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Greatest Persians in history

Ever heard of variation in pigmentation? My sister is more pale than me, and if I had a brother, he could have been more darker than me. That doesn't mean we got different ancestors. That part about Alexander isn't true.

Skin pigmentation is of course a factor (but not to an extent you would see in the pictures I provided). Alexander's conquest did play a role in shaping the genetics of a lot of Asians in his conquered lands.

Not in the position now, but I will post a link later to a book which is pretty well-researched, and talks about the points I made in more detail.
 
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1. This is not a Pakistan/India issue. Thsi is simple genetics:

Here is a Punjabi:
Umar-Akmal.gif


Here is another Punjabi:
9598461.cms


Both hail from Punjab, therefore should have had equal amounts of so called "direct sunlight". But there is a distinct difference, which boils down to the point I made earlier.

One has makeup on, the other one doesn't?

One is sitting in the snow where he is pale because of the cold, another one looks like he just got back from a cricket game?
 
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There are different races within Punjab, so it is actually impossible to lump all Punjabis together as an entity.


There has been much Persian influence in Punjab, to the point that it was an administrative language before the English arrived.

I live close to a place called Yazman Mandi, which translates to Yazman market.

It is a very old place where trade occurs.

Yazman is originally a persian name/word.

True, but what I meant is that saying that Pale Pakistanis or Indians are so because of Alexander's legacy, is genetically not true.
 
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True, but what I meant is that saying that Pale Pakistanis or Indians are so because of Alexander's legacy, is genetically not true.

It is.

Check out the Kalash people in Northern Pakistan.

But on the whole, it is not.
 
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That is why I said most, not all.

Debatable.

To have a significant impact on genetics, the intermarriage has to go on for several generations in a very widespread manner. I am talking about centuries. Yes, there are certainly descendants of Alexander's armies but I do not believe this had a significant impact on overall genetics.

Look at a map of Alexander's Empire. It did not come close to much of Central Asia. The reason Central Asians look like this today is because they already inherently had Caucasian features to start with.

The native DNA usually exists in such great numbers that foreign contribution is inevitably watered down over the generations. It takes a lot more than a few invasions/migrations to change the underlying genetics, it has to be overwhelming and systematic to have any real impact.

For example, Hui Chinese are descendants of Persian peoples who came from the silk road into China, and who intermarried into the local population. (Our most famous Admiral Zheng He was of this group). Yet today, after centuries of intermarriage, Hui Chinese look pretty much 100% East Asian, apart from some remnant features such as brown hair and coloured eyes from their Persian ancestry. It did not have much of an impact on overall genetics.
 
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True, but what I meant is that saying that Pale Pakistanis or Indians are so because of Alexander's legacy, is genetically not true.

What I meant to say is that Alenxander's contribution is probably the largest. Of course there were also contributions from Central Asians that settled down, as well as Persians and various other races that came and settled in South Asia.
 
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Please keep the ethnic history away from Punjab, we are happy as it is. Desist RazPak :D
 
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Please keep the ethnic history away from Punjab, we are happy as it is. Desist RazPak :D

We never had ethnic or racial issues in Punjab, due to the Sufis that enlightened the people.

Very interesting article. A must read.

THE SUFI MOVEMENT AND PAKISTAN



Progress in human life whether political, social or economic has depended upon and deeply indebted to the activities of a group of dedicated persons guided by leaders of exceptional qualities. The ushering in of the greatest monotheistic movement in history under the nomenclature of 'Islam' was possible and its success assured because of the sterling character, the imperishable faith and unfailing resolve of its leader, Prophet Mohammed, and his companions.

Muslim society has the distinction of initiating another unique movement in history which remains unparalleled by its wide-spread character covering the two continents of Asia and Africa; by the remarkable success it achieved in having its objectives fulfilled; by the enormous number of selfless workers it produced for the propagation of its ideals; by the depth of influence it exercised; by the revolutionary fervour it aroused, and by the indelible marks it left not only on Muslim society but on the Christian, Hindu and Buddhist societies as well. It provided succour and nourishment to such an extent that Muslims were able to withstand the Mongol catastrophy, fight it back with renewed vigour on religious plane and then to expand its horizons beyond the Sahara in Africa, across the Indus in India and over the oceans into Indonesia. This movement is known as"Sufism".

The beginning of sufi movement, its philosophy and the biographies of its leaders (saints) are too well-known, and dwelt upon at great length by a large number of scholars to be recapitulated here. I shall take up only those aspects which are relevant to our subject concerning the emergence of Pakistan. An important point to bear in mind is that there would have been no Pakistan without the sufi movement.

Pakistan and sufism are inter-related, inter-woven and inseparable from each other. If Pakistan's beginning is traced back to the conquest of this sub-continent by Muslims armies, as is erroneously done, then the whole sub-continent should have become Pakistan since Muslim arms were successful throughout the area. But Pakistan emerged only in those territories where sufism met with success. Pakistan, therefore, can be described as the fruit of sufi movement. "Pre-eminent among these problems relating to the life of the Muslim community in all regions since the twelfth century", writes Professor Gibb, "is the activity and influence of the sufi shaikhs and orders. It was into the sufi movement that the life blood of the community flowed ever more strongly. No adequate history of Islam can be written until it, with all its causes and effects, has been studied patiently and with scholarly integrity, In no region, moreover, is this study more fundamental or more urgently required than in that of Islam in Indian subcontinent". He further says: "From the 13th century A.D. sufism increasingly attracted the creative social and intellectual energies within the community, to become the bearer or instrument of a social or cultural revolution."

In its early stages sufism was an individual affair confined to intellectuals and spiritualists with hardly any appeal to the masses. But with the passage of time it acquired new dimensions and began to deal with the mundane aspects of life as well. Its beginning, popularity and propagation have been attributed to many causes among which may be mentioned:

1. to free religious thought from the rigidity imposed by the ulema;
2. to emphasise in the Islamic teachings the element of God's love and mercy for His creation rather than His wrath and retribution;
3. to practise what one professes and not merely indulge in slogans and soliloques;
4. to stress the essence of faith rather than mere observance of formalities;
5. to move away towards rural areas from the evil and debilitation effects of wealth, monarchy and bureaucracy concentrated in big cities;
6. to demolish the edifice of false values based on pelf and power and restore morality to its proper place in the niche of Muslim society;
7. to combat the fissiparous tendencies and centrifugal forces which were spreading their tentacles in the Muslim world;
8. to discourage parochial feelings and eliminate racial pride which had assumed primary importance in Muslim thinking relegating the ideal of brotherhood to a secondary place etc.

These factors which gave birth to organised sufism were indeed serious ailments which had afflicted Muslim society for some time and had assumed menacing proportions by the 12th century A.D. It was easily discernible that Muslim political structure was crumbling and its entire moral and social fabric facing extinction. The most redeeming feature of this dark and dismal period was that this challenge was successfully met by the Muslim society from its own resources and from its own inherent strength by employing its own moral and intellectual weapons. The answer to this grave challenge was the sufi movement. Sufism gave a new lease of life to the Muslims, provided them with a bright vision, opened up fresh vistas for them, and guided them towards unexplored horizons. It was a glorious and splendid performance, unparalleled and unsurpassed in human history.

Hundreds of devoted workers left their hearths and homes, spread out over unknown regions hazarding strange climes and conditions with hardly any material resources to aid and assist them. Poverty and privation stalked their efforts while distance and inaccessibility stood in their way. But undaunted and undeterred they marched forward demolishing the distances, breaking the barriers, conquering the climes. And lo! they succeeded. What was the secret of their success? They had both strength of character and courage of conviction, were selfless and devoted to a cause.



SUFISM IN ORGANISED FORM

Sufism became organised, and adopted a form and institution in the 12th and 13th centuries A.D. The two great pioneers in this field were Shaikh Abdul Qadir Jilani and Hazrat Shahabuddin Suhrawardy. By introducing the system of 'silsila' which was a sort of association/order, and takia/khankha, a lodge or hospice, they invested the movement with a sense of brotherhood and provided it with a meeting place. The 'silsila' and the takia/khankha were the king-pins of the organization. With a stream of selfless workers available and with no dearth of devoted and assiduous leadership, the movement made swift progress and spread far and wide.

It is incorrect to state that the sufis followed the Muslim conquerors in the sub-continent. They were here, though in small numbers, and had started their work even before the arrival and triumph of Muslim armies. "We now know that a sufi, Sh. Abdur Rahman, had settled in Ajmer even before Khwaja Moinuddin, and was the author of the first work in Hindi."( Indian Muslims, By Prof. M.Mujeeb.). At this time Ajmer was ruled by Rajput Rajas. Similarly, Shaikh Ismail Bukhari came to Pakistan before Mahmud Ghaznavi. Mohammed Alfi who came as early as Mohd. Bin Qasim's time began missionary work in Hindu-ruled Kashmir. "The Ismaili missionary Abdullah landed near Cambay in 1067A.D. and worked in Gujrat when the country was governed by Sidhraj Jai Singh. He and his Jain teacher Huma Charya are said to have been converted to Islam when there was no recorded Muslim invasion." (The Shias of India, By John Norman Hollister). Such instances can be multiplied without end.

The character of sufi movement was such that if did not require official patronage or military protection. It succeeded without both in a number of countries such as Malaya, Indonesia and East and West Africa. The same is true of their work in Pakistan. In fact, power was a hindrance rather than a help to the progress of Sufi mission. This is amply borne out by the fact that sufis achieved least success near the seats of power in the sub-contintent and had greater appeal where they had to fall upon their own moral and spiritual resources in which they were not wanting.

"Shaikh Daud of Lahore declined to meet Akbar although the Emperor was anxious to benefit from his guidance and blessings. Eminent Khalifas of Shaikh Nizamuddin refused to consider a proposal made by Mohammad Tughlaq to coordinate missionary activity with political expansion." (Indian Muslims, By Prof.M. Mujeeb.)

"Neither the succession of victories by Muslim armies nor the massacre of Hindu and the destruction of their temples brought many Hindus to the fold of Islam. On the contrary, as would be natural in the circumstances, conquest only built up Hindu resistance. The battles of Islam were won not by Muslim iconoclasts but by peaceful missionaries." (A History of the Sikhs, By Kushwant Singh.) What actually transpired was that the vigorous period of organised sufi movement merely coincided with the conquest of northern India by the Ilbari Turks early in the 13th century A.D.

Here we shall briefly narrate the work of sufis in Pakistan. Early in the 8th century A.D. when Mohammad Bin Qasim conquered Sind (which included most of Punjab) sufi movement had not taken any organised form, as already stated. In those days Islam was propagated mostly by merchants and individual preachers belonging to various trades. They were successful only to a limited extent; they did not spear-head a mass movement.

The first organised work in this region was started by Ismaili missionaries who achieved considerable success in Sind and southern Punjab where they gained political power as well by installing Ismaili rulers at Multan and Mansura. But the success of Ismaili missionaries was short-lived. Both Mahmud Ghaznavi (997-1030 A.D.) and, 150 years later, Mohammad Ghori (1175-1206 A.D.) defeated and smashed the power of the Ismaili rulers which resulted in the slow withering away of Ismaili Shiaism in Pakistan. Among the early Ismaili missionaries to gain ground in Pakistan were Pir Sadruddin, Pir Kabiruddin and Syed Yusufuddin.

The success of Ismailism in Pakistan coincided with its similar success in other parts of the Muslim world from the middle of the 10th to the middle of the 12th century A.D. During this period the Ismaili Caliphate of the Fatimids at Cairo had emerged the most powerful and Hasan Bin Sabbah's followers in the mountain fastnesses of northern Iran and Syria had become a factor to be reckoned with. But the Ghaznazvids, the Ghorids, The Seljuqs, the Ayubids and lastly the Mongols each in turn took steps to break their political power, while the sufis completely triumphed over them in the religious sphere. Southern Pakistan having become an integral part of the Muslim world from quite an early period, witnessed this rise and fall of the Ismailis in its own territories as well.

The Ghaznavid period was marked by the arrival in Lahore of the important spiritual figures of Hazrat Shaikh Ismail and Hazrat Ali Bin Osman Hujweri, popularly known as Data Ganj Baksh (died between 1072-79 A.D.) The latter was among the leading sufi philosophers of the day and since no organised 'silsilas' had started in his time, he did immense missionary work in an individual capacity and set an outstanding example for future generations.

"Shaikh Ismail was the first missionary who began preaching Islam in Lahore in 1005 A.D. He used to deliver 'khutbas' every Friday at which thousands of Hindus embraced Islam. Next came Hazrat Shaikh Ali Bin Osman Hujweri during the time of Masud Ghaznavi and was highly successful in converting large number of Hindus to Islam." (Tareekh-e-Sind By Ijazul Haq Quddusi.) He is reported to have converted Rai Raju, a Hindu General of the Ghaznavids, to Islam.

However, according to scholars, the general conversion to Islam in Pakistan started on a sizeable scale two hundred years later, from the 13th century, after the Ghorid rule. This period begins with the arrival of Hazrat Khwaja Moinuddin Chishti in this sub-continent followed by a large number of Chishti and Suhrawardy sufis. This period also saw the expansion of Muslim power across the Sutlej into northern India. "Muslim mysticism reached India when it had entered the last and the most important phase of its history- the organisation of silsilas in the 12th-13th centuries A.D. In the early period, only Suhrawardy and Chisti silsilas started their work." (Religion and Politics in India in the 13th Century A.D. By Khaliq Ahmad Nizami.)

"Sind claims the distinction of being the home of Indian sufism. According to Hasan Nizami, Suhrawardy sufis were the first to arrive in India and made their Headquarters in Sind. Suhrawardy order attained great influence in Pakistan under the leadership of Hazrat Bahauddin Zakaria of Multan. The famous Qadirya order entered India through Sind in 1482 A.D. Syed Bandagi Mohammad Ghouse, one of the descendants of the founder (Shaikh Abdul Qader Jilani 1078-1116) took up residence in Sind at Uch (now in Bahawalpur) and died in 1517 A.D." (An Introduction to History of Sufism By A.J.Arbery.)


THE PIONEERS

The great pioneers of this 13th century sufi movement in Pakistan were the four friends known as 'Chahar Yar': Hazrat Fariduddin Masud Ganj Shakar of Pak Pattan (1174-1266); Hazrat Syed Jalaluddin Bukhari of Uch-Bahawalpur (1196-1294); Hazrat Bahauddin Zakaria of Multan (1170-1267) and Hazrat Lal Shahbaz Qalandar of Sehwan (1177-1274). It is said that 17 leading tribes of the Punjab accepted Islam at the hands of Hazrat Fariduddin Masud Ganj Shakar. Among them were the Kharals, Dhudhyan, Tobiyan, etc. According to some , Wattu, a Rajput tribe was also converted by Baba Farid. Hazrat Jalaluddin Bukhari converted Sumras and Sammas of Sindh while Hazrat Zakaria and Shahbaz Qalandar attained great success in Multan and the northern areas of Sindh. Saqi Sarwar Sultan converted a large number of Jats and a group among them is still known as Sultani Jats.

But the Sufis did not do their work in a hurry. They first set an example of highest probity by their personal acts and explained the message of Islam in a simple, forceful manner without exerting any political or economic pressure so that the work of conversion continued for centuries throughout the Delhi Sultanate, through the Khilji, Tughlaq, Lodhi and Mughal periods down to the days of the British Raj. We learn that during the time of the Mughals a noted sufi, Shaikh Dawood of Chati (in Pakistan) was carrying on the work of conversion quite vigorously. The historian Badauni says: "Hindus to the number of 50 or more came each day with their families and relatives to pay their respects to the Saint (Shaikh Dawood) and under his spiritual influence embraced Islam."

Other notable sufis of Pakistan were: Hazrat Shah Mohammad Ghouse who migrated from Sindh and settled down in the Punjab; Hazrat Mian Mir, who was born in Sindh and migrated to Lahore where he is buried. (A personal friend of the 5th Sikh Guru Arjun, he laid the foundation of Hari Mandir in Amritsar). Hazrat Shah Jamal of Ichra, Lahore; Hazrat Shah Khairuddin Abul Maali of Lahore, Shaikh Ismail of Lahore; Hazrat Syed Yakub Zanjani (d. 604 H) Lahore, Hazrat Abdul Nabi Sham of Sham Chourasi who was originally a Hindu; Ruknuddin Rukne Alam of Multan who was grandson of Hazrat Bahauddin Zakaria whose family had also migrated from Sindh; Hazrat Jalaluddin Bukhari Makhdoom-e-Jahanian Jahan Gusht of Uch who was the grandson of Hazrat Jalaluddin Bukhari; Syed Ahmad Saqi Sarwer Sultan of D.G. Khan; Shaikh Yusuf Gardezi of Multan (1026-1152); Shaikh Safiuddin Haqqani of Uch; Pir Jalaluddin Qutub-al-Aqtab who died at Uch in 1293 AD converted the Mazaris and several other Baluch tribes to Islam; Channan Pir of Cholistan, Bahawalpur; Sharfuddin Bulbul Shah, Syed Ali Hamdani and Mir SyedHasan Samnani of Kashmir; Shaikh Badruddin Suleman and Shaikh Budruddin Ishaque of Pak Pattan; Shaikh Sadruddin Arif, Shaikh Ruknuddin Abul Fatah and Shams Subzwari of Multan; Alaul Aque; Hazrat Khardari Baba Mulla Taher of Ziarat; Pir Hunglaj on the coast of Makran; Pir Shori in Bugti territory; Shah Bilawal in Lasbela; Pir Omar in Khuzdar; Zinda Pir in Lund area, Chatan Shah near Kalat, Sultan Shah in Zehri territory. Pir Baba of Swat, Kaka Sahib of Nowshera; Khwaja Makhdum Chisti, Sakhi Sultan (Mangho Pir) and Hazrat Abdullah Shah of Karachi; Syed Shah Ali Makhi, Ghazi Baba, Makhdoom Mohammad Nooh, Hazrat Mohiuddin Gilani, Shah Khairuddin Gilani and Hazrat Shah Inayat of Sindh.

These sufis were great intellectuals, well-read and widely travelled. Most of them were speakers of high calibre, men of letters and poets of eminence. Because of their merits and morals coupled with their spiritual attainments they succeeded in making a powerful impact on the life of the people among whom they settled. It was no mean achievement to change the religion and transform the entire social life of millions of people in this subcontinent.


THE BLESSINGS OF THE SUFIS

The sufis performed a multitudinous role. Being proficient in learning, adept in medicine and steeped in spiritualism, they dispensed these possessions for the greatest good of the greatest number. Highest nobles of the state as well as lowest strata of society gathered in the Khankhas and the sufis showered their blessings upon them irrrespctive of rank and religion. They provided succour to the harassed and solace to the harrowed, made available food and shelter to the needy, preached against corruption, and admonished the harsh and oppressive rulers. There is hardly any social or moral crime against which the sufis did not raise their voice----slavery, hoarding, black-marketing, profiteering, wine, etc. Barni remarks that as a result of their teachings "vices among men had been reduced".

Hazrat Shah Baz Qalander's success in his campaign against the oppression of the local raja and against the vices prevailing in Sehwan is well-known.

When Khawaja Moinuddin Chisti was asked about the highest form of devotion, he replied that it was nothing but helping the poor, the distracted and the downtrodden. Infact Muslim mystics looked upon 'social service' as the supreme object of all their spiritual exercises. they did not believe in isolated, solitary life of contemplation. 'Live in society and bear the blows and buffets of the people' was the advice of most of them to their disciples.

Shaikh Ruknuddin Rukn-e-Alam of Multan is reported to have remarked that since all sorts of people visited a saint it was necessary for him to possess three things: 1. money; 2. learning; and 3. spiritual ability. With the first he could help those who needed monetary aid; with the second he could solve the problems of scholars and with the third he could provide spiritual guidance. It may be mentioned here that some of the sufis accepted gifts and donations from their rich disciples and distributed them among the poor visitors, thus serving as a media for fair distribution of wealth.

The sufis always advocated the path of peace and askd people to avoid rift and bloodshed. Shaikh Fariduddin Ganj Shakar of Pakpattan advised his disciples to placate one's enemies. He once told a vistor: "Do not give me a knife; give me a needle. The knife is an instrument for cutting asunder and the needle for sewing together."

Another aspect of sufi teachings was that they stressed God's love rather than His wrath; treated their enemies softly, sympathetically and never abused other systems or creeds. Though greatly instrumental in bringing back Ismailis of Sindh and Punjab into the fold of Sunni Islam, they always praised the services of Ismaili missionaries who preceded them. Hazrat Nizamuddin Aulia had commended the work of the well-known Ismaili missionary Nur Turk although he was responsible for the rising against early Turkish Sultans in Delhi.

The sufis were so kind and considerate towards people of all cultures and creeds that they exercised profound influence on Hindu society. It was because of the sympathy and understanding shown by them to the Hindus, particularly of the lower strata, that in the 14th and 15th centuries AD the religious leadership of Bhakti movement rose from the lower sections. Never before in the long history of Hinduism, religious leaders had sprung from that strata of society to which Chaitanya, Kabir, Nanak, Dhannu, Dadu and others belonged. And what is more significant, there was hardly any leader of Bhakti school who had not passed some of his time in khankha.

Thus, khanqhas (hospices) not only brought non-Muslims and Muslims together but they also narrowed the gulf that divided the Muslims of foreign origin and local converts. If the sufis had not played this vital role of far reaching importance there would have hardly been a common meeting ground between some of the ruling classes obsessed with a superiority complex, and the ruled who comprised both non-Muslims and newly converts. Without sufis, most Muslim rulers of the early period would have remained isolated, lacking a broad base, always in danger of extinction.

As against the stiff, nonchalanat and contemptuous attitude of some Sultans towards converted Muslims, the sufis gave them a sense of pride and enhanced their social prestige by various means. They usually conferred on them such titles of nobility as Khwaja (also pronounced Khoja), Momin (Memon), Malik, Shaikh, Akhund, Khalifa, etc.

By adopting an attitude of river-like generosity, sun-like affection and earth-like hospitality, the sufis struck at the very roots of casteism and religious exclusiveness and paved the way for large-scale conversions to Islam.


Btw, this post is not off-topic as many of these sufis and their movements came from Iran.
 
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I think there is a tendency to say that people in the Middle East and in parts of South Asia "look Greek"... and people often therefore attribute it to Alexander's policy of intermarriage in his empire.

But to me, there simply were not enough numbers, and no systematic intermarriage over centuries to affect the majority. (Though probably a significant minority were affected).

But what does it mean to "look Greek"? In truth, Greeks look like Caucasians with slightly tanned skin. This already describes much of the native populations in the Middle East, South Asia and Central Asia.

Which makes sense, considering the DNA path that humans took out of Africa. They came out of Africa to the Middle East, and from there spread outwards. The native peoples of this region already looked Caucasian before Alexander came, and in fact were the predecessors to the Europeans.
 
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True Israelites Arabs? Thats funny, because Arab migration to the levant only really started after Muhammad.

The large majority of the peoples calling themselves Arab -- e.g., Palestinians, Egyptians, Moroccans, etc. -- do not descend from the original Arabs, the conquering Arabian peoples of the times of the Islamic expansion. Islam and the Arabic language spread via a process of cultural diffusion, not population replacement. In fact, there weren't even enough Arabs -- then as now -- to populate the areas that they conquered and are now Arabic-speaking.

As to the origins of Palestinians, it's indeed very probable that they are the original, native population of the land, not immigrants from Mohammed's times. An excerpt of a 2000 Hebrew University paper, "High-resolution Y chromosome haplotypes of Israeli and Palestinian Arabs reveal geographic substructure and substantial overlap with haplotypes of Jews" (available online):
"According to historical records part, or perhaps the majority, of the Moslem Arabs in this country descended from local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who had converted after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD (Shaban 1971; Mc Graw Donner 1981). These local inhabitants, in turn, were descendants of the core population that had lived in the area for several centuries, some even since prehistorical times (Gil 1992). On the other hand, the ancestors of the great majority of present-day Jews lived outside this region for almost two millennia. Thus, our findings are in good agreement with historical evidence and suggest genetic continuity in both populations despite their long separation and the wide geographic dispersal of Jews."
Don't rely on anti-Palestinian talking points; read up on history of the region and form your own opinions. Otherwise you'll be an agent of misinformation.
 
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I am making this thread to show who I believe are the top ten 10 Persians in history in my opinion.

4- Pirouz Nahavandi


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looooool
Just because Omar conquered and humiliated pagan Persia , killed your king and enslaved your princess شهربانو, his assassin automatically becomes a national hero?
For what? Stabbing a man in the back with a poisoned dagger while he was leading the prayer?
Lame. Very lame.
 
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Most scholars trace Baluchis back to Arabs (Shaam I think). But you never know, Pakistanis love to trace their ancestry back to Arabs.

Well, doesn't it go for the Malaysians, Indonesians & Singaporean (*******) too?!
Also, as a matter of fact, lots of names there have Abu, Bin, Binte & etc.etc. Not to mention most are Yemeni or some arab descent or they, so like to claim!
 
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Jalal ad-Din Mingburnu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jalaleddin Mengüberdi was a Turk. Do you what Mengüberdi means? It is Turkic "Holy highness has given"

O M G

Jalaledin was a Turk ? or he was an Iranian ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

You got to be kidding me . right ?

Khwarazmian dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Khwarezmian_Empire_1190_-_1220_%28AD%29.PNG

Khwarezmian Empire 1190 - 1220 (AD)

How could he be a Turk while they were governing Iran unless you call him an Iranian Turk not a Turk cos there is a big big difference between Turks in Iran and in other countries .
 
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Well, doesn't it go for the Malaysians, Indonesians & Singaporean (*******) too?!
Also, as a matter of fact, lots of names there have Abu, Bin, Binte & etc.etc. Not to mention most are Yemeni or some arab descent or they, so like to claim!

(*******) ???

In case of Pakistan I think its due to high prestige Sayyads enjoy in society and some influence of brahmins. In Malaysia I have not met anyone who claims to be Arab, but my stay here has not been long so can;t say for sure.
 
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