The 19 greatest cities in history

[Mage]

All 3 of them should be on the list, along with Lahore and Delhi.

Add Faisalabad, Multan, Agra, Peshawar in the list while you are at it.

You guys need to stop being childish. Mohenjo Daro is perhaps a candidate credible to make this list. Although it's debatable whether it's population was more than Uruk or Memphis in the respective time. Pataliputra is another candidate. But again it's debatable whether it was ahead of Alexandria at that time. Population estimate of Pataliputra ranges from 150000-400000. While Alexandria is stated ho have 180000 male population at that time.

 

[Hamza913]

Add Faisalabad, Multan, Agra, Peshawar in the list while you are at it.

You guys need to stop being childish. Mohenjo Daro is perhaps a candidate credible to make this list. Although it's debatable whether it's population was more than Uruk or Memphis in the respective time. Pataliputra is another candidate. But again it's debatable whether it was ahead of Alexandria at that time. Population estimate of Pataliputra ranges from 150000-400000. While Alexandria is stated ho have 180000 male population at that time.

We're talking about histories greatest cities. Leaving out the one's I've mentioned would show the ignorance of an individual.

The size of a city doesn't show it's greatness, because if that were the case Karachi should be declared as one of the greatest cities in the world.

If you still want to keep it purely based on size, then Harappa and Mohenjo Daro still stick.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Add Faisalabad, Multan, Agra, Peshawar in the list while you are at it.

You guys need to stop being childish. Mohenjo Daro is perhaps a candidate credible to make this list. Although it's debatable whether it's population was more than Uruk or Memphis in the respective time. Pataliputra is another candidate. But again it's debatable whether it was ahead of Alexandria at that time. Population estimate of Pataliputra ranges from 150000-400000. While Alexandria is stated ho have 180000 male population at that time.

You need to read more.

Harappa was at one time the biggest & most sophisticated city in the world. If you do not know that then it is nobody elae's fault.

If I were to compile a list, I would definitely include not only Harappa but other sites as well. South Asia gave mankind three major (man-made) religions along with countless philosophical schools. Imagine the height of civilizational development & sophistication necessary to do that. Simply saying that South Asia equals other regions of the world is actually an understatement. At least 2-3 South Asian cities had to be in this list for it to be credible.

This was a crap list & very much a Western sophomoric effort; its as simple as that.

Do not take this criticism personally. It is aimed at whoever made it.

 

[Mage]

You need to read more.

Harappa was at one time the biggest & most sophisticated city in the world. If you do not know that then it is nobody elae's fault.

If I were to compile a list, I would definitely include not only Harappa but other sites as well. South Asia gave mankind three major (man-made) religions along with countless philosophical schools. Imagine the height of civilizational development & sophistication necessary to do that. Simply saying that South Asia equals other regions of the world is actually an understatement. At least 2-3 South Asian cities had to be in this list for it to be credible.

This was a crap list & very much a Western sophomoric effort; its as simple as that.

Do not take this criticism personally. It is aimed at whoever made it.

A western centric list would include cities like Prague, Berlin and Washington. And there are many lists like that. This list has only 3 cities that are/were in the west.

Indus valley civilization was a great civilization. But that's much less talked than Sumerian, Egyptian or Persian civilization. And except some artefacts not much is known about Indus civilization. Can you tell me who were the rulers, what wars they fought what were their policies? This civilization is not properly recorded. And most of the things stated like its population are estimation....The population of Alexandria or Memphis are also estimations. But these estimations are more acceptable than Indus Valleys' because of the records available.

Pataliputra has records that can speak for itself. So does Bagdad. Like Sir, @niaz said. This list has 19 cities. You can't just put all historical Pakistani cities here just because you feel like it. Cities like Persepolis, Athens, Cairo, Damascus, Jerusalem are as much if not more worthy compared to Lahore or Delhi.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Well, we are all 'centric' to a degree and so is this list. I am open to be accussed of being "Indus-centric", @niaz despite coming from Sargodha appears [unexplicably] to be "India-centric" and our great @Chak Bamu of course for very understandable reasons "Lahore-centric".

 

[Hamza913]

Cities like Persepolis, Athens, Cairo, Damascus, Jerusalem are as much if not more worthy compared to Lahore or Delhi.

Mohenjo Daro and Harappa definitely deserve a mention.

Taxila, Lahore and Delhi can be debated, but I'd still include them.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

@Mage The size of city is not be it all of listing "greatest" or else Karachi today would be at top of the pile. Greatest is not about counting heads. It is, I should think about some contribution that took humanity to another level. In that regard there are only four regions in the early stages of human civilization. Nile, Tigris/Euphrates, Indus and Hwang Ho or Yellow River.

These approximate to Egypt, iraq, Pakistan and China. Therefore it would appear not possible to fail to include cities in these four countries that contributed to "greatness" of humanity in the list. Harappa showed clear public sanitation which was first in human history. Mohenjo Daro is epic in it's scale. These cities formed the nucleous of once great civilization. How is it that these are not included? Taxila surely is qualified.

And except some artefacts not much is known about Indus civilization

Not much is known about Çatalhöyük but it is on the list. In fact from the image Çatalhöyük does not look that much differant from Mehr Garh.

But that's much less talked than Sumerian, Egyptian or Persian civilization.

This is very true. it's all about who gets to "shout" and more who gets to write the narrative. The list is entirely Western-centric.

history forum.

It's not so much where you quote it but more what the source is. Did you bother checking the source that you quoted. It's a Hindutva fanboy posting on Historum. That hardly makes it credible does it? Do you want me to post things there and then quote them so they carry currency with you?

Would you also call him a Hinduvta lover?

I have been through this with a million Ganga-deshis so I find it tedious now to have to go through this with a Pakistani. And least of all such a senior member as you. But still let me lay it out for you.

Sare Jahan Se Acha Hindustan Humara

That says "Hindustan" which is a generic term whose definition has floated around. However since he said this in 1904 exactly 55 years after your Sargodha had become British India. Yes, in 1904 it was "British India" or the British Raj. So if you want to be technical then the correct legal term is "British India". If you want to be geographic then the correct term is "South Asia". The entity that you keep bringing up and giving such value to was built by the British. So your continous referance to "India" appears to be some yearning for British Raj. Sorry the British left in 1947. You want that entity back I suggest you convince PM Theresa May to invade South Asia. Unite it at the bayonet and guns of British soldiers and then slap a Union Jack over it.

Would you also call him a Hinduvta lover?

Yes, I would but he also was the first to ask for Indus region of South Asia to be consolidated into a "independant Muslim state in the North West" so he is exculpated for what he had done or said earlier. Indeed Iqbal and Aitzaz Ahsan [Indus Saga] have influenced my understanding of Pakistan. Ahsan for the Indus man concept [historical] to the more recent "north western" concept of Sir Allama Iqbal . Both Iqbal and Ahsan abstract Indus region as separate. Iqbal calls it the "north western" and Ahsan uses "Indus" but both mean the same tract of land.

Quote

"lqbal seems to be focused on the north western region as the base for the expression of Muslim power, while Jinnah seems to have an all India strategy."

https://www.dawn.com/news/1369436/convergence-and-divergence-of-views

 

[Mage]

@Mage The size of city is not be it all of listing "greatest"

You have to take a perimeter that you can quantify. This list takes population as the perimeter.

@Mage
Not much is known about Çatalhöyük but it is on the list. In fact from the image Çatalhöyük does not look that much differant from Mehr Garh.

I'm sure Mohenjo Daro, Harappa and whatever you said would be in that list of it had existed in 7000 B.C. Sadly that wasn't the case. When they existed they had competitors like Alexandria or Memphis.

@Mage
This is very true. it's all about who gets to "shout" and more who gets to write the narrative. The list is entirely Western-centric.

A western centric list would have included cities like Washington, Berlin. Look around. You can find lists like that.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I'm sure Mohenjo Daro, Harappa and whatever you said would be in that list of it had existed in 7000 B.C. Sadly that wasn't the case. When they existed they had competitors like Alexandria or Memphis.

Yes, I now. That is all the more reason. Because unlike today where there are probably two dozen contenders at that point Mohenjo Daro, Harappa were so conspicious because they were amongst the very few. That is reason enough for their conclusion. And Mojenjo Daro was huge by measure of it's time.

 

[Chak Bamu]

I'm sure Mohenjo Daro, Harappa and whatever you said would be in that list of it had existed in 7000 B.C. Sadly that wasn't the case. When they existed they had competitors like Alexandria or Memphis.


A western centric list would have included cities like Washington, Berlin. Look around. You can find lists like that.

There is no avoiding it: you sir are a verifiable fool. You have no sense of history and you find no reason to correct yourself even when told so by multiple members who obviously know so much more than you. I could start by schooling you, but you have shown exceptional stubbornness in sticking to your views, and I have wasted enough time already on this thread.

 

[Mage]

There is no avoiding it: you sir are a verifiable fool. You have no sense of history and you find no reason to correct yourself even when told so by multiple members who obviously know so much more than you. I could start by schooling you, but you have shown exceptional stubbornness in sticking to your views, and I have wasted enough time already on this thread.

Sorry that you feel that way. I have read about Indus valley civilization a bit in our textbooks of 6th or 7th grade. I do think Mohenjo Daro and Harappa were great cities. Although I would still think before calling them the greatest of their time.

 

[Arsalan]

And you are free to sing songs about India. Only adds to the chorus of the Hindutva brigades. And was that Wikipedia or Indipedia you quoted??

That was uncalled for sir!
I am surprised at this sudden out rage. We all know @niaz and i am sure non of us can point him out as "singing to the chorus of Hindutva brigades". That was harsh and was not required.

I hope you wont find this post offensive now but that is how i felt and thought it is best to share my views on this with you. All he was doing was pointing out a city that might make it to the list and the be honest, the city existed AGES before Pakistan or India existed. If they are bigots, that do not mean we start trying to change history our self.

My 2 cents.


As for Taxila, Patna, Mohenjodaro or Harappa i think all of us are missing a key point. @Chak Bamu
The list of the cities that supported the LARGEST population at their time. Mohenjodaro was built around 2500 BC and was undoubtedly one of the largest settlements in ancient civilizations but at around the same time there was the city of Uruk in Iraq that supported 60000 to 80000 residents. More than Mohenjodaro. Uruk was built around 2900-2800 and continued to be the worlds largest city until it started to lose its prime in 2000 BC. Same for the other cities that were suggested. Though they were the beacon of light, of civilizations at their time, there were more heavily populated cities elsewhere around that time and that is why these never made to the list. That is how i saw it at least.