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Greek Rafale F3 Vs Turkish S400

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Greece buys 24 RAFALEs .. nothing else
You're wrong again.

Greece has been upgrading F-16s to F-16V
We're buying Rampage and SPICE
We're developing our own UAV programs
We have requested 500 Bradley IFVs from USA
We're getting 3 FDI HN frigates
We're still getting M1117 Guardian and the rest of the Marder 1A3
And 3 MQ-9 Sea Reaper as well as additional Heron

Of course,you'll say that all these are nothing compared to Turkey. Yes,they are nothing compared to Turkey. But we've been trying to modernize our Armed Forces after more than a decade of economic crisis.

Dont jump to Russia,Israel,France,etc

I am talking about Greece here
and Greece nevr can match with Turkiye .... not even close
But that's what you did. In this thread alone,you said that Russia,Israel and France are nothing compared to you. You actually said in different posts. @BON PLAN @LeGenD @Beny Karachun can confirm it.
 
Notning to do with Radars
all about swarn attack by many cruise missiles and kamikaze drones at the same time

1 PATRIOT Battery has 8 launchers and 32 missiles

never can stop swarm attack by 100 cheap guided munitions , mini cruise missiles and kamikaze drones
Of course it has everything to do with radars, Iran succeeded because they simply took a longer route and evaded the radars
 
Notning to do with Radars
all about swarn attack by many cruise missiles and kamikaze drones at the same time

1 PATRIOT Battery has 8 launchers and 32 missiles

never can stop swarm attack by 100 cheap guided munitions , mini cruise missiles and kamikaze drones
Being able to detect an enemy attack early on allows defending side to bring more assets for defense.

For example, single AH-64 is a very potent aircraft against drones and even cruise missiles. It can carry 4 Stingers and 16 hellfires which can easily target drones and under certain circumstances cruise missiles as well. We used AH64s against Iranian drones.

Also jets can be used to defend against such threats.
 
Tiny Greece is not allied powers ( super power USA and Global power UK )
and Turkiye is not weak Iraq or Serbia

I see your point but I am addressing bad claims.

Iraq was NOT weak when it was attacked in 1991.
Yugoslavia was NOT weak when it was attacked in 1999.

Iraq had established an integrated Air Defense system before 1991. This system is credited for downing dozens of aircraft of the US-led coalition in 1991. Literally no country in the pan-Islamic bloc had fielded this capability back in the day.

Iraq was well-prepared to fight a war in 1991 but US was even better prepared to fight a war in 1991. US had learned valuable lessons from the Vietnam War (1965 - 1972). These lessons spurred a complete revisit to the American military capability with a shift from conscript recruitment model to volunteer recruitment model and development of a new generation of weapon systems. US created the world's first Digitalized military force with the capacity to conduct network-centric combined arms operations in line with the American AirLand Battle doctrine 1982.

US-led coalition used a combination of bunker buster precision bombs, cruise missiles, heliborne special forces, and stealthy aircraft F-117 Nighthawk to degrade Iraqi integrated Air Defense system - a FIRST in the world.

Yugoslavia had created a more survivable integrated Air Defense system before 1999, this system was shaped by lessons that could be learned from Iraqi experience in 1991. This system was optimized to detect targets like cruise missiles and F-117. But US introduced B-2A bomber to degrade Yugoslavian defenses - a FIRST in the world.

Yugoslavia is the only country in the world to have shot down a stealthy combat aircraft F-117 in a war with NATO (Operation Allied Force), and its military equipment and tactics are/were instructive in this regard:

F-117-shot-down-how.png

Source: Clean Bombs and Dirty Wars: Air Power in Kosovo and Libya

NOTE: Soviet P-18 Spoon Rest (or Russian 1RL131 Terek) operates in the VHF band and its Chinese derivative is called YLC-8A.

Yugoslavians created some of the earliest known examples of an IMAD setup involving a network of different Russian-origin radar systems including P-18 operating across I/D/G/H/VHF bands as a collective.

But B-2A degraded Yugoslavian defenses to the point of being utterly useless:

During Allied Force, the air war over Serbia, six B-2s conducted 45 sorties out of 9,211 Air Force fighter and bomber sorties in the entire war—less than a half of one percent—but they struck 33 percent of the targets in the first eight weeks of combat.

=> The bottom line is that US was closely studying Soviet defenses and understood how to destroy military capability of both Iraq and Yugoslavia with superior technology and tactics in war. US has created a global surveillance system that allows it to draw huge amounts of information from other countries and decode it to create military solutions.

-----

Greece and Turkey are more evenly matched of-course.
 
I see your point but I am addressing bad claims.

Iraq was NOT weak when it was attacked in 1991.
Yugoslavia was NOT weak when it was attacked in 1999.

Iraq had established an integrated Air Defense system before 1991. This system is credited for downing dozens of aircraft of the US-led coalition in 1991. Literally no country in the pan-Islamic bloc had fielded this capability back in the day.

Iraq was well-prepared to fight a war in 1991 but US was even better prepared to fight a war in 1991. US had learned valuable lessons from the Vietnam War (1965 - 1972). These lessons spurred a complete revisit to the American military capability with a shift from conscript recruitment model to volunteer recruitment model and development of a new generation of weapon systems. US created the world's first Digitalized military force with the capacity to conduct network-centric combined arms operations in line with the American AirLand Battle doctrine 1982.

US-led coalition used a combination of bunker buster precision bombs, cruise missiles, heliborne special forces, and stealthy aircraft F-117 Nighthawk to degrade Iraqi integrated Air Defense system - a FIRST in the world.

Yugoslavia had created a more survivable integrated Air Defense system before 1999, this system was shaped by lessons that could be learned from Iraqi experience in 1991. This system was optimized to detect targets like cruise missiles and F-117. But US introduced B-2A bomber to degrade Yugoslavian defenses - a FIRST in the world.

Yugoslavia is the only country in the world to have shot down a stealthy combat aircraft F-117 in a war with NATO (Operation Allied Force), and its military equipment and tactics are/were instructive in this regard:

F-117-shot-down-how.png

Source: Clean Bombs and Dirty Wars: Air Power in Kosovo and Libya

NOTE: Soviet P-18 Spoon Rest (or Russian 1RL131 Terek) operates in the VHF band and its Chinese derivative is called YLC-8A.

Yugoslavians created some of the earliest known examples of an IMAD setup involving a network of different Russian-origin radar systems including P-18 operating across I/D/G/H/VHF bands as a collective.

But B-2A degraded Yugoslavian defenses to the point of being utterly useless:

During Allied Force, the air war over Serbia, six B-2s conducted 45 sorties out of 9,211 Air Force fighter and bomber sorties in the entire war—less than a half of one percent—but they struck 33 percent of the targets in the first eight weeks of combat.

=> The bottom line is that US was closely studying Soviet defenses and understood how to destroy military capability of both Iraq and Yugoslavia with superior technology and tactics in war. US has created a global surveillance system that allows it to draw huge amounts of information from other countries and decode it to create military solutions.

-----

Greece and Turkey are more evenly matched of-course.
You seriously think he reads all that?

He ignores everyone. This thread wasn't about the Rafale vs S-400,it was to once again showcase and talk about the "superiority" of all new Turkish weapons and projects. It's never about a real comparison. And if people actually sit down and make a comparison that proves his initial claim was wrong,he just changes the subject and constantly spams the entire list of everything Turkey produces.
 
Iraq was NOT weak when it was attacked in 1991.
Yugoslavia was NOT weak when it was attacked in 1999.

Bro , I dont understand You ,Foinikas and BON PLAN ...

Turkiye has its own defense industry to produce almost everything
Iraq and Yugoslavia were so weak without national defense industry against super power USA-The UK


in 1991 Iraq was so weak with 30-40 years old Soviet AD Systems

45 km SA-2
35 km SA-3
24 km SA-6
12-15 km SA-8
and 8 km Franco-German ROLAND short range Air Defense System



Today Turkiye has most modern state of the art Air Defense Systems , Radars , AEWCs , EW Systems to create great A2/AD capability to intercept Hellenic Air Force 24 RAFALE - 150 F-16 Fighter Jets and 90 SCALP Cruise Missiles

Turkiye produce its own AD Systems , AESA Radars and EW Systems
( only USA,Russia,China,Turkiye,France,Israel in the world )


Great A2/AD capability with most modern Weapons
-- S400
-- SIPER
-- HISAR-O
-- HISAR-A
-- GOKDEMIR
-- GURZ
-- SUNGUR
-- KORKUT 35 mm SPAAG

-- 600 km BIG BIRD Radar
-- 450+ km ERALP AESA Radar
-- 600 km MESA Radar on Boeing E-7T AEWC

-- REDET-II next gen Radar EW System to jam/paralyze hostile Radars including Fighter Jets from 200 km away
-- HAVASOJ airborne stand off jammer Aircraft to jam/paralyze hostile Radars including Fighter Jets from 400 km away

Also Turkiye modernize 200 F-16 Fighter Jets .... ( block70 standart )

Also KIZILELMA unmanned stealth Fighter Jet mass production start in 2024

Also ANKA-3 flying-wing deep strike stealth UCAV on the way


US-led coalition used a combination of bunker buster precision bombs, cruise missiles, heliborne special forces, and stealthy aircraft F-117 Nighthawk to degrade Iraqi integrated Air Defense system - a FIRST in the world.

NO S-200 , NO S-300

Only 30-40 years old Pathetic Air Defense Systems

45 km SA-2
35 km SA-3
24 km SA-6
12-15 km SA-8
and 8 km Franco-German ROLAND short range Air Defense System


in 1991
USA had 80-150 km HARM anti radiation Missile easly to destroy all outdated Soviet AD Systems SA-2 , SA3 , SA-6 , SA-8

and 8 km Franco-German ROLAND short range Air Defense System was useless against Fighter Jets
 
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Iraq and Yugoslavia were so weak without national defense industry against super power USA-The UK
Yugoslavia had its own military industry. Don't you know that?

Today Turkiye has most modern state of the art Air Defense Systems , Radars , AEWCs , EW Systems to create great A2/AD capability to intercept Hellenic Air Force 24 RAFALE - 150 F-16 Fighter Jets and 90 SCALP Cruise Missiles

Turkiye produce its own AD Systems , AESA Radars and EW Systems
( only USA,Russia,China,Turkiye,France,Israel in the world )


Great A2/AD capability with most modern Weapons
-- S400
-- SIPER
-- HISAR-O
-- HISAR-A
-- GOKDEMIR
-- GURZ
-- SUNGUR
-- KORKUT 35 mm SPAAG

-- 600 km BIG BIRD Radar
-- 450+ km ERALP AESA Radar
-- 600 km MESA Radar on Boeing E-7T AEWC

-- REDET-II next gen Radar EW System to jam/paralyze hostile Radars including Fighter Jets from 200 km away
-- HAVASOJ airborne stand off jammer Aircraft to jam/paralyze hostile Radars including Fighter Jets from 400 km away

Also Turkiye modernize 200 F-16 Fighter Jets .... ( block70 standart )

Also KIZILELMA unmanned stealth Fighter Jet mass production start in 2024

Also ANKA-3 flying-wing deep strike stealth UCAV on the way
Are you a bot to repeat THE SAME STUFF IN A LOOP?

I'm gonna hit my head on the wall,this guy is impossible to talk to. Why is he even on the forum?

and 8 km Franco-German ROLAND short range Air Defense System was useless against Fighter Jets
"At around 11:00PM on the 17th of January, 1991, an A-6E TRAM Intruder from VA-35, AA-510 (BuNo 161668), crewed by Lt. Bob Wetzel and Lt. Jeff Zaun was attacked by two Rolands while attacking the H-3 Airfield in Western Iraq. The Roland didn't set off the American built RWRs, meaning that it was hard to detect. After evading the first Roland, another one (which the crew didn't see), impacted the aircraft. The crew successfully ejected but were soon captured.[15] On 19 January 1991, during the Gulf War a RAF Panavia Tornado GR.1 ZA396/GE, on a SEAD mission against the Iraqi air base at Tallil, was destroyed by a Roland. Both crew members ejected successfully, were taken prisoner and survived the war. The destruction of at least one USAF A-10 Thunderbolt, which occurred at around the same time, was later attributed to a Roland,[18] by the Pentagon."
 
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Yesterday,I saw on TV how Turkish people were complaining about the prices.
No no and no. @MMM-E said you that it's just anti Erdogan propaganda !
(the problem is that our old friend @MMM-E is now the sole not to see the turkish crisis)
 
Of course it has everything to do with radars, Iran succeeded because they simply took a longer route and evaded the radars

Nothing to do with Radars
Radars can track Cruise Missiles and Kamikaze Drones

but 1 PATRIOT Battery ( 8 launchers - 32 missiles ) can not stop a swarm attack by 100 Cruise Missiles-Kamikaze Drones

it has to do with quantity advantage
 
better worry about weak-tiny Greece which has no any chance against Turkiye in a full-scale of war
Try to find an opponent of your force, not a smaller and peacefull country.
Egypt for exemple.
I'm sure Sissi would be pleased to kick the Vizir a** .... as in Lybia.
 
=
Nothing to do with Radars
Radars can track Cruise Missiles and Kamikaze Drones

but 1 PATRIOT Battery ( 8 launchers - 32 missiles ) can not stop a swarm attack by 100 Cruise Missiles-Kamikaze Drones

it has to do with quantity advantage
We have yet to see 100 Kamikaze drones attacking at the same time.
 
Yugoslavia had its own military industry. Don't you know that?

Yugoslavia had limited defense Industry which was nothing to compare with currently Turkish Defense Industry

Yugoslavia had Soviet MIG-21 , MIG-29 Fighter Jets and Soviet S-125 , KUB Air Defense Systems

Only J-22 ground-attack Fighter Jet was indigenous


on the other hand Turkiye has its own weapons which enter service year by year between 2018 and 2028 for the Turkish Air Force

Fighter Jets

KAAN
HURJET
KIZILELMA

Air Defense Systems
SIPER
HISAR-A
HISAR-O
GURZ
SUNGUR
KORKUT
GOKDEMIR

EW Systems
KORAL
REDET-II
HAVASOJ

Air to Air Missiles , Cruise Missiles and Guided Munitions
BOZDOGAN
GOKDOGAN
GOKHAN
SOM
CAKIR
KUZGUN-TJ
AKBABA
KGK-LR
TOLUN-IIR
IHA-230

UCAVs
TB-2
TB-3
ANKA-S
AKSUNGUR
AKINCI
ANKA-3

Targeting and Jamming Pods
ASELPOD
EHPOD

Also AESA Radars
MURAD airborne AESA Radar
BURFIS airborne AESA Radar
ERALP Early warning AESA Radar
 
Yugoslavia had limited defense Industry which was nothing to compare with currently Turkish Defense Industry
What do you compare? The late 1990s with the early 2020s? Get serious!

on the other hand Turkiye has its own weapons which enter service year by year between 2018 and 2028 for the Turkish Air Force

Fighter Jets

KAAN
HURJET
KIZILELMA

Air Defense Systems
SIPER
HISAR-A
HISAR-O
GURZ
SUNGUR
KORKUT
GOKDEMIR

EW Systems
KORAL
REDET-II
HAVASOJ

Air to Air Missiles , Cruise Missiles and Guided Munitions
BOZDOGAN
GOKDOGAN
GOKHAN
SOM
CAKIR
KUZGUN-TJ
AKBABA
KGK-LR
TOLUN-IIR
IHA-230

UCAVs
TB-2
TB-3
ANKA-S
AKSUNGUR
AKINCI
ANKA-3

Targeting and Jamming Pods
ASELPOD
EHPOD

Also AESA Radars
MURAD airborne AESA Radar
BURFIS airborne AESA Radar
ERALP Early warning AESA Radar
What did I just told you in the previous post? To stop the endless spamming of the same stuff again and again?
 
Try to find an opponent of your force, not a smaller and peacefull country.
Egypt for exemple.
I'm sure Sissi would be pleased to kick the Vizir a** .... as in Lybia.

We kicked all of you in Libya ... you pathetic losers
and not Egypt , not France ... but Turkiye is in Libya

only Turkish Ballistic Missiles , Cruise Mssiles and long range Kamikaze Drones will be enough to hit air bases in Cairo and Alexandria

TAYFUN
CENK
SOM
GEZGIN
KARGI
SUPER SIMSEK

Even only 700 km SUPER SIMSEK Kamikaze Drones will be enough for Egypt
1693931822035.jpeg


Egypt and Greece can not produce Ballistic Missiles , Cruise Mssiles , long range Kamikaze Drones and Air Defense Missiles


Our rivals are big boys in Syria , Libya and in the Eastern Mediterranean
( USA,Russia,France )

Egypt and Greece are nothing without USA-France-Russia
 
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