Government servants should not hold dual nationality. Ali Mohammad Khan

[Trango Towers]

Actually I beg to differ.

Israel has people at the highest levels who have multiple passports. Lots of British Jews go and serve in Israeli military. During oppression of Palestinians you see British American accents. They use native Germans for media etc.

Problem with Pakistani is that they steal from the government and then run. Plus where can we travel with a pak passport

 

[Sayfullah]

New bill quietly gives powers to remove British citizenship without notice

Clause added the nationality and borders bill also appears to allow Home Office to act retrospectively in some cases

www.theguardian.com

They’ll never see us as one of them.
If you take away our rights in Pakistan as well we will essentially be stateless

 

[313ghazi]

Bhai jaan, I don't know if I should laugh or take it seriously.
Yaar what has that got to do with the topic in this thread?

I know what you are saying, and to an extant I agree, although I am more hopeful.
But, please tell me what has this got to do with my comments, or this discussion, it really does not make sense.

Bro I interpreted your post as saying that overseas Pakistanis should not overly concern themselves with Pakistani politics and focus on the politics of the country they live in.

Correct me if I misunderstood.

I don't agree with that. I think we should definitely make 100% effort in the country we live in and try to assimilate to the max. It will benefit us whilst we are here. I just feel looking at the history of Europeans and the rising Islamaphobia particularly in the corridors of power - our time will be cut short. We might not live to see the day, but within a few Generations I fear we will.

This is why I think we should 100% be concerned about politics in Pakistan. I don't want to live in Pakistan today because the standard of living is much lower than that in the UK - especially for Middle class or working class.

I want the standard of living in Pakistan to rise so I don't have to be overseas anymore.

If I moved today Alhamdulillah I'd live a comfortable life. What if my children? What if my sons don't become educated and successful? Can they survive comfortably in Pakistan today as a plumber, electrician, chef, or even as a teacher, accountant, etc.

In the UK they can survive very easily. They won't be rich - but they won't be poor. They won't lack any necessity because society is setup that way.

I want that same middle class comfort available in Pakistan. I want it for myself and my kids. In extension I want it for you all too.

This is why I am so interested in the success of Pakistan too.

 

[peagle]

Pakistan is a democracy right?
Democracy is made up by the people.
A citizen means you belong to that country you are the people who make it up.
Democracy gives every citizen a right to vote.

If Pakistan wasn’t a democracy one could say don’t give overseas Pakistanis a right to vote. However we are a democracy so every citizen is allowed to vote.

Yaar, it has nothing to do with democracy, please try and understand the topic and the relevant points.
India has been a continuous democracy since 1947, forget the quality, but they are a democracy. They don't even give you a passport, you get a foreign passport, that's it, you're out. No longer an Indian. There are other countries with same rules.
But, they don't cry about rights to vote, or a passport. Pakistanis have to cry about every single thing.

 

[Sayfullah]

Actually I beg to differ.

Israel has people at the highest levels who have multiple passports. Lots of British Jews go and serve in Israeli military. During oppression of Palestinians you see British American accents. They use native Germans for media etc.

Problem with Pakistani is that they steal from the government and then run. Plus where can we travel with a pak passport

All successful countries allow multiple citizenships and give all rights to people with them. Look at Canada at usa at UK.
And look at Middle East who don’t give passports. You can clearly see no talent goes Middle East but goes west.
Many talented Pakistanis want to contribute to Pakistan if their rights are taken from them Pakistan will just hate them self the most

Yaar, it has nothing to do with democracy, please try and understand the topic and the relevant points.
India has been a continuous democracy since 1947, forget the quality, but they are a democracy. They don't even give you a passport, you get a foreign passport, that's it, you're out. No longer an Indian. There are other countries with same rules.
But, they don't cry about rights to vote, or a passport. Pakistanis have to cry about every single thing.

Yeah but I’ve never seen a Indian pm making programs like Rohsan Digital account and doing everything it takes to get the most remittances they can.
Pakistan runs on remittances. So we have a say in Pakistani politics.

 

[Trango Towers]

Pakistans failure is in the greed of the masses from the poor to the filthy rich. The greed doesn't end

 

[peagle]

Bro I interpreted your post as saying that overseas Pakistanis should not overly concern themselves with Pakistani politics and focus on the politics of the country they live in.

Correct me if I misunderstood.

I don't agree with that. I think we should definitely make 100% effort in the country we live in and try to assimilate to the max. It will benefit us whilst we are here. I just feel looking at the history of Europeans and the rising Islamaphobia particularly in the corridors of power - our time will be cut short. We might not live to see the day, but within a few Generations I fear we will.

This is why I think we should 100% be concerned about politics in Pakistan. I don't want to live in Pakistan today because the standard of living is much lower than that in the UK - especially for Middle class or working class.

I want the standard of living in Pakistan to rise so I don't have to be overseas anymore.

If I moved today Alhamdulillah I'd live a comfortable life. What if my children? What if my sons don't become educated and successful? Can they survive comfortably in Pakistan today as a plumber, electrician, chef, or even as a teacher, accountant, etc.

In the UK they can survive very easily. They won't be rich - but they won't be poor. They won't lack any necessity because society is setup that way.

I want that same middle class comfort available in Pakistan. I want it for myself and my kids. In extension I want it for you all too.

This is why I am so interested in the success of Pakistan too.

Nahin yaar, you completely misunderstood.
We don't have the right to vote now, and look how active we are, all the oldies are part of one back-home political party or another. Just imagine once they can the vote, how much political energy will be wasted, when it should be spent in their country of residence.

Yes, fight for Pakistan, it can be done in so many ways. But stay out of active politics and running of the country, because we will suffer here. If, when or till we are kicked out we have to make the best, here. To be honest, I love the UK, I do feel British and Pakistani, both.

I feel what you are saying, we want the best for Pakistan, but if we get too involved, believe me it will turn nasty, it will not be good for Pakistan and it will not be good of our generations in the future.

If we don't take part in local politics, we lose influence here. And lose our voice in both countries, for Pakistan we are too far away, they will listen but pay no attention. In local countries here, they will see us as not taking interest and wont give a crap about Pakistani origin locals, nahan yahan kay, nah wahan kay.

We need to get real, and voting rights won't make an ounce of difference to Pakistan, it is being misunderstood.

 

[peagle]

All successful countries allow multiple citizenships and give all rights to people with them. Look at Canada at usa at UK.
And look at Middle East who don’t give passports. You can clearly see no talent goes Middle East but goes west.
Many talented Pakistanis want to contribute to Pakistan if their rights are taken from them Pakistan will just hate them self the most



Yeah but I’ve never seen a Indian pm making programs like Rohsan Digital account and doing everything it takes to get the most remittances they can.
Pakistan runs on remittances. So we have a say in Pakistani politics.

India and other countries get far more remittances then Pakistan. These rohsan accounts are something to be ashamed about, its good he's doing it, but just think yaar, a country of 230 million having to do such things, this thinking is just not right.
Pakistan does not run on remittances, they are helping for the time being but if we want the best for Pakistan then we should not be thinking like this, we should be thinking how can we get to a stage where remittances don't matter. That won't happen by getting the right to vote.
They are two different topics, and politicians have sold a wrong message.

I honestly support Imran Khan, I don't care about the parties, but he's nothing in front of Pakistan. For Pakistan, the right to vote for foreign passport holders is a very bad idea.

 

[313ghazi]

I love the UK, I do feel British and Pakistani, both.

Me too. Don't get me wrong, the streets where I was born and raised will always be home - but I fear we might not always be welcome.

 

[peagle]

Me too. Don't get me wrong, the streets where I was born and raised will always be home - but I fear we might not always be welcome.

I hear you, But two wrongs don't make a right.

Mind you, I might be wrong and it might just turn out ok. But, from what I know, and what I have seen, I just think it will backfire, and the energies we should be spending in our home countries, will be spent on political involvement in Pakistan. it just doesn't make sense, because 230 million people know how to run their affairs. They are very capable.

Overseas Pakistanis should be given the vote, but not those who have foreign passports.

 

[313ghazi]

I hear you, But two wrongs don't make a right.

Mind you, I might be wrong and it might just turn out ok. But, from what I know, and what I have seen, I just think it will backfire, and the energies we should be spending in our home countries, will be spent on political involvement in Pakistan. it just doesn't make sense, because 230 million people know how to run their affairs. They are very capable.

Overseas Pakistanis should be given the vote, but not those who have foreign passports.

Idk bro. I think the expat community has a lot of value to add. We have a fresh perspective, we're lucky enough to live in functional countries and have seen models of success.

It's not to say our opinions are superior to those of people living in Pakistan but I think we add fresh ideas - something massively needed in Pakistan.

I do think though if you want a govt job or a position in politics you give up any foreign nationality. The opportunity to participate in governance should be considered a privilege and not something that you should be allowed to participate in half heartedly.

 

[Adonis]

ISLAMABAD: A proposed amendment in the civil service rules could affect as many as 20,000 civil servants, a parliamentary body was told on Thursday.

The matter came up before the Senate Standing Committee on Cabinet Secretariat during discussion on the ‘The Civil Servants (Amendment) Bill, 2021’ moved by Senator Afnan Ullah Khan in the sitting held on Jan 17, 2022,

The proposed amendment bars civil servants from holding dual nationality and suggests a timeline for dual national civil servants to relinquish their foreign nationality.

Minister of State for Parliamentary Affairs Ali Mohammad Khan was of view that government servants should not hold dual nationality during service because one person cannot be loyal to two countries at the same time.


A recent report submitted to the Supreme Court on dual nationality revealed that more than 22,000 top government officers are dual nationals. According to the report, 11,000 officers belong to police and bureaucracy.

Dual nationality holder officers are currently working in interior division, power division, aviation division, finance division, petroleum, commerce ministry, establishment division, information ministry, railway and others, according to the report.

Establishment Secretary Afzal Latif pointed out that this bar would affect a large number of civil servants, but maintained that it was essential to obtain the Ministry of Interior’s point of view on the amendment.

However, Committee Chairman Rana Maqbool Ahmad directed the cabinet division and interior secretaries to ensure their presence in the next meeting to convey their perspective on the amendment under discussion.

Meanwhile, during discussion on the recent decisions of the Central Selection Board, Senator Dilawar Khan asked the Establishment Division to provide reasons for the supersession of officers.

Minister Ali Mohammad Khan told the committee that the matter was sub juice before the Lahore High Court and according to the rules, could not be discussed in committee. However, Chairman Rana Maqbool Ahmad said there was no harm in giving a report.

When the Establishment Division secretary contended that the information was classified and that he was not at liberty to discuss it with the committee, the chairman asked him to present a report in the next meeting, which would be held in-camera in view of the classified nature of the information at hand.

During the meeting, Senator Zarqa Suharwardy Taimur stressed that the Cabinet Division should present a scorecard of officers who had been superseded. “It is Prime Minister Imran Khan foremost priority to enhance tax collection and the irony is that, as of right now, Federal Board of Revenue officers are sitting in high court for their promotion,” she added.

Published in Dawn, February 4th, 2022

Who care about "Should Not"??... If they are serious, make it "Must Not"..by making it a law.....similar to India where you have to give up your Indian passport to get any other citizenship....

 

[ejaz007]

Any one serving Pakistan in official capacity should not have dual nationality.

 

[peagle]

Idk bro. I think the expat community has a lot of value to add. We have a fresh perspective, we're lucky enough to live in functional countries and have seen models of success.

It's not to say our opinions are superior to those of people living in Pakistan but I think we add fresh ideas - something massively needed in Pakistan.

I do think though if you want a govt job or a position in politics you give up any foreign nationality. The opportunity to participate in governance should be considered a privilege and not something that you should be allowed to participate in half heartedly.

Again, I do agree with your basic premise, but we need to have red lines, I think we as overseas citizens are getting too involved, unless we are careful, it will backfire.

Its like when you get married, you take input from you family but there is a limit right, things move on and issues are handled differently.
We are not living there and yet demanding full equal rights as local citizens, it just doesn't make sense. I'm glad to hear your views about government participation etc.., but I fear with the vote, its just another step to ask for something else, then something else.
Before you know we'll have a prime minister born and raised in the UK or another country, going there to rule and retiring overseas, ruling by remote control, much of that already happens.

Its just s slippery slope, we have to be careful, hence the need for red lines. Where we say ok this is enough, we are happy, you guys run our country properly and keep the pressure, not keep asking for rights. because it's never ending.