RAF





View attachment 951421


For example
250+ km SIPER and 250-380 km S400 always will be more capable and deterrent to intercept Greek F-16V and RAFALE Fighter Jets even over the Aegean

25-40 km HISAR can not do it against Fighter Jets



İf Iraq had even 1.600 S-200 , S300 long range Missiles , then Iraq could block USAF and RAF Fighter Jets

but 16.000 short-medium range Missiles could not stop USAF and RAF



Another French fanboy who dreaming with 6 km ROLAND which destroyed only 2 Fighter Jets from USAF and RAF


Iraqi Armed Forces was ruled by American backed KESNIZANI Organization which is similar to FETO in Turkİye

and only traitors or idiots can buy only short-medium range SAMs

Iraq needed long range SAMs like S-200 , S300 for real layered-integrated AD Capability

siper isnt 250 km range

 

[MMM-E]

Domestic industrial capability is welcome and desired by the Public but a country might need allies and supplies to handle a capable side in war if or when the time comes. This is how Ukraine is able to handle Russia in war in the present, Russia would have wiped out Ukraine otherwise.

Now you understand the bigger picture?

This is Russia's problem
Ukraine is so weak even with NATO support

but Russian war concept is still from WW2 as like Armenia ... so outdated

Russia lacks UCAVs , guided MLRS , guided munitions , Kamikaze Drones with AI and IR Camera , RF seeker
and cost effective mini cruise missiles

Even Russia has 40 km ZOOPARK-1 Weapon Locating Radar which can not find 90 km HIMARS

Turkiye and Israel have superior Weapon Locating Radar with AESA technology
-- 100 km ELM-2084 MMR ... İsrael
-- 100 km Aselsan STR ... Turkiye


1.000 Turkish UCAVs alone can be enough to destroy Ukranian Forces


And Russia doesnt know how to fight in urban warfare


since 1985 , Turkish Army fighting against terrorism and urban warfare-hybrid war concept in Syria,Libya, Karabakh

 

[LeGenD]

I don't need fairy tales

Iraq had 30-40 years old pathetic Air Defense Systems with range of 6-15-25-35-45 km
that was not enough against most modern USAF and RAF





View attachment 951421


For example
250+ km SIPER and 250-380 km S400 always will be more capable and deterrent to intercept Greek F-16V and RAFALE Fighter Jets even over the Aegean

25-40 km HISAR can not do it against Fighter Jets



İf Iraq had even 1.600 S-200 , S300 long range Missiles , then Iraq could block USAF and RAF Fighter Jets

but 16.000 short-medium range Missiles could not stop USAF and RAF



Another French fanboy who dreaming with 6 km ROLAND which destroyed only 2 Fighter Jets from USAF and RAF


Iraqi Armed Forces was ruled by American backed KESNIZANI Organization which is similar to FETO in Turkİye

and only traitors or idiots can buy only short-medium range SAMs

Iraq needed long range SAMs like S-200 , S300 for real layered-integrated AD Capability

I am telling fairy tales?

Best of luck, bro.

My time is better spent on more productive members.

 

[NG Missile Vessels]

The seeker or the explosives doesnt matter when the range is 6-15-25-35 km against a Fighter Jet armed with 80-150 km HARM supersonic anti-radiation Missile

Effectiveness of a SAM missile is determined by its kill probability, as range increases, its kill probability decreases

SAMs are associated with 2 types of kill
1. Mission kill where target is forced to abort mission
2. Target kill where target is destroyed

Generally

Short Range SAMs have highest kill probability against a maneuvering target i.e. target kill

Medium Range SAMs have kill probability bet Short Range & Long Range SAMs

Long Range SAMs have lowest kill probability, if they get a mission kill, its as good as a target kill

 

[Foinikas]

in the Middle East , not in the World

In the world. Watch documentaries,read books and you'll know about it.

The seeker or the explosives doesnt matter when the range is 6-15-25-35 km against a Fighter Jet armed with 80-150 km HARM supersonic anti-radiation Missile

The seeker doesn't matter? Tell that to the British Blowpipe system.

and Greece has only 165 km ATACMS Block1 Tactical Ballistic Missile and 250 km SCALP Cruise Missile ( export variant )

In Ukraine,it was revealed that Britain and France gave the Ukrainians their own versions with the 550 km range.

Since Greece and France have a defence alliance,that means France could provide Greece with the French version as well.

 

[Foinikas]

Another French fanboy who dreaming with 6 km ROLAND which destroyed only 2 Fighter Jets from USAF and RAF

"Iraq is believed to have received 100 shelter-mounted Roland 2 on MAN 8×8 trucks and 13 self-propelled systems on the AMX-30R chassis during the 1980–88 Iran–Iraq War and they first went into action in 1982 claiming a F-4E Phantom and F-5E Tiger that year."

"On 1 June 1982, during the Falklands War, Sea Harrier XZ456 was destroyed south of Stanley, by a Roland launched by members of the Argentine Army's GADA 601 (601st AA Artillery Group).[17]"

Why are you acting like that?

 

[altafahmed]

Meet the EUROPE's best AD Capability



S400 is extra firepower for the Turkish Armed Forces to turn F-16V and RAFALE into scrap of metal

-- 36 launchers
-- 192 missiles
600 km BI BIRD Radar
View attachment 950060
View attachment 950045


Now Turkiye has its own SIPER AD System to turn F-16V and RAFALE into scrap of metal

100+ km SAMP-T .. France / Italy
100+ km SIPER Block1 .. Turkiye
150 km SIPER Block2 .. Turkiye
160 km PATRIOT PAC-2 .. USA


100+ km SIPER Block1

View attachment 950031


150 km SIPER Block2

View attachment 950032


Even HISAR-O and GOKDEMIR AD Systems to turn F-16V and RAFALE into scrap of metal

View attachment 950046
View attachment 950044


Other Air Defense Systems
View attachment 950056
View attachment 950054
View attachment 950055
View attachment 950057


234 F-16 Fihter Jets
View attachment 950053



Early Warning and Command Control Aircraft
Network Centric Warfare

4 Boeing E-7T AEWCs can provide a "big picture" of both the airspace and maritime environment and transfer it to the relevant command centers via Link-16 Tactical Data Link

Turkiye's most significant advantage in terms of Airborne Early Warning is the 163+29+35 F-16s with Link-16 TDL capability,
View attachment 950047
View attachment 950048


RADAR Network

Fixed radars are relatively easy to destroy because their locations are known, so mobile radars and airborne early warning aircraft are used as a precaution
View attachment 950049
View attachment 950050



Electronic Warfare

Greece : NO
Turkiye : KORAL , REDET-II and HAVASOJ

Another issue experienced in these operations was the effectiveness of land-air based Electronic Attack Systems.

The Turkish Air Force has placed great importance on Electronic Warfare for many years and has invested in equipment in this regard
View attachment 950051



And Foinikas
View attachment 950052

Just out of curiosity, as now Turkiye has its own long range Air Defense system SIPER, why not deactivate S-400,
1- Its effectiveness is questionable in Russia-Ukraine war
2- Reduce the number of your enemies (America)

 

[MMM-E]

Short Range SAMs have highest kill probability against a maneuvering target i.e. target kill

Medium Range SAMs have kill probability bet Short Range & Long Range SAMs

Long Range SAMs have lowest kill probability, if they get a mission kill, its as good as a target kill

The seeker doesn't matter? Tell that to the British Blowpipe system.

I am talking about against Fighter Jets


For example
250+ km SIPER and 250-380 km S400 always will be more capable and deterrent to intercept Greek F-16V and RAFALE Fighter Jets even over the Aegean

25-40 km HISAR can not do it against Fighter Jets


without long range SAMs , and with Soviet Su-24s, Su-25s, and MiG-29s Iraq was easy target for most modern USAF and RAF


Imagine , Turkiye doesnt have S400 and SIPER .......... but only HAWK , RAPIER , HISAR

Hellenic Air Force would be so happy

 

[Foinikas]

250+ km SIPER and 250-380 km S400 always will be more capable and deterrent to intercept Greek F-16V and RAFALE Fighter Jets even over the Aegean

You keep repeating and repeating this like a broken record.

1.It's a brand new system and the quality is still not known
2.You haven't tested it in real battle so the performance is still not known
3.You keep insisting on the 250+ km stat as if it's the most vital stat of the missile. That's completely theoretical. The important thing is the no-escape zone and how good the other components are. A missile reaching its limit range is far easier to evade and fool.

Like many other members here have pointed out on this thread,you are ignorant on a lot of military matters. All you do is repeat stats and lists like a parrot and you think that will make you look like you actually know things.

 

[MMM-E]

You keep repeating and repeating this like a broken record.

As always you have butthurt feelings

1.It's a brand new system and the quality is still not known
2.You haven't tested it in real battle so the performance is still not known
3.You keep insisting on the 250+ km stat as if it's the most vital stat of the missile. That's completely theoretical. The important thing is the no-escape zone and how good the other components are. A missile reaching its limit range is far easier to evade and fool.

Full of ignorant people here talking fairy tales .... no any military knowledge
like a parrot , you repeat the fake things and your wishful thinking


1-- Turkish weapons have state of the art technology and high quality
2-- Franco-Italian SAMP-T haven't tested it in real battle too .. you ignorant troll
3-- Not theoretical ,, but practical

100+ km SIPER Block1 = HISAR-O Missile with booster
150+ km SIPER Block2 Missile tested by Turkiye

250+ km SIPER Block2 Missile with booster



HISAR-O RF and SIPER Block1 successfully hit their targets and enter service as of 2023

HISAR-SIPER Air Defense Missiles
-- State of the art IIR and RF seekers
-- Vertical Launch Capability with 360° Effectiveness
-- Dual-Stage Rocket Motor
-- Thrust Vector Control System
-- Impact and Proximity Fuze
-- Hit to kill technology
-- One-Way Data Link

100+ km GOKDOGAN Air to Air Missile
two-way datalink
lock on after launch
state-of-the-art active RF seeker and unique warhead design for maximum probability of kill
advanced counter-countermeasures (ECCM)
home-on-Jam capability
and speed of mach 4+

And RaMjet powered GOKHAN air to air missile will be superior to the METEOR in speed and in technological capability with the next generation seeker , two-way datalink , expanded no-escape envelope, improved high angle off-boresight capability , etc



stop trying to discredit every Turkish weapon system

jealous trolls did it against Turkish UCAVs too years ago
But Turkiye sold state of the art technology UCAVs to 32 Countries ..last one is S.Arabia for $3 billion

 

[Foinikas]

As always you have butthurt feelings

Because you repeat the same things like a broken record? Everybody tells you that.

Full of ignorant people here talking fairy tales .... no any military knowledge
like a parrot , you repeat the fake things and your wishful thinking

Sure buddy,that's why everyone gives up trying to talk with you.

 

[MMM-E]

Because you repeat the same things like a broken record? Everybody tells you that.

Because you and same jealous members repeat the same lies , fairy tales , wishful thinking to discredit every Turkish weapon system and for anti-Turkiye propaganda

 

[dbc]

Another French fanboy who dreaming with 6 km ROLAND which destroyed only 2 Fighter Jets from USAF and RAF

I’ll follow @LeGenD ’s lead and punch out as well. My time is wasted on you.